[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[McTallshort]

Ashton had his many chances with England but did not take them. Yes he is playing well for Sarries and I wish him luck, Andy Goode has always performed at club level but you could never justify giving him more caps than he got.

Also on May, I am not convinced yet and the same goes for Yarde but its time to move on from Ashton.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Additionally Ashton never kept his cool in international matches. He made a lot of mistakes and just didn't seem to have the mentally for internationally rugby.

He is a great poacher but to be effective at international level you need to have more than one string to your bow.

Going forward I think yarde is a dead cert, the rest will be finding someone to partner him on the right wing. I guess that's what we will do in New Zealand.

 

[Patchey]

Well....well....screw you !!!!

Edit on peats question My question to you would be what does he have over Yarde, May, Nowell or Watson?
May I am not sold on yet, his running is lateral (which isn't bad in itself) but leaves him isolated quite often and you see our players don't know what he is going to do next. Yarde is actually a better winger from what I've seen and would play 11. Nowell is okay but he is an full back playing wing, he did score a try but in that Italy game I would have preferred Ashton to play as against weak defences in an attacking game he does score a lot of tries, he isn't as good defensively but Wade isn't as good defensively but his attacking game is what we want, you don't pick wingers on defence. I have seen enough of Watson so I don't really know much abut him, I see he has some serious wheels but I don't know anything about his step, Kicking or handling

Well I know I'm insightful but I'm not quite poster of the year material...

I take your point about Nowell maybe being more suited to fullback, although I'd rather have him be out fullback on the wing that sticking Mike Brown there. I don't buy the idea of Wade being poor defensivly. Yes he is small so will always be vulnerable to kicks but he hasn't really shown any lack of courage or ability when it comes to tackling one on one to be honest.

I like how this thread has morphed into a collective Ashton theme group therapy session. This can only be a good thing for us all.

 

[TheSaffycen]

May made more ground forwards off less runs that Nowell, beating more defenders in the process. Both players were far from perfect, but were basically useful in that they could be relied upon to pose a threat ball in hand and make things happen.

May is an interesting one, he has a lovely step off his left foot and some real pace but he never backs himself in the right situation. He is very green and maybe with more experience he might know when to cut inside and when to pin your ears back and go down the line. His running is predictably unpredictable, in a lot of instances if he had just gone down the line he may have scored.

The first run is fantastic, apart from Wade I don't think any of our wingers could have done that. The second time if he runs down the line Hogg is missing the tackle no matter what, he cuts inside and it means he gets done by the cover tackle and we lose the ball. He is electric but he isn't very effective, Yarde and Roko would be in interesting combo, power and pace whilst not being so erratic that their team mates will know where he is going

 

[Patchey]

The first run is fantastic, apart from Wade I don't think any of our wingers could have done that. The second time if he runs down the line Hogg is missing the tackle no matter what, he cuts inside and it means he gets done by the cover tackle and we lose the ball. He is electric but he isn't very effective, Yarde and Roko would be in interesting combo, power and pace whilst not being so erratic that their team mates will know where he is going

Thats a fairly exciting idea. Like, really exciting the more I think about it.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Thats a fairly exciting idea. Like, really exciting the more I think about it.

I would love to take credit for it but it was RATS who reminded me of him.

I don't buy the idea of Wade being poor defensivly. Yes he is small so will always be vulnerable to kicks but he hasn't really shown any lack of courage or ability when it comes to tackling one on one to be honest.

I'm sure he doesn't lack courage but he lacks size, now I will sound like Big Ewis here but he hasn't got the mass when tackling somebody to even slow them down. Look at kuridrani vs lions he literally throws him out of the way. He also gets in the way Kearney who would have made the tackle. But I would still have him in and around the team as I pick wingers on attack before anything else, and he is the best that we have.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I haven't seen that Lions game for a while - but I distinctly remember feeling that it was Kearney at fault positionally that caused the issue.

 

[TheSaffycen]

First clip, Wade gets lost then goes high on Kuridrani who throws him into Kearney

 

[Patchey]

Looks like Hogg should have stayed out for that one to be honest. God that was a poor game!

I guess the really issue as that we just don't know. Wade hasn't looked out of place defending at a domestic level but as his international experience is limited to this game (if that counts), a tour game in SA and a could of tests against an under strength Argentina game when England were bossing them at the set piece he's never really been tested properly. He's also ver unlikely to make this tour, so we'll have to wait until the EOYT at the earliest to see if he can hold his own.

 

[ratsapprentice]

...now to me, Kearney was in a position to help complete the tackle and didn't.
And prior to that Hogg should have trusted the man inside him to make the tackle and didn't - that allowed Mogg to offload to Kuridrani in masses of space.
You could argue that a bigger man would have completed the tackle - and you'd possibly be right* - on the other hand you could argue that a bigger man wouldn't have caught up with him to make the tackle in the first place.

Either way that whole game was a cluster****.

