2013 European Nations Cup / Six Nations B

[norcalbuff]

Belgium's rise is not like Spain's last year where they just capped a bunch of French players with Spanish grandparents to improve their team. They have done excellent grassroots development over the last decade and have had very good results against the ENC 1A teams at the age grade levels so it should be no surprise that they can start to match the ENC 1A teams as those players start to filter through to the senior level. The way they have improved is something all of the lower level ENC nations should look to as a blueprint.

 

[Toko_11]

What do you mean ?

that every country learned to use France's power to their advantage.. especially their neighbors. I wonder when Switzerland and Holland are going to discover rugby..
also the attendance was impressive

 

[Nielsch]

that every country learned to use France's power to their advantage.. especially their neighbors. I wonder when Switzerland and Holland are going to discover rugby..
also the attendance was impressive

This might have been true for spain in the past, but not so much for belgium. Like norcalbuff said, in belgium it is much more about grassroots development. A lot of the french named players in the belgian squad are actually belgiums playing in the lower french divisions, not french players with belgian grandparents.

for the netherlands it's too late. A couple of decades ago we could have capped a lot of south african players with dutch (grand)parents. Not anymore though.

 

[DavidLg]

that every country learned to use France's power to their advantage.. especially their neighbors. I wonder when Switzerland and Holland are going to discover rugby..
also the attendance was impressive

come on ! I will not repeat the post of norcalbuff, he said it all.
And France also owe us a big one because as far as i know Vincent Debatty was born and raised in Belgium.

 

[LittleGuy]

First of all we have to admit that Georgia didn't play at it's best level.
Nevertheless the level reached actually is the result of 8 years of hard work at each level of the national teams from the youngsters to the first team. Some young belgian players are gaining experience in the french championship (even if none of them are at the top 14 level) and the team is increasing it's level year after year.

When I saw Canada play Belgium in November of 2010 I could already see they had the makings of a decent Tier Three side. They had no problems with the basics and were very competetive in the physical apsects of the game. It's certainly true that Georgia didn't play to their usual standards and conditions and the fact that the match devolved into a punch up on several occasions didn't help.

Still I think Belgium could be very competitive in the two year span upcoming relegation may be avoided, Portugal, Russia and Spain won't be able to take their side lightly after this.

 

[Toko_11]

come on ! I will not repeat the post of norcalbuff, he said it all.
And France also owe us a big one because as far as i know Vincent Debatty was born and raised in Belgium.

Ok well I might have been misinformed and i didn't read norcalbubuffs comment til after i wrote mine. anyway Belgium has Great potential because of their location.. they wouldn't have as tough of a road and challenge as Romania/Georgia and to the lesser degree Russia... I think Belgium, if the game takes off there would make it into 6N a lot faster than Georgia can. because of economy location and.. well being more affiliated with western Europe than Rom or Geo will ever be. 1 example... some years ago french teams(not top14 but decent teams) agreed to play friendlies with Georgian counterparts but after evaluating the expenses Georgians decided that it would be very hard to travel there once a decade..let alone every year.. Belgium will never have those kind of problems because you could take a bus to Toulouse from Brussels while enojoying the ride... from Tbilisi however you would have to pass a front-line a minefield, Russian Cop checkpoints and an exploded atomic station before you even get to Germany... Airplane is not an option i guess

 

[MunichRugger]

Belgium's rise is not like Spain's last year where they just capped a bunch of French players with Spanish grandparents to improve their team. They have done excellent grassroots development over the last decade and have had very good results against the ENC 1A teams at the age grade levels so it should be no surprise that they can start to match the ENC 1A teams as those players start to filter through to the senior level. The way they have improved is something all of the lower level ENC nations should look to as a blueprint.

I'm sure they are on track and doing a great job, but it's not what makes the difference here yet. Both German and Belgium youth teams (actually they played the final in 2012 U18 1B against each other and both missed promotion to elite level) have been doing great the last years, but it will take some more years, untill this shines through. I have no doubt Germany would still get trashed like they were last time for example. So good grassroots is the key, but not the reason for this narrow loss.

 

[powerfulduck]

Belgium have also got a really good crop of young soccer players that have come through in the last few years. How is grass roots sport organised? as it certainly looks like they might be onto something

 

[Tonga_rugby]

Belgium v Georgia

During the opening round of the ENC in 2013. Belgium and Georgia get in a massive fight in just the second minute of the match.

