Your Lions Squad Following the 6N

[mochyn]

Can't argue with the rest... but...

Tuilangi at 12?

Don't think his passing and probably more critically, awareness of what is outside him both in his line and the opposition line is up to it. For instance, he butchered a 3 on 1 at the weekend.

I'd try Roberts back in there - him and BOD had a great understanding last time out, with Roberts knowing where to look for the off-load out of the tackle. Has Tuilangi demonstrated the same?

I would put Henson at 12 before Tuilangi!

 

[psychic duck]

Who'd you have ahead of Cross? It's pretty clear what went wrong with that scrum and it wasn't all Cross. His support completely left him behind. If you look at Edinburgh's locks none are what I'd consider strong scrummagers he'll have that with the Lions. He's my third choice anyway.

Did you watch the France match last night? Hamilton was excellent. I'm well aware of his discipline problem but he is brilliant at disrupting opposition ball at the lineout and safe on his own. Also a pain at ruck time and a strong defender. Hines may not be available because of Top 14 playoffs anyway.

Mike Ross should be the third tighthead. Cross isn't good, and if he got destroyed in that match throughout not just that one scrum. And has been all season as well, Edinburgh even conceded a penalty try to Munster IIRC. I don't see how he was that good off the bench for Scotland anyway.

Hamilton is indisciplined and exactly the kind of player I could see losing his cool and gifting penalties to Australia. Last year I remember he conceded like 5 penalties in a match against Italy, it's been a problem throughout his career. Not only is Hines a much better player with a more complete game with more handling/ball skills, Ian Evans is also a better player who is a more athletic useful big lump than Hamilton. Also the Top 14 final is just one match vs Barbarians, doesn't rule out for the entire tour. Out of interest, Hines actually turned down playing in the Top 14 final in 2009 to join the Lions tour and had his contract terminated by Perpignan as a result, that was why he joined Leinster in the first place.

 

[big ginger 8]

Mike Ross should be the third tighthead. Cross isn't good, and if he got destroyed in that match throughout not just that one scrum. And has been all season as well, Edinburgh even conceded a penalty try to Munster IIRC. I don't see how he was that good off the bench for Scotland anyway.

Hamilton is indisciplined and exactly the kind of player I could see losing his cool and gifting penalties to Australia. Last year I remember he conceded like 5 penalties in a match against Italy, it's been a problem throughout his career. Not only is Hines a much better player with a more complete game with more handling/ball skills, Ian Evans is also a better player who is a more athletic useful big lump than Hamilton. Also the Top 14 final is just one match vs Barbarians, doesn't rule out for the entire tour. Out of interest, Hines actually turned down playing in the Top 14 final in 2009 to join the Lions tour and had his contract terminated by Perpignan as a result, that was why he joined Leinster in the first place.

Scotlands best match with the scrum was against Ireland where Cross started. I'm probably a bit biased anyway as I want Ross to stay home this summer as he's clearly out on his feet and needs a rest.

I'm just saying I like what I've seen from Hamilton and been very impressed. For all the raving he gets I haven't been as impressed by Evans, not saying I don't rate him just not as much sorry. I'm fully aware of Hines' ball skills I'd actually love to take him but some gut feeling is telling me no also as far as I'm aware there are now serious doubts of Hines' ability to finish a match? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I'm sure you will. With only four lock likely to be picked and me picking PO'C I'd want the other to all be able to finish matches. Gatland has said from the beginning his preference is to have players who are available from the beginning. I love Hines as a player was one of my favourites for Leinster just something is telling me no. If I took him anyway I'd add him not put him in for anyone.

 

[Peat]

Scotland's locks were on average about 2 stone heavier than Ireland's, which I feel had more to do with it than the props.

 

[psychic duck]

Scotlands best match with the scrum was against Ireland where Cross started. I'm probably a bit biased anyway as I want Ross to stay home this summer as he's clearly out on his feet and needs a rest.

I'm just saying I like what I've seen from Hamilton and been very impressed. For all the raving he gets I haven't been as impressed by Evans, not saying I don't rate him just not as much sorry. I'm fully aware of Hines' ball skills I'd actually love to take him but some gut feeling is telling me no also as far as I'm aware there are now serious doubts of Hines' ability to finish a match? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I'm sure you will. With only four lock likely to be picked and me picking PO'C I'd want the other to all be able to finish matches. Gatland has said from the beginning his preference is to have players who are available from the beginning. I love Hines as a player was one of my favourites for Leinster just something is telling me no. If I took him anyway I'd add him not put him in for anyone.

Mike Ross rescued the Irish scrum from the days of Buckley as first choice. You also rarely ever see him dominated playing with Leinster.

I don't know why you don't rate Ian Evans, he was one of Wales' best players over this tournament in my opinion.