*although Kuridrani's fend on Joel Tomkins in the Autumn would suggest that's not necessarily true.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Tomkins is bloody useless and thankfully is going back to league.
Right the time has come to do a little comparison of the wingers we have available

Wade- Best attacking winger we have, defensively I get told he is good but I still have doubts, obviously I can be wrong.
Yarde- Very good all-rounder, powerful and can beat players, he has the 11 shirt in his hands really.
Nowell- Didn't do badly in the 6 nations. Defensively can't be faulted though he is a 15, if he kept the 14 shirt I wouldn't be unhappy but he isn't the best candidate.
May- His running isn't effective and he didn't manage to score a try. Maybe with more time he will grow into intl' rugby but Yarde looks like the man for the 11 shirt.
Rokoduguni- Explosive Fijian is English qualified and looks like a real contender. Apparently now 103kg and he is so powerful and can step with ease, The guy I would go for on the right wing. He has no real weakness and would play well if given the chance.
Ashton- The only guy here who has showed he can score tries at international level. Went 11 games without a try for England and had more than his fair share of chances, since he has been dropped has played better for Saracens. His poor performances for England over the last 2 years have really counted against him for good reason.
Banahan- The greatest winger we have in terms of technical ability. Hasn't been picked for England due to us not finding a shirt that can fit him, if he gets into the team we will easily win the World Cup.

 

[Toby Sweeney]

The most important thing is to put are strongest defending winger against savea, whatever you say about wade there is no way he is stopping Savea full tilt. As for May call me when he does anything at international level, you could give him 30 caps and he wouldn't learn to run straight.

Saffycen: couldn't agree more about Tomkins, was never any good we are far better of with Bosch.

 

[Patchey]

Tomkins is bloody useless and thankfully is going back to league.
Right the time has come to do a little comparison of the wingers we have available

Wade- Best attacking winger we have, defensively I get told he is good but I still have doubts, obviously I can be wrong.
Yarde- Very good all-rounder, powerful and can beat players, he has the 11 shirt in his hands really.
Nowell- Didn't do badly in the 6 nations. Defensively can't be faulted though he is a 15, if he kept the 14 shirt I wouldn't be unhappy but he isn't the best candidate.
May- His running isn't effective and he didn't manage to score a try. Maybe with more time he will grow into intl' rugby but Yarde looks like the man for the 11 shirt.
Rokoduguni- Explosive Fijian is English qualified and looks like a real contender. Apparently now 103kg and he is so powerful and can step with ease, The guy I would go for on the right wing. He has no real weakness and would play well if given the chance.
Ashton- The only guy here who has showed he can score tries at international level. Went 11 games without a try for England and had more than his fair share of chances, since he has been dropped has played better for Saracens. His poor performances for England over the last 2 years have really counted against him for good reason.
Banahan- The greatest winger we have in terms of technical ability. Hasn't been picked for England due to us not finding a shirt that can fit him, if he gets into the team we will easily win the World Cup.

I see what you did there with Banahan you sly dog. You won't get me that easily...

I think you're right on Wade through to Roko, although maybe a little harsh on Nowell. As for Ashton, yes be has score a lot more tries (in a lot more games) than any of the other options, but I really can't think of any tries he scored that you wouldn't expect any half decent international to take.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I think you're right on Wade through to Roko, although maybe a little harsh on Nowell. As for Ashton, yes be has score a lot more tries (in a lot more games) than any of the other options, but I really can't think of any tries he scored that you wouldn't expect any half decent international to take.

Have you seen his try vs Australia ?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

In that lions game wade was always in the rucks, which is pointless.

At least tualigi is a rock in the rucks.

Wade looked Lost that game.

 

[Patchey]

The length of pitch try of the year scoregasm? Yeah, I think I nearly cried with joy watching it in a pub at the time.

Its an awesome try but if you look at it all he really needed was speed and to cut inside properly so the fullback couldn't cover. Have you seen how fast May is? He defiantly would have been able to do that. Same with for Wade, Yarde and Nowell IMO. Someone like Cueto probably not though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

In that lions game wade was always in the rucks, which is pointless.

At least tualigi is a rock in the rucks.

Agreed, let's drop Wade and have Tuilagi on the wing instead.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Agreed, let's drop Wade and have Tuilagi on the wing instead.

You missed the point Olyy you silly sale plonker.

Wade was in every other ruck that game, the only other English back I have seen get in the rucks that much is Tuilagi something I think he needs to cut out. But at least Tuilagi is strong enough at the breakdown unlike Wade who is useless there.

I was just trying to say that Wade in that whole game wasn't doing his game plan and it was a bad game to judge him upon.

Although I think Tuilagi may do a better job defending Savea than Wade.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Its an awesome try but if you look at it all he really needed was speed and to cut inside properly so the fullback couldn't cover. Have you seen how fast May is? He defiantly would have been able to do that. Same with for Wade, Yarde and Nowell IMO. Someone like Cueto probably not though.

I believe Wade would have scored that try. Yarde could have scored that try. Nowell isn't that fast, maybe he would have scored it but I think Mitchell would have got him. Nowell didn't capitalise on his massive break against Wales, I don't remember him making another large break in the championship. May would not have scored that try, he would have run across the try line trying to look for a gap Being honest I don't think he would have scored the try as I don't think he is a natural finisher, watch the Ireland and Wales games, he didn't manage to put away any chance he was given, if Ashton had done that then everyone would be up in arms about it ! Rokoduguni might have been able to score that try, but you can't say May definitely would have scored that try.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Rokoduguni would have definitely scored that try.