2012 IRB Junior World Championship

[Scan]

I know attitudes are definitely changing in Ieeland at least. Where once it was no gym work until you're at least 16 now first years are doing it. I know one school at least that has been giving students protein shakes from age 12.

Ah, but that's gotta be wrong BG8. Doing weights at such a young age ruins functionality and flexibility. I know the head coach at a university in Leinster who says that every year, when he gets his new scholarship lads in, they have to undo pretty much all the gym work they've being doing from so young and put them on knew fitness programmes. Loads of bodyweight excersises are enough until at least 16.

 

[William18]

This is probably common knowledge to most people but I heard in New Zealand they often grow up training grouped by weight rather than age. Therefore you have to develop the skillset for a rounded game. E.g that kid who is absolutely huge compared to everyone else at 16 and just batters everybody but then when steps up a group find that everyone is big enough to cope with him and that he hasn't developed the skills to stand out. Basically seems to make you learn a rounded set of attributes rather than relying on one central skill. If you look at that bunch of England U20's at the moment as people have said they will be caught up sizewise and then they'll need to stand out in other ways. why not have that focus sooner rather than later.

Anyway, on paper Peat, last year was the year England should have won the championship, with the core of wasps players already starting regularly in the premiership. Definitely missed a trick there.

Do they not do that in other countries? The weight thing is more a safety thing. You can have 14 year olds weighing as much as 80 kg while others weigh just 40.

 

[bobbilycious]

This is probably common knowledge to most people but I heard in New Zealand they often grow up training grouped by weight rather than age. Therefore you have to develop the skillset for a rounded game. E.g that kid who is absolutely huge compared to everyone else at 16 and just batters everybody but then when steps up a group find that everyone is big enough to cope with him and that he hasn't developed the skills to stand out. Basically seems to make you learn a rounded set of attributes rather than relying on one central skill. If you look at that bunch of England U20's at the moment as people have said they will be caught up sizewise and then they'll need to stand out in other ways. why not have that focus sooner rather than later.

Anyway, on paper Peat, last year was the year England should have won the championship, with the core of wasps players already starting regularly in the premiership. Definitely missed a trick there.

I think that might just be Auckland. I know we don't do that in Christchurch. To be fair, most of our talent probably comes from Auckland, though.
One thing that probably helps is touch rugby. At my school (a fairly small school where rugby wasn't the most prominent sport) we played touch nearly every lunch time during the summer. We would have maybe 10 guys each team on a very small field (we'd have props playing along with the backs - they weren't too bad either). I've heard this doesn't happen too much in other countries.

 

[big ginger 8]

Not if you're smart about it you can do body weight exercises and flexibility but there are also exercises which can be done with weights and certain limits that allow you lift greater weights when you get onto the heavier stuff.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Do they not do that in other countries? The weight thing is more a safety thing. You can have 14 year olds weighing as much as 80 kg while others weigh just 40.

I suppose you get more outrageously big guys in your neck of woods, with both Maoris and Pacific Islanders? At school level in Britain there are few kids naturally so big that they seriously hurt other guys just by existing.

I think that might just be Auckland. I know we don't do that in Christchurch. To be fair, most of our talent probably comes from Auckland, though.
One thing that probably helps is touch rugby. At my school (a fairly small school where rugby wasn't the most prominent sport) we played touch nearly every lunch time during the summer. We would have maybe 10 guys each team on a very small field (we'd have props playing along with the backs - they weren't too bad either). I've heard this doesn't happen too much in other countries.

Yeah I think tag rugby isn't taken as a seriously development opportunity, it's more a bit of light relief or a mild warmup. But I definitely don't think it should be that wat. Give them a full pitch to play tag rugby and watch them play properly, rather than playing on a quarter of a pitch where its just pointless.

 

[Scan]

I think that might just be Auckland. I know we don't do that in Christchurch. To be fair, most of our talent probably comes from Auckland, though.
One thing that probably helps is touch rugby. At my school (a fairly small school where rugby wasn't the most prominent sport) we played touch nearly every lunch time during the summer. We would have maybe 10 guys each team on a very small field (we'd have props playing along with the backs - they weren't too bad either). I've heard this doesn't happen too much in other countries.

