cyRil
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Not caught much of the Wales games unfortunately - from what I have seen Morgan has looked great and Walker has looked shocking.
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Help Support The Rugby Forum :
2012 IRB Junior World Championship
- Thread starter William18
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Darwin
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Wow, this tournament has been interesting! Argentina continued on their winning ways, and it is great to see them in the semis. It was interesting to see France so comprehensively beat Australia. South Africa did enough to get through to the semis - I'd say they are now definitely favourites to win the tournament, given that they are at home, and are starting to show some strong form. Wales certainly didn't let the victory over NZ go to their heads!
As for New Zealand, I thought their performance against Fiji was pathetic (and that is being kind). They struggled with basic rugby skills - they made numerous errors at the lineout, their passing was shocking - I lost count of the number of times they passes miles behind the player, their handling was poor, they hand no idea what to do when Fiji put up a high ball (hint: watching it bounce / Fiji regain the ball is not the correct option) and even their defense was weak. Their first half performance was particularly poor - for some bizarre reason they thought it would be a great idea to play a mile behind the advantage line. If they had played that way against a top team they would have been played out of the game before half-time.
There were a few bright spots for NZ however:
- The scrum was completely dominant (though it was only Fiji).
- Hugh Blake was exceptional at flanker once he came on the field (for an injured Llyod). He must have forced 4-5 turnovers at the breakdown: he needs to be starting at 7 in the next match, though the NZ coaches are left with a dilemma as Heenan (who started at 7 this match) is a co-captain of the team. One option would be to start dual opensides, but I'd prefer to see Heenan on the bench.
- West had a pretty good game at 10. His kicking (both at goal, and in general play) was pretty good, and he looked dangerous with ball in hand (he setup one try with a brilliant run).
- Emery again looked classy (though not as good as last game), while Keresoma looked good again in his limited opportunities. Not quite sure what to make of Proctor at 15 - his handling let him down a couple of times, but he is very dangerous with ball in hand (though is a complete ball hog!).
Can't say I'm overly hopeful of the NZ team winning the tournament this year - we have (just) done enough to get into the semis, but will need to lift our performance level immensely if we want to (a) beat Wales, and (b) win the final.
As for New Zealand, I thought their performance against Fiji was pathetic (and that is being kind). They struggled with basic rugby skills - they made numerous errors at the lineout, their passing was shocking - I lost count of the number of times they passes miles behind the player, their handling was poor, they hand no idea what to do when Fiji put up a high ball (hint: watching it bounce / Fiji regain the ball is not the correct option) and even their defense was weak. Their first half performance was particularly poor - for some bizarre reason they thought it would be a great idea to play a mile behind the advantage line. If they had played that way against a top team they would have been played out of the game before half-time.
There were a few bright spots for NZ however:
- The scrum was completely dominant (though it was only Fiji).
- Hugh Blake was exceptional at flanker once he came on the field (for an injured Llyod). He must have forced 4-5 turnovers at the breakdown: he needs to be starting at 7 in the next match, though the NZ coaches are left with a dilemma as Heenan (who started at 7 this match) is a co-captain of the team. One option would be to start dual opensides, but I'd prefer to see Heenan on the bench.
- West had a pretty good game at 10. His kicking (both at goal, and in general play) was pretty good, and he looked dangerous with ball in hand (he setup one try with a brilliant run).
- Emery again looked classy (though not as good as last game), while Keresoma looked good again in his limited opportunities. Not quite sure what to make of Proctor at 15 - his handling let him down a couple of times, but he is very dangerous with ball in hand (though is a complete ball hog!).
Can't say I'm overly hopeful of the NZ team winning the tournament this year - we have (just) done enough to get into the semis, but will need to lift our performance level immensely if we want to (a) beat Wales, and (b) win the final.
ZeFrenchy
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Bookies still give NZ as favourites. They pay 8/15, which means they give you about a 65% chance of winning the whole thing. I sort of agree with them.
I'm quite pleased with how Les bleuets played. Tries were all quite spectacular, backs can run, forwards always ran good support lines, getting more than a fair share of touches and securing quick ball. Pleased with Poirot and the hooker, plus the backrow and the back three. No. 11 had a nice Dominici-Clerc thing going on.
What I liked the most, whenever they broke the line, they always seemed to know where their support player was, giving a lot of continuity to the game.
