[2014 TRC] Argentina v New Zealand in La Plata (27/09/2014)

[Bada-Bing!]

Is Julian Savea better than Lomu?

I think yes. He has 26 tries in 26 test matches and he's only 24. He can destroy the All Blacks' record try of Doug Howlett.

That is a good question. I also agree I think he is. I think he is a smarter player than Lomu and is not all about power, you can see that he is more of a team player with his offloads. E.g. The last try he set up for Kieran Read to score v SA last year at Ellis Park.

 

[Gavin]

Lomu wasn't all about power. He was a smooth runner and could offload. Lomu wasn't as good as Savea is when dealing with high balls.

Also remember Savea is fully fit, Lomu never was.

 

[Big Ewis]

I'd say considering the size of...well, everybody today in Rugby (flyhalves included) - what Savea is managing to do in this current modern Rugby context, running over ppl, bumping off great defenses and multiple defenders simultaneously, all that power and control and his ability to simply find the line and ground the ball; all that is at very least close to what Lomu would be doing today, if not a little better. He's quicker and faster, although perhaps not as physically dense. But Savea's try scoring rate is perfectly ridiculous, and yes loads of those have come from his only initiative, and is not a mere privilege from playing for such a great team. What's he going to be in a few years, 70 tries for 70 caps ?

Anyways, I believe it was Graham Henry who said some days ago the All-Blacks better lose a game soon. I'd agree with that. The logic is obvious: lose a game as a wakeup call before they feel invulnerable up until the World Cup and lose there when it's too late and counts the most. Maybe the All-Blacks need to lose a game in Europe next November. Losing to the Saffers will do them no good, no wrong next week. Trophy's already lifted, and a loss in South Africa is hardly a shocker, even for NZ. They need to lose to an "exotic" foe, one they don't run into very often. That would strengthen them a lot in view of the WC.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Lomu wasn't all about power. He was a smooth runner and could offload. Lomu wasn't as good as Savea is when dealing with high balls.

Also remember Savea is fully fit, Lomu never was.

I think Savea is a better all round player than Lomu was and the big differentiator is in the top two inches. I think he is more of a team player.

Yes, even back in the WC Lomu had his kidney problem and did not tell Laurie Maines. But what an impact he made back in 95; he redefined the role of winger, but I think Savea is taking it up another level. Certainly if he can produce performances like he did yesterday at next year's WC.

 

[Jaguares]

Jeez.. this Pumas team is absolute gash. 17 matches in the RC.. 0 Wins.

What a joke.

If they were not part of the tourny, the deciding match would have come down to the last match between the saffas vs NZ nxt weekend.

NZ would have 11 pts.
Saffas 7 points.

well done pumas. I expect 3 consecutive years of no wins in the RC. remarkable achievement.

And what about Samoa???!!!

OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh u are a tiny island and your best players wear the black jersey or the gold jersey. When I become King of England, I promise you that Samoa will play this tournament.



OOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhh All Blacks, come to Samoa pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

OOOOhhh OOOhhhhh You only think about money, money, money and money!

OOOOOOhhhhhhhh All Blacks, pleaseeeeeeeeee come to Samoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You steal our best players and still not come to play a fkg game to our island

Pleaseeeeeee All Blacks, come to Samoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

OOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh OOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh

MONEY MONEY and MONEY, you only think about MONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY

All Blacks, pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee come to Samoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

:cryy::cryy::cryy::cryy::cryy:

 

[Kiwi_]

Great to see Barrett learning to kick. Dagg has raised his game after being dropped, still not entirely convinced, Ben played him into the game nicely. Dagg is good under high ball though.

Argentina yet to get a win in the RC and if they weren't around this final game vs SA would be a decider, it's a shame really, it would have been an exciting fixture, it still will be a great game, just wish it was a decider. I don't think Argentina should have been put into the RC. I think they should have gone to a 7 nations.

I was not impressed with their players after we scored tries. One trying to punch the ball from Daggs hands aggressively (Why?) and the other deliberately foot tripping Savea. Poor sportsmanship, not impressed, flattened once again at home, bugger them if they're going to behave like that.