And as for Hines finishing matches. I went through this before once, that is simply completely wrong. I think that was just somebody said that because of his age not because it actually happens.

Anyway Hines has not been subbed and played 80 minutes in every Top 14 match he has started this season (http://www.itsrugby.fr/joueur-zoom-610-top14-2012-***ulaire.html) and also only missed 6 minutes off the big two matches Heineken Cup matches with Leinster. Finishing matches isn't a problem for him, and anyway if it was, there would be a good bench option hopefully as well.

Scotland's locks were on average about 2 stone heavier than Ireland's, which I feel had more to do with it than the props.

This. Hamilton is like a 21 stone Olly Kohn style tank. Richie Gray is equally massive.

 

[big ginger 8]

Mike Ross rescued the Irish scrum from the days of Buckley as first choice. You also rarely ever see him dominated playing with Leinster.

I don't know why you don't rate Ian Evans, he was one of Wales' best players over this tournament in my opinion.

And as for Hines finishing matches. I went through this before once, that is simply completely wrong. I think that was just somebody said that because of his age not because it actually happens.

Anyway Hines has not been subbed and played 80 minutes in every Top 14 match he has started this season (http://www.itsrugby.fr/joueur-zoom-610-top14-2012-***ulaire.html) and also only missed 6 minutes off the big two matches Heineken Cup matches with Leinster. Finishing matches isn't a problem for him, and anyway if it was, there would be a good bench option hopefully as well.



This. Hamilton is like a 21 stone Olly Kohn style tank. Richie Gray is equally massive.

Do you really think you need to explain to me what Mike Ross has done for my own country and province? I'd like him to continue that work and he needs a rest. He is being overplayed and after the 50/60 mark is dead on his feet. On hard ground in Austraila? He'd be a liability.

I'm not happy about picking Cross but he's my pick.

Didn't say I don't rate Evans just not as much as the others.

Not being subbed isn't really an indication to finishing matches though his other lock is Cudmore who's also ancient. As I said if it's only 4 locks I wouldn't bring him if I'm bringing PO'C.

If Hamilton can make Cross who "isn't good" look good surely that's a plus in Hamilton's corner?

 

[dullonien]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Ian Evans would also be a good fit for the Lions. He's one of the jokers in the Welsh squad, and after watching his Ianto's Yak stuff from the Ospreys, he's a real character. These kinds of people are needed on a longish Lions tour, they really help the four nations come together as one. Powell is always cited as an important member of the last Lions tour, even if he wasn't that great on the field.

Regarding Ross. Not a big fan of his. He's basically the default option for Ireland because he can keep the scrum from retreating. He offers little anywhere else.

 

[coonor]

I would hope that the squad would be more even than some pundits are proposing. Undoubtably it will be for the majority English and Welsh players but I think some people need to get off the bandwagon in some cases for example:

Jenkins has by his standards had a very poor 12 months, he is still behind Sheridan at Toulon yet some people seem to think he's a good choice of captain, while Healy has been performing at a very high level for the last two years and has developed into a key player within Leinster's European onslaught of the last 2 seasons.

Is Donnacha Ryan really Lions quality. He's been good in the absence of O'Connell but the Irish lineout has been passive and his discipline is still questionable.

 

[psychic duck]

Not being subbed isn't really an indication to finishing matches though his other lock is Cudmore who's also ancient. As I said if it's only 4 locks I wouldn't bring him if I'm bringing PO'C.

If Hamilton can make Cross who "isn't good" look good surely that's a plus in Hamilton's corner?

If playing the entire match when he starts isn't "an indication to finishing matches" then what is?

That's exactly what he is doing, he plays the entire match for Clermont normally and finishing them. I don't see a problem or any evidence with Hines fitness. Simon Shaw went on the last Lions tour at a similar age and played some very high intensity matches at high altitude.

Regarding Hamilton. He is a tank behind the prop which is a plus, but he has other problems that mean he isn't a top lock . Mainly giving away clumsy, needless, moronic penalties and a liability to being wound up by the opposition. Also compared to Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Donnacha Ryan he isn't as fit and athletic at the lineout and work rate.

Regarding Ross. I would rather have a solid, reliable prop rather than Cross who gets dominated most weeks at club level this season and often plays second string to WP Nel. Scotland prefer Euan Murray to him for a reason. One match against Ireland is not reason to take him on a Lions tour.

 

[big ginger 8]

If playing the entire match when he starts isn't "an indication to finishing matches" then what is?

That's exactly what he is doing, he plays the entire match for Clermont normally and finishing them. I don't see a problem or any evidence with Hines fitness. Simon Shaw went on the last Lions tour at a similar age and played some very high intensity matches at high altitude.

Regarding Hamilton. He is a tank behind the prop which is a plus, but he has