I agree with Darwin, I'd be pleasently suprised if New Zealand won it. Can't remember a more average group from New Zealand. What I'd give for a Beuden Barrett or Julian Savea in this team. Also I'm not sold on Keresoma. He's hardly been anywhere near the worst of the wingers, but he has been relatively unspectacular compared to the hype. Had a few handling errors and doesn't seem to have as much out and out gas as I'd hope'd he would.
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Darwin & nickdnz while I understand your disillusionment (that's what happens when you've been spoiled with excellence for years) but I would still be very surprised if they didn't win it... hope not though, c'Mon the boyo's.
Darwin
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What the team really needs is a TJ Perenara - someone to organize the backline so the aren't running like headless chickens....
I don't think Keresoma has been outstanding, but he has looked the most dangerous of our wings by far. I'm not sure whether he has that much top-end speed, but he has great acceleration, and explosive power (not that he is that big). He has been given rubbish ball to work with thus far, but I think if he got some quality ball in a bit of space he could be dangerous (Proctor likewise could be dangerous with some space) - time will tell I suppose!
I think New Zealand will still enter the match vs Wales as favourites, but if they play against Wales like they did against Fiji, the will lose. It is not just that this is a weak NZ team, it is also that they are playing very poorly - hopefully they can settle down and stop making basic errors every couple of minutes.....
Darwin
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Wales vs New Zealand - 17th June, 17:00 GMT
Argentina vs South Africa - 17th June, 19:15 GMT
The rest of the playoff matches (to determine final seedings) are on at various times on the same day too...
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From Supersport's website:
June
17 Scotland v Italy - University of Western Cape, Bellville 12:30
17 Fiji v Samoa - University of Western Cape, Bellville 14:45
17 France v Australia - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 14:45
17 Ireland v England - University of Western Cape, Bellville 17:00
17 Wales v New Zealand - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 17:00
17 Argentina v South Africa - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 19:15
22 Winner Match 19 v Winner Match 20 - University of Western Cape, Bellville 12:00
22 Loser Match 19 v Loser Match 20 - University of Western Cape, Bellville 14:15
22 Winner Match 21 v Winner Match 22 - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 14:15
22 Loser Match 21 v Loser Match 22 - University of Western Cape, Bellville 16:30
22 Loser Match 23 v Loser Match 24 - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 16:30
22 Winner Match 23 v Winner Match 24 - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 18:45
June
17 Scotland v Italy - University of Western Cape, Bellville 12:30
17 Fiji v Samoa - University of Western Cape, Bellville 14:45
17 France v Australia - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 14:45
17 Ireland v England - University of Western Cape, Bellville 17:00
17 Wales v New Zealand - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 17:00
17 Argentina v South Africa - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 19:15
22 Winner Match 19 v Winner Match 20 - University of Western Cape, Bellville 12:00
22 Loser Match 19 v Loser Match 20 - University of Western Cape, Bellville 14:15
22 Winner Match 21 v Winner Match 22 - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 14:15
22 Loser Match 21 v Loser Match 22 - University of Western Cape, Bellville 16:30
22 Loser Match 23 v Loser Match 24 - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 16:30
22 Winner Match 23 v Winner Match 24 - DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium 18:45
Darwin
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No, there are no quarters in the JWC...
justanargie
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I think we stand a chance... I would like a heavy rain to help us...
I couldn`t see the game of them against Ireland... can someone explain me how did that happened? Try not to answer "the same stuff that ARG-AUS"....
I couldn`t see the game of them against Ireland... can someone explain me how did that happened? Try not to answer "the same stuff that ARG-AUS"....
TrueSlawter
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Tbh it sucks that Wales as top seeds get NZ straight away again xD Hopefully a repeat performance from them all will see them come out ontop again 
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You scored an interception try on the stroke of Half time and the other try was picked up by your 13 when the aussies tried to exploit an overlap and did a skip pass which their 13 knocked on... It wasn't a very good game to watch in the rain, a lot of mistakes and your scrumhalf had a lot of aimless kicks... Pretty much the same as the South African Scrumhalf in their first match vs Ireland... Your scrum was very dominant though
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Ireland beat us by dominating our forward pack and while England did the same, England couldn't contain our running game in the 2nd half while Ireland were ahead enough and managed to hold out our 2nd half comeback. Particularly, we struggled in the line-outs in both games.
I think rain would definately help Argentina and the Cape does experience it's share winter rainfall... just hoping it holds out... for at least till after the final though I'm not looking too far ahead of the SA vs Arg game as your boys have been playing some AMAZING rugby.