Wow! Rugby every lunch break! I was always the one at school who wanted to play rugby instead of soccer so I took my frustration out by smashing fellas with shoulders and slide tackling at every oppurtunity.

The one time we did play rugby, a lad broke his hand and we were never allowed to play it again.

 

[big ginger 8]

Do they not do that in other countries? The weight thing is more a safety thing. You can have 14 year olds weighing as much as 80 kg while others weigh just 40.

No other countrybthat I know of does it.

 

[bobbilycious]

No, not rugby. Just touch. I would have loved it to have been rugby.
We played rugby a few times, though. I remember playing a game of rugby against the year above us. About 5 of us got injured. I broke my finger and our halfback had a black eye for a week. I think there were 2 or 3 others injured, too.

 

[Scan]

Not if you're smart about it you can do body weight exercises and flexibility but there are also exercises which can be done with weights and certain limits that allow you lift greater weights when you get onto the heavier stuff.

Ahhh, I dunno. At that age you can take it too far. Players get to muscly and injury prone too. Look at Jerry Flannery, he was a complete gym monkey and was forced into retirement because of it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wow! Rugby every lunch break! I was always the one at school who wanted to play rugby instead of soccer so I took my frustration out by smashing fellas with shoulders and slide tackling at every oppurtunity.

The one time we did play rugby, a lad broke his hand and we were never allowed to play it again.

Bet they loved you. Our school deliberately didn't allow football as a sport option because they were afraid it would stop the flow of talent into their rugby teams (successful rugby school). Even then at lunch time most people were to be found playing football instead of rugby

 

[Scan]

No, not rugby. Just touch. I would have loved it to have been rugby.
We played rugby a few times, though. I remember playing a game of rugby against the year above us. About 5 of us got injured. I broke my finger and our halfback had a black eye for a week. I think there were 2 or 3 others injured, too.

Well, either way, a bunch of young fellas playing tag unsupervised would start smashing each other pretty quickly.
Now that I think of it, we did used to play 'murder ball' where a lad kicked the ball up in the air and whoever caught had to either kick it or get piled on by everyone else.

 

[profitius]

Polynesians reach adulthood a few years faster than White people so thats probably the main reason for weight being ahead of age.

 

[lucky number 7]

Wow! Rugby every lunch break! I was always the one at school who wanted to play rugby instead of soccer so I took my frustration out by smashing fellas with shoulders and slide tackling at every oppurtunity.

The one time we did play rugby, a lad broke his hand and we were never allowed to play it again.

This happened with British bulldog in my primary school... We used to play it every day until someone tripped a girl and she broke her wrist...



We also had a bloke who used to leave a shoe box full of hardcore porn magazines in the lads toilets for us all to enjoy...however that's a different story.

 

[big ginger 8]

Ahhh, I dunno. At that age you can take it too far. Players get to muscly and injury prone too. Look at Jerry Flannery, he was a complete gym monkey and was forced into retirement because of it.

That's why you get a S&C coach.

In my junior school we played tip rugby every lunch break. Now in the senior school not so much.

 

[psychic duck]

This happened with British bulldog in my primary school... We used to play it every day until someone tripped a girl and she broke her wrist...

similar story here, they banned cricket as somebody hit somebody with a plastic bat, and also a full contact variation of handball for another incident where somebody got hurt

We also had a bloke who used to leave a shoe box full of hardcore porn magazines in the lads toilets for us all to enjoy...however that's a different story.

at primary school?

 

[dullonien]

So it will come down to:

Wales - New Zealand
Argentina - South Africa

Well if we want to win the thing were gonna have to do it the very hard way, by beating NZ twice. I can't see it happening myself, but it should be closer than the normal hammering NZ serve up. What a prise for finishing as top seeds eh?