 

[marianodan]

LOL people blaming Argentina for the final match not being a decider. Did you all forgot that SA played so bad against us they couldn't win any BP? not our fault...

 

[Kiwi_]

LOL people blaming Argentina for the final match not being a decider. Did you all forgot that SA played so bad against us they couldn't win any BP? not our fault...

Played so bad, but won. If you're going to use that as a card to staying in the competition then you surely don't have much defense, Argentina are competitive, but will maybe cause a couple of upsets in the next few years if anything. They'll be a cobblestone in the road, tripping mainly Aussie and SA up, it'd have to take a truly woeful AB performance and the greatest Argentinian performance, even better than the 1985 21 – 21 draw to beat the AB's. Best of luck to the development of Argentinian Rugby and I do hope they can beat Aussie next week, I think they should be rated higher than 12th also. Certainly a top 10 side, mind you Italy is 15th or so..

 

[marianodan]

Played so bad, but won. If you're going to use that as a card to staying in the competition then you surely don't have much defense, Argentina are competitive, but will maybe cause a couple of upsets in the next few years if anything. They'll be a cobblestone in the road, tripping mainly Aussie and SA up, it'd have to take a truly woeful AB performance and the greatest Argentinian performance, even better than the 1985 21 – 21 draw to beat the AB's. Best of luck to the development of Argentinian Rugby and I do hope they can beat Aussie next week, I think they should be rated higher than 12th also. Certainly a top 10 side, mind you Italy is 15th or so..

Give us the chance to have a Super Rugby franchise for a couple of years and just then evaluate if we deserve to stay or not.

 

[LittleGuy]

LOL people blaming Argentina for the final match not being a decider. Did you all forgot that SA played so bad against us they couldn't win any BP? not our fault...

Yeah that was silly, they also seemingly forgot the tournament would have a different format without Argentina, likely back to three matches against one another and who knows what the standings would be likeheading into the final game.

 

[Big Ewis]

the guy Conrad's quoted, his post is just foolish and childish to be astronomically generous. No need to reply to such oxygen. But the more sensible ppl actually arguing the Pumas' place in this tournament I feel are very wrong. The Pumas are very much a Tier 1 side, despite being the only Tier 1 nation not to have Tier 1 privileges: i.e. a local pro league, or pro clubs. They've kept their reputation and Rugby culture alive through their only will.
Fuccking France are so dysfunctional, for all the money and fancy shiit they've got they couldn't seriously threaten the Wallabies once this past summer, and the Pumas with their complete shiit setup manage a competitive game the first time they go there, and that's after bullying the Springboks both on their turf and then back home. They've scared every team in this tournament, and even had some get heart-attacks on numerous occasions, both Aussies and Saffers will testify amply.

The fact that ppl only look at the win column is an age-old problem. But it is only that: a *problem*. Someone who thinks everything works in history book ***les or one-liners. *This country invades this one* *battle won by this nation* *this team wins World Cup*. If that's enough for you as a person, whoever you are, you belong in the gutter, in the shiit. That's your genuine level. Facts, reality happen on a far, far more complex platform. If you settle for just that, so be it. You're like me when I was a child.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

McCaw and Kaino were flying.

 

[Jaguares]

the guy Conrad's quoted, his post is just foolish and childish to be astronomically generous. No need to reply to such oxygen. But the more sensible ppl actually arguing the Pumas' place in this tournament I feel are very wrong. The Pumas are very much a Tier 1 side, despite being the only Tier 1 nation not to have Tier 1 privileges: i.e. a local pro league, or pro clubs. They've kept their reputation and Rugby culture alive through their only will.

Yeah but Draggs is angry, influenced by Duck, and he threatened me

 

[Larksea]

I think people are being harsh on Argentina.

This was a very polished All Black performance, they looked fitter, faster and more cohesive than any test yet this year IMO. There was hardly a weak link I think that All Plack performance would have put good points in any team in the world.

I kept expecting the AB's to really open up and maybe run in 6-7 trys but the Argi defense hang on till the end and they even came up with a well deserved try. They executed a lot of interesting moves to preak the defense in mid field and you would have to say it was a success in that regard, how long is it been since a team made that many line breaks against the AB's?

couple observations about the AB's

Mealamu was fantastic - his best test in years. Great to see but still, he has not played that well in a LONG time I dont expect him to all of a sudden start playing that well every week. Bit of a shame harris did not get longer on the field.