Darwin
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Right, getting to the business end of the tournament now. Glad NZ are still in the running, but I don't honestly think we would still be in contention hadn't been in the easiest pool. If the team starts playing to their potential they will have a good chance of defending their crown, but if they play like they did in the pool stage (where they probably got worse each round), they won't even make the final.
There are normally a number of selection dilemmas for NZ at U20 level, but this is usually a case of choosing which outstanding players to leave out - now it is a case of choosing which poorly performing player deserve another chance! The props have been pretty solid: I'd start with Tuungafasi and Armstrong, but I'm far from an expert on front-row play.... Tuungafasi has impressed me not only with his work in the tight, but his big hits and open field running. I'd start Harris at hooker over Marshall, though I'd expect Marshall will be their first choice hooker. Harris started vs Wales, and was one of the few standouts for NZ. He's physically much bigger than Marshall, and made great yards with ball in hand, as well as being very good in the lineouts (though one game is a pretty small sample size!). I'd expect Latta and Ross will be the locks, as I'm not sure whether Llyod is fit (and they would be my preferred combo in any case).
The loose-forward make-up will be interesting. As I've mentioned before, I think Hugh Blake has been the pick of the loose-forwards by a long way, but may not even make the starting XV as he is competing for the 7 jersey with with Jake Heenan, who is a co-captain. Personally I'd start Blake at 7, Taufua at 8 (whose running game has impressed thus far), and I see a 3 way battle the 6 jersey. Personally I'd start Manu - his running game hasn't been as effective as I had hoped, but he has shown a good work-rate, and has been exceptional when used at number 2 in the lineout. Playing Heenan at 6 (hence dual opensides) is another option I think could work, while Jimmy Tupou has also been solid in his time at 6.
Hall looks like he will start at 9, while I'd definitely start West at 10. He had a strong game against Fiji, and if he can play well again he will be key to getting the NZ backline firing. I'd imagine we will see Ahki and Emery in the centres again (though Peleseuma may be an option at 12). There are certainly plenty of options in the outside backs. I'd imagine Keresoma will start in the 11 jersey, but the other two spots are wide open. Proctor's running game has impressed me, though I think he is better suited to the wing than at fullback, hence I would start him at 14 with McKenzie at fullback. However I wouldn't rule out seeing Curtis, Va'a Tofa, or Hanley on the wing (with either McKenzie or Proctor at fullback).
The optimist in me wants to predict a comfortable NZ win - if we play well I think this is achievable, but if we play as we have been this is very unlikely. I'm going to pick NZ by 20, but if they play poorly again (a very real possibility) it could be a lot closer, and Wales could easily win again.
There are normally a number of selection dilemmas for NZ at U20 level, but this is usually a case of choosing which outstanding players to leave out - now it is a case of choosing which poorly performing player deserve another chance! The props have been pretty solid: I'd start with Tuungafasi and Armstrong, but I'm far from an expert on front-row play.... Tuungafasi has impressed me not only with his work in the tight, but his big hits and open field running. I'd start Harris at hooker over Marshall, though I'd expect Marshall will be their first choice hooker. Harris started vs Wales, and was one of the few standouts for NZ. He's physically much bigger than Marshall, and made great yards with ball in hand, as well as being very good in the lineouts (though one game is a pretty small sample size!). I'd expect Latta and Ross will be the locks, as I'm not sure whether Llyod is fit (and they would be my preferred combo in any case).
The loose-forward make-up will be interesting. As I've mentioned before, I think Hugh Blake has been the pick of the loose-forwards by a long way, but may not even make the starting XV as he is competing for the 7 jersey with with Jake Heenan, who is a co-captain. Personally I'd start Blake at 7, Taufua at 8 (whose running game has impressed thus far), and I see a 3 way battle the 6 jersey. Personally I'd start Manu - his running game hasn't been as effective as I had hoped, but he has shown a good work-rate, and has been exceptional when used at number 2 in the lineout. Playing Heenan at 6 (hence dual opensides) is another option I think could work, while Jimmy Tupou has also been solid in his time at 6.
Hall looks like he will start at 9, while I'd definitely start West at 10. He had a strong game against Fiji, and if he can play well again he will be key to getting the NZ backline firing. I'd imagine we will see Ahki and Emery in the centres again (though Peleseuma may be an option at 12). There are certainly plenty of options in the outside backs. I'd imagine Keresoma will start in the 11 jersey, but the other two spots are wide open. Proctor's running game has impressed me, though I think he is better suited to the wing than at fullback, hence I would start him at 14 with McKenzie at fullback. However I wouldn't rule out seeing Curtis, Va'a Tofa, or Hanley on the wing (with either McKenzie or Proctor at fullback).