The strong U20 side in 2008 has basically led directly to Wales being strong at the moment with a large core of that team making the step-up, Warburton, Halfpenny and Jon Davies being the stand-outs, but plenty more close to that level strengthening the regions (Turnbull, Biggar, Tovey, Webb). Hopefully we'll see a similar thing with this side, and another bunch of talented and successful 18-20 y/o's pushing for the senior team within a year or two. Plenty of players there looking good enough to push for regional places at the very least.

Just got to sort out the regional finances and finally do something in Europe and I'd be in dreamland as a Welsh supporter. Beating Aus on sat would be a start.

 

[psychic duck]

Well if we want to win the thing were gonna have to do it the very hard way, by beating NZ twice. I can't see it happening myself, but it should be closer than the normal hammering NZ serve up. What a prise for finishing as top seeds eh?

The strong U20 side in 2008 has basically led directly to Wales being strong at the moment with a large core of that team making the step-up, Warburton, Halfpenny and Jon Davies being the stand-outs, but plenty more close to that level strengthening the regions (Turnbull, Biggar, Tovey, Webb). Hopefully we'll see a similar thing with this side, and another bunch of talented and successful 18-20 y/o's pushing for the senior team within a year or two. Plenty of players there looking good enough to push for regional players at the very least.

how's Matthew Morgan and Eli Walker doing this tournament?

 

[lucky number 7]

similar story here, they banned cricket as somebody hit somebody with a plastic bat, and also a full contact variation of handball for another incident where somebody got hurt



at primary school?

Yes mate...It was mental. Almost got caught out by teachers one day but some quick thinking by him salvaged it.

 

[Peat]

You must take into account a tactical decision here, an under performance there, a bounce of the ball, state of pitch, weather etc. You can't say England should win it every year but they should be up there challenging, which they are.

England looked better than SA in the first half but couldn't defend in the second half. They must have been tired.

Feh. Obviously, **** happens, but if every country plays to their normal potential, it's ours, and it's our comfortably. Even if we lose one match, we'll win the other 4, and put such horrific tonkings on the no hopers that we win on points difference - as is the case this year. Admittedly, it doesn't always happen that way, to no small extent due to us never being able to put out a full strength side in the U20s. Not that Wales have either, I'd have been interested to see what would have happened if Wales had been able to put out the side they've shown here in the U20 6N.

This is not a vintage England squad - said it before the tournament. It is transparently to anyone who takes a look at the other squads, and takes a look at the birth dates in this one. Last year's squad was vintage, a truly evil piece of work with in particular a tight five to die for. I was gutted when that side didn't win the final, as I thought that side really had it in them. This year? Eh. I'm disappointed by the manner of the defeat, which raised troubling questions about decision making in the backs and the selection process, but not greatly surprised. But to note the difference -

Last year's U20 starting tight five has already racked up 88 first team appearances for Premiership sides - that does not include Vunipola's 33 appearances for Bristol in the Championship, or Launchbury's Saxons cap (think he's got one) - and two of them are in England squads, despite all of them spending major portions of this season injured.

You can take it to the bank that this season's crop won't have accomplished that by next year.

In fairness, I think the gap is narrowing, at least in terms of Ireland/Wales/France. Scotland and Italy are f**ked though.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I was at the SA vs England game yesterday just because I thought that it might end up being a cracker with so much riding on it. After going 0-6 into half-time I was pleasantly surprised by the 2nd half up in intensity which is something I hope both the u20 side and senior side can manage to do from the get-go.

I think a factor here was the fact that the English side was just plain HUGE. My impression was that they probably got a bit tired before our guys did as they seemed to drop off more tackles and were just generaly less commited in defense and in competing at the breakdown which meant we got over the advantage line and got quick ball. SA also came out a bit of a better team (more accurate) in the 2nd half so its probably a combination of the two umplified the fact that we had the home crowd behind our boys.

While I think our squad last year was better than the one we have this year (even though we lost out on the semi's last year going down to a better English side) it is still our best chance with home advantage.