There were a number of players who could have been red carded and will be likely cited especially Georgian flanker Vito Kolelishvili who unleashed a barrage of punches on Belgium wing Thibaut Andre.

But in the end, the referee ended the match of both team's tighthead props Davit Kubriashvili and Maxime Jadot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4mg38vKrcU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAtFDc3H3RM&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zbhG7soDQc&feature=player_embedded

Georgian players will be punished by Fira-Aer?

 

[powerfulduck]

Georgian No 6 really goes to town on that guy wow

 

[Toko_11]

It was a stupid Fight if u saw Georgian forums during the game most of the people had negative response and thought number 6 should be ousted from the starting lineup until he improves on his discipline... but I guess GRU has different opinion.. The reason behind most of this fights Georgians have is simple.. its an unwritten law in Georgian rugby.. if you notice that ref is being subjective and makes decisions that is supportive to your opposition then you start a huge fight.. because you cant hit the ref you can only punish the opposition... so next time if you are playing against Georgians and ref is on your side.. you can be sure a couple of fists are going to be thrown your way... just hope that n6 isn't playing

 

[psychic duck]

Vito Kolelishvili is approaching Cudmore levels of indiscipline though. That's his third incident involving punching within a year.

He is a good player, especially in the tackle, but Sutiashvili may need to come in the side instead just to make sure Kolelishvili learns that he is becoming a liability.

 

[profitius]

I'm sure they are on track and doing a great job, but it's not what makes the difference here yet. Both German and Belgium youth teams (actually they played the final in 2012 U18 1B against each other and both missed promotion to elite level) have been doing great the last years, but it will take some more years, untill this shines through. I have no doubt Germany would still get trashed like they were last time for example. So good grassroots is the key, but not the reason for this narrow loss.

Good to see Belgium and Germany work on their youth teams. They will reap what they sow as long as they keep the players playing at a high enough level and get more media attention (promotion/relegation to a 8 nations Euro competition would see to this).

Theres a German center playing for one of the top school teams in Leinster called Sebastian Fromm. I heard he is a decent prospect.

 

[DavidLg]

The reason behind most of this fights Georgians have is simple.. its an unwritten law in Georgian rugby.. if you notice that ref is being subjective and makes decisions that is supportive to your opposition then you start a huge fight.. because you cant hit the ref you can only punish the opposition... so next time if you are playing against Georgians and ref is on your side.. you can be sure a couple of fists are going to be thrown your way...

They are quite fast to decide that the ref is not on their side, the fight broke out after 3 minutes only...

 

[Toko_11]

They are quite fast to decide that the ref is not on their side, the fight broke out after 3 minutes only...

No this was was more like a welcome to ENC type of fight everyone must get at least one right ?....

 

[DavidLg]

No this was was more like a welcome to ENC type of fight everyone must get at least one right ?....

Oups sorry, thanks to everybody then

 

[dragos03]

It was a stupid Fight if u saw Georgian forums during the game most of the people had negative response and thought number 6 should be ousted from the starting lineup until he improves on his discipline... but I guess GRU has different opinion.. The reason behind most of this fights Georgians have is simple.. its an unwritten law in Georgian rugby.. if you notice that ref is being subjective and makes decisions that is supportive to your opposition then you start a huge fight.. because you cant hit the ref you can only punish the opposition... so next time if you are playing against Georgians and ref is on your side.. you can be sure a couple of fists are going to be thrown your way... just hope that n6 isn't playing

Looking at the comments of the Youtube videos of the fight, it seems that almost all Georgian fans approve the fight and they are proud of it.

Also, since the Georgians seem to start a fight (although usually not on this scale) in almost every match, does this mean the referee is always against them? I guess the organized booing at the Georgian home games directed at the opposition is also somehow connected to the referee and not rudeness?

I am curious: how common are fights between players in the Georgian rugby championship?

 

[psychic duck]

Looking at the comments of the Youtube videos of the fight, it seems that almost all Georgian fans approve the fight and they are proud of it.

Also, since the Georgians seem to start a fight (although usually not on this scale) in almost every match, does this mean the referee is always against them? I guess the organized booing at the Georgian home games directed at the opposition is also somehow connected to the referee and not rudeness?