The optimist in me wants to predict a comfortable NZ win - if we play well I think this is achievable, but if we play as we have been this is very unlikely. I'm going to pick NZ by 20, but if they play poorly again (a very real possibility) it could be a lot closer, and Wales could easily win again.
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Won't be around for the matches this weekend so have to record them. Hopefully it'll be the English who tire this time. Interesting to see Henderson at 6.
coonor
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With Henderson at 6, thus making room for an new lock, it seems that Ireland will really attack the line out and add some bulk in the scrum. Last time Ireland really dominated the line out and that was where our dominance in the first half came from. Hope to see the same but for the full 80 minutes!
Yeah. I think between two fly-halves and three second-rows, Ireland plan for a lot of line-outs.
Olding at 13 is a weird one. Never heard of him playing there, while Farrell and Nelson both have - and Olding's played 12 and 15. Weird.
Olding at 13 is a weird one. Never heard of him playing there, while Farrell and Nelson both have - and Olding's played 12 and 15. Weird.
Darwin
AKA Dingo_Darwin
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[TABLE="width: 286"]
<colgroup><col style="text-align: center; "><col style="text-align: center; "><col style="text-align: center; "></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WALES[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Rob Evans[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ofa Tu'ungafasi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Kirby Myhill (C)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Nathan Harris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Samson Lee[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Fraser Armstrong[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Rhodri Hughes[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Nick Ross[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Matthew Screech[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Joe Latta[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Luke Hamilton[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jimmy Tupou[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Ellis Jenkins[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hugh Blake[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Dan Baker[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jordan Taufua[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Tom Habberfield[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Bryn Hall (C)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Matthew Morgan[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ihaia West[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Eli Walker[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Milford Keresoma[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Jack Dixon[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Opetera Peleseuma[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Cory Allen[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jason Emery[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Tom Prydie[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Matt Proctor[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Ross Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Martin McKenzie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Darran Harris[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Rhys Marshall[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Gareth Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Reuben Northover[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WillGriff John[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tuki Raimona[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Ieuan Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jake Heenan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Daniel Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Taniela Manu[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Jonathan Evans[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jono Kitto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Sam Davies[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Scott Eade[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Thomas Pascoe[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Pita Ahki[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
<colgroup><col style="text-align: center; "><col style="text-align: center; "><col style="text-align: center; "></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WALES[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Rob Evans[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ofa Tu'ungafasi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Kirby Myhill (C)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Nathan Harris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Samson Lee[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Fraser Armstrong[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Rhodri Hughes[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Nick Ross[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Matthew Screech[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Joe Latta[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Luke Hamilton[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jimmy Tupou[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Ellis Jenkins[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hugh Blake[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Dan Baker[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jordan Taufua[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Tom Habberfield[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Bryn Hall (C)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Matthew Morgan[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ihaia West[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Eli Walker[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Milford Keresoma[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Jack Dixon[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Opetera Peleseuma[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Cory Allen[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jason Emery[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Tom Prydie[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Matt Proctor[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Ross Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Martin McKenzie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Darran Harris[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Rhys Marshall[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Gareth Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Reuben Northover[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WillGriff John[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tuki Raimona[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Ieuan Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jake Heenan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Daniel Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Taniela Manu[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Jonathan Evans[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jono Kitto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Sam Davies[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Scott Eade[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Thomas Pascoe[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Pita Ahki[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
New Zealand and Wales teams named. I have to say I'm particularly happy with New Zealand team - it is like the selectors have come onto TRF and have been reading my posts (a wise decision on their part...). I would have (just) preferred Manu over Tupou at 6, but considering every other debatable selection went the way I wanted, I probably can't complain too much!
The New Zealand team enter this game relatively fresh, having rotated their team throughout the pool stage, but are probably lacking the required game-time to develop combinations. In contrast Wales have played almost the same team in every one of their matches thus far: over half the team has started every match in the tournament, including 4/5 of the tight-five. What this means is that they will have had plenty of game-time together as a team, but one would have to question how fresh they will be, with this being the 4th match in 14 days for many players! Wales will definitely require a big impact from the bench, as there is a real chance the may fade a bit in the final 20 mins off this match...
I'm picking (or at least hoping) the New Zealand team will click this match, but there are no guarantees of this. I'm going to predict NZ by 10-15, but a lot will depend on the weather...