Fekitoa was superb, been a long time since Nonu has produced a game line that. Infact when you consider the amount he did on attack and defense I'd say Nonu has never had a test that good. Fekitoa's workrate is superb, not really Nonu's strong point.

I think this was a benchmark test for teh All Blacks. Fantastic gameplan, players worked their arse off and passes stuck generally, just a bit more accuracy and they could have run in a couple more.

They looked good going into a springbok test, going to be a massive task.

Even though there is nothing on it in terms of silverware, this next test against the springboks is again the biggest test of the year IMO. #1 vs #2 with #2 having the home advantage.

Huge, and personally I think we will have the right man at #10.

And maybe Fekitoa has a future at 12? 12 seems a harder position to fill for teh All Blacks compared to 13. Actually I think we have lots of options but on thing is experience. You have to pick a player and give them tests, I think it really takes 15-20+ tests to really start seeing what a player can do. It's rare for a player to come out and be great from test #1 like Carter, McCaw, Barrett or Kahui.

 

[Draggs]

Yeah but Draggs is angry, influenced by Duck, and he threatened me

Draggs is calm, just tired of hearing the same cliches.

 

[William18]

I reckon Savea is better than Lomu if he continues in this vein of form. It's worth remembering perhaps that Joe Rococoko set a similar try scoring pace before fading away later on his career. I think with Lomu there is a lot of mythology about him. He was a good player sure but his status is enhanced by the fact he was one of the first really big wingers and movies like Invictus. Savea for me has a better range of skills. I still think Doug Howlett is our greatest winger of all time.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I reckon Savea is better than Lomu if he continues in this vein of form. It's worth remembering perhaps that Joe Rococoko set a similar try scoring pace before fading away later on his career. I think with Lomu there is a lot of mythology about him. He was a good player sure but his status is enhanced by the fact he was one of the first really big wingers and movies like Invictus. Savea for me has a better range of skills. I still think Doug Howlett is our greatest winger of all time.

Go back and watch some youtube highlights of him in Super Rugby and the old NPC - he was ridiculous. He is almost underrated now because people cop out with the "Oh yeah he was just the first big guy so wouldn't be good anymore".. which I think is rubbish. When Savea came onto the scene he was hopeless under the high ball and couldn't kick - those were things he had to work on for a couple of years to get good at. Wingers in the 90's never really were as well rounded as they are now - the focus on those aspects didn't seem as important. Now imagine if Savea was 10-15kg bigger and faster; that is essentially what Jonah would be if he was the same age given equivalent training etc.

 

[nzlizard]

I reckon Savea is better than Lomu if he continues in this vein of form. It's worth remembering perhaps that Joe Rococoko set a similar try scoring pace before fading away later on his career. I think with Lomu there is a lot of mythology about him. He was a good player sure but his status is enhanced by the fact he was one of the first really big wingers and movies like Invictus. Savea for me has a better range of skills. I still think Doug Howlett is our greatest winger of all time.

Lomu was awesome, he played the game great and for a guy who was sick, you have to remember the game was so different back then.

Wingers in the 90's never really were as well rounded as they are now - the focus on those aspects didn't seem as important. Now imagine if Savea was 10-15kg bigger and faster; that is essentially what Jonah would be if he was the same age given equivalent training etc.

Dunno I thought Jeff Wilson was pretty well rounded as a winger, sure maybe not as good as todays best but still had an awesome skill set.

 

[nickdnz]

Well Savea has a chance to do something Lomu never has which is score a try against South Africa. Very interesting that neither of them have achieved this (yet in the case of Savea).

 

[Kiwi_]

Come on, it's a big mis-match.

All Blacks
Australia
South Africa

Then Argentina... just seems so random and out off place. They're good, but not THAT good.

I don't know, I'm a traditionalist and miss the tri-nations, classic test matches and 3 of them.. now we have a routine beating of the Pumas each season. Not my thing sorry.

As I said, they're no rubbish, but I don't think they're good enough to be in the competition just yet and would have been better of in the 7 Nations.