I am curious: how common are fights between players in the Georgian rugby championship?

Firstly YouTube commenters are morons, and there are some real stupid anti-Georgian views on those videos as well.

Secondly, people seem to have forgotten that Belgium were as much to blame.

Thirdly, Georgia hardly "start a fight in almost every match". When exactly was the last time? I don't remember one at all last year. (Don't say the Romania match as Romania started that by pulling on the guys hair). I bet most of the people saying that don't even watch Georgia, they are just saying that based on this.

Fourthly, I think some nations who are lecturing Georgia on this like they have the moral high ground need to stop it. As if their countries don't have certain individuals who get in fights and they don't have big fights themselves. Look at these fights both from within a period of a year, yet I don't remember anybody lecturing these teams or the countries like they are doing Georgia, and saying they start a fight every week. And these are just within the past year.

Every country has had a fight like this, and to be honest, a brainless scrap up like that where most are missing punches, aren't as bad as cynical deliberate and thought out attempts to injure players like what happened to BOD in 2005.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Exd7nqV5-cE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe><iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HmPbtEvAjq0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

 

[DavidLg]

The Spanish selection for Belgium-Spain
Corey Smith (Ciencias Sevilla/Espagne), Jaike Carter (C.R.El Salvador/Espagne), Daniel Marron (C.R.El Salvador/Espagne), César Sempere (C.R.El Salvador/Espagne), Francisco Usero (Universidade de Vigo/Espagne), Juan Anaya (Rugby Atletico Madrid/Espagne), Santiago Fernandez (Alcobendas Rugby/Espagne), Mathew Cook (C.R.La Vila/Espagne), Javier Carrion (C.R.La Vila/Espagne), Joan Tudela (Ordizia R.E./Espagne), Jon Magunazelaia (Gernika R.T./Espagne), Oier Garmendia (Hernani C.R.E./Espagne), Matias Tudela (Tatami R.C./Espagne), Jesus Moreno (USA Limoges/France), Jesus Recuerda (Lille/France), Gauthier Minguillon (Bègles-Bordeaux/France), Lionel Pardo (Béziers/France), Grégory Maiquez (Bourg-en-Bresse/France), Joe Hutchinson (Bourg-en-Bresse/France), Jaime Nava (Bourg-en-Bresse/France), Anibal Fernando Bonan (US Bagneraris/France), David Gurgenadze (Army RC/Géorgie)

 

[white bear]

I have not joined the forum, FIRA, but I'm wildly angry, so I will answer here. People for Western Europe seems to live in a different reality, and do not understand the differences in climate.

"ENC match in Russia called off at the last minute when Spain refused to play on a frozen pitch once?

RWC 2003 Qual (pre-repechage) 9 Nov 2002 @ Monino (Moscow Area)

Thanks FR, and the climate of Moscow for Nov is similar to that in March according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Moscow
The main advantage being that daylight hours are longer in March and the end of the month a bit more favourable than early Nov, if it were possible to arrange that."

I will answer the points that most fully realized picture.

1. Rugby season in Russia from May to October. It is not a coincidence, as the rest of the long winter. This year, out of luck in the final championship game in Krasnoyarsk in late October, there was snow and frost-10C.
2. Clubs have small stadiums, where the grass is not heated. They do not have a lot of money to have the stadiums and fields as advanced football clubs.
3. Because we have a long and very cold winter (there are temperatures of 20-30C and more) are very grass suffers, it put a lot of money in the winter (thousands of dollars) to the spring football clubs could play.
4. The annual budget of the Rugby Federation of Russia - 2 million (annual turnover professional rugby less than 15 million euros).
5. The annual budget of the Football Federation - more than 100 million euros (annual turnover of professional football in Russia 2 billion).
6. The field is always worse in March after the winter than in November - it will tell you every agriculturist in Russia.
7. Even if a game of Russian roulette and put our games in March in Moscow and other cities, the probability of cancellation due to climate change is more than 50%.
But it is still useless because football club does not give the stadium in March, April or November not to spoil dear lawn.

Some football matches in Russia play in -10, the maximum in-15C, but do not forget that football is played only kicks in rugby without hands can not. And not help attract fans.

Comedy movie about football in March.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjhheaGIrxg