[2014 TRC] Argentina v New Zealand in La Plata (27/09/2014)

[nickdnz]

Meh. Playing Australia and South Africa three times a year each...well Australia four times. It was so stale.

Argentina not having a team in any major championship would be just pathetic. I want one day for a RWC to be a case of 20 teams having a solid chance of winning it. That will never happen if we exclude a team like Argentina who are one of the best 10 countries in the world with a population of 42 million...

 

[Kiwi_]

Stale? Are you kidding me.. Tri-Nations never got stale, only reason it got slightly boring was because the Aussies were so poor for a few years. They're finally coming back to being a top side.

What's boring is basically watching a routine win, but "having to be cautious because they might cause an upset" attitude before the game we have to always say to humble ourselves so if by some miracle they beat us we don't look like what we did in 99 and 07' World Cups.

 

[Chikwa]

That is a good question. I also agree I think he is. I think he is a smarter player than Lomu and is not all about power, you can see that he is more of a team player with his offloads. E.g. The last try he set up for Kieran Read to score v SA last year at Ellis Park.

Agreed he is a smarter player. The right choice of words . Lomu was also a skilful winger.But you can see that Savea thinks and thus is constantly improving .

 

[nzlizard]

Meh. Playing Australia and South Africa three times a year each...well Australia four times. It was so stale.

Kinda feel the same, Argentina will get there, playing Super rugby is the 1st step though, really hard for them to compete at the moment as I feel they need a super team, if they can get a fair few players together each week it will only improve their situation.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Great performance by NZ. Is it just me or is everyone getting pretty annoyed with the forward pass ruling. Its been outlined as clear as day and even ex players commentating don't get it. As for the crowd, how can you boo and get so annoyed by a ruling you don't understand?!

 

[nickdnz]

Stale? Are you kidding me.. Tri-Nations never got stale, only reason it got slightly boring was because the Aussies were so poor for a few years. They're finally coming back to being a top side.

What's boring is basically watching a routine win, but "having to be cautious because they might cause an upset" attitude before the game we have to always say to humble ourselves so if by some miracle they beat us we don't look like what we did in 99 and 07' World Cups.

Just have to agree to disagree on it's entertainment. Australia is always on the verge of being a great team, every year. For me playing any team three or more times a year makes it simply pretty boring. Between 2008 and 2011 we played Australia 15 times and South Africa 11. Not exactly a special occasion. Argentina will not develop if they are excluded, and I don't want to watch the same teams slug it out every year with no one new coming in. It's bad enough we have to play England 4 times this year...Either way, if the worst you suffer is having to be falsely modest, I'm not sure what you are complaining about..

 

[Kiwi_]

Just have to agree to disagree on it's entertainment. Australia is always on the verge of being a great team, every year. For me playing any team three or more times a year makes it simply pretty boring. Between 2008 and 2011 we played Australia 15 times and South Africa 11. Not exactly a special occasion. Argentina will not develop if they are excluded, and I don't want to watch the same teams slug it out every year with no one new coming in. It's bad enough we have to play England 4 times this year...Either way, if the worst you suffer is having to be falsely modest, I'm not sure what you are complaining about..

I feel Argentina's place would have been better served in the 7 nations. You're right about a lack of opposition to play. That's Rugby for you though, it's limited outside of the commonwealth, so there's not much competition. There's not much chance in even 20 years will Argentina be coming close to winning the competition. How ever I could see them win the 6/7 nations with in the decade, I feel like they'd develop more there and gain confidence more in their rugby instead of continuously losing.

 

[nickdnz]

I feel Argentina's place would have been better served in the 7 nations. You're right about a lack of opposition to play. That's Rugby for you though, it's limited outside of the commonwealth, so there's not much competition. There's not much chance in even 20 years will Argentina be coming close to winning the competition. How ever I could see them win the 6/7 nations with in the decade, I feel like they'd develop more there and gain confidence more in their rugby instead of continuously losing.

Well the 6 Nations has already expanded, and it is played so far exclusively within Europe. I would like to see it expand to take on Georgia at some point, or offer some kind of promotion relegation league. As Argentina is in the Southern Hemisphere it makes more sense we take it on. They're still a side with some important issues, mainly no professional domestic league (I feel one Super Rugby team probably isn't enough of a long term solution..), players playing in Europe with some difficult conditioning limited time together etc - so there is issues they do have to deal with. But excluding them and not doing our part to grow the game I feel is just too insular way of looking.

 

[Big Ewis]

That's right, Julian Savea still hasn't scored against the Boks (yet). Was just looking at that some days ago.




He just needs to get Wales and South Africa, and he'll have scored against all Tier 1 opposition for NZ. EIGHT tries against England (should be 9, ay Ben Smith ?), same against Argentina. Let's see if he can add South Africa to the buffet next weekend. Julian is one hungry ogre, always.

 

[Larksea]

as far as NZ or world wingers go IMO nothing beats Rokocoko in his prime, not even Lomu. Savea has a fantastic scoring rate but at the ~25 test mark Rokocoko was actually a long way ahead. Just a shame it only really lasted a few years.

Seemed it was just joes body type, his fijian genetics. I remember Ted saying that Joe could not train too much because he would put on too much muscle and it slowed him down.

I cant help but feel its going to be really hard for Savea to maintain his strikerate, wingers seem to peak very young he's 24 now I think by the time he's 26 he wont be averaging a try a match anymore, I think he will need to slim down to maintain some pace but the good thing is his hands and skill set are superb and the subtle parts of his game are improving with experience.

 

[Da Grappla]

I'm so sure no NZ/SA/AUS player take Argentine as if they were watering down the tournament.

 

[Big Ewis]

as far as NZ or world wingers go IMO nothing beats Rokocoko in his prime, not even Lomu. Savea has a fantastic scoring rate but at the ~25 test mark Rokocoko was actually a long way ahead. Just a shame it only really lasted a few years.

Seemed it was just joes body type, his fijian genetics. I remember Ted saying that Joe could not train too much because he would put on too much muscle and it slowed him down.

I cant help but feel its going to be really hard for Savea to maintain his strikerate, wingers seem to peak very young he's 24 now I think by the time he's 26 he wont be averaging a try a match anymore, I think he will need to slim down to maintain some pace but the good thing is his hands and skill set are superb and the subtle parts of his game are improving with experience.

well I'm not sure about that, Larynxy. It seems founded to say big wingers will wither away as they age at a rapid rate, faster than a smaller/slighter winger. But Savea does it with such ease right now, even if he slows down gradually in the next 3-4 years he'll still be an enormous handful for anyone and will continue to find and cross the line, no doubt. It's completely impossible, barring injuries, to perceive him playing and just not scoring atm. Whether his rate finally falls off that 1-per-game ride he's on...maybe. But he can just as easily score a hat trick in any given test.
Let's see if he manages to do what Lomu couldn't against the Boks this weekend, and let's see his appetite level in Europe this November. He's particularly aroused when playing England, maybe Twickenham can make his tummy growl again. Also got a chance to create an account in Cardiff and get that meter started against the dudes in red.

 

[Kiwi_]

The AB's have and always will have superb wingers complimented by amazing back lines and good ball from the forwards.

My top 5 wingers;

1.Jonah Lomu
2.David Campese
3.Shane Williams
4.Jeff Wilson
5.Byran Habana

 

[donmcdazzle]

as far as NZ or world wingers go IMO nothing beats Rokocoko in his prime, not even Lomu. Savea has a fantastic scoring rate but at the ~25 test mark Rokocoko was actually a long way ahead. Just a shame it only really lasted a few years.

Seemed it was just joes body type, his fijian genetics. I remember Ted saying that Joe could not train too much because he would put on too much muscle and it slowed him down.

I know Roks scored a lot of tries, but he was nowhere near the player Lomu was. Rupeni in his prime was more devastating than Roks.

 

[Kiwi_]

I know Roks scored a lot of tries, but he was nowhere near the player Lomu was. Rupeni in his prime was more devastating than Roks.

Lol you might as well site Joeli Vidiri as well.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think people are being harsh on Argentina.

This was a very polished All Black performance, they looked fitter, faster and more cohesive than any test yet this year IMO. There was hardly a weak link I think that All Plack performance would have put good points in any team in the world.

This. +1
Argentina are building into this tournament and the money that comes from it can help them to grow more grass roots in their game at home.
The Pumas will start to pick up better results against other teams as time goes by as they benefit from playing the big three regularly.

 

[nickdnz]

as far as NZ or world wingers go IMO nothing beats Rokocoko in his prime, not even Lomu. Savea has a fantastic scoring rate but at the ~25 test mark Rokocoko was actually a long way ahead. Just a shame it only really lasted a few years.

Seemed it was just joes body type, his fijian genetics. I remember Ted saying that Joe could not train too much because he would put on too much muscle and it slowed him down.

I cant help but feel its going to be really hard for Savea to maintain his strikerate, wingers seem to peak very young he's 24 now I think by the time he's 26 he wont be averaging a try a match anymore, I think he will need to slim down to maintain some pace but the good thing is his hands and skill set are superb and the subtle parts of his game are improving with experience.

I agree with you that for the All Blacks from 2002-2003 Rokocoko was just unbeatable. I hope Savea continues, the good thing is it seems players can last a bit better than they used to with better conditioning. Scary that Cullen had pretty much retired from the All Blacks only two years after where Savea is now..

 

[nzlizard]

Scary that Cullen had pretty much retired from the All Blacks only two years after where Savea is now..

He didn't retire, that ****in **** faced mother ****er John Mitchell who is the most piece of **** coach in the world couldn't coach good players and choose to play wings and centres at fullback instead of the best fullback in the country.

 

[Jack Reacher]

He didn't retire, that ****in **** faced mother ****er John Mitchell who is the most piece of **** coach in the world couldn't coach good players and choose to play wings and centres at fullback instead of the best fullback in the country.

Looking back, Cullens best days were behind him at that point. Muliaina was the form fullback but for Mitchell to select Ben Blair and then from memory didn't Ben Atiga (can't remember his name) get a call up too?!

 

[nickdnz]

He didn't retire, that ****in **** faced mother ****er John Mitchell who is the most piece of **** coach in the world couldn't coach good players and choose to play wings and centres at fullback instead of the best fullback in the country.

Well, yes. I'm aware of what happened with Cully, but more that his time was up from the All Blacks very young (and he had substantial knee injuries). Mitchell did in fact select fullbacks at fullback with Muliaina and Leon MacDonald - but there was still probably plenty of room for Cullen and Mehrtens over Ben Blair, Caleb Ralph and Ben Atiga (who got a total of 6 minutes playing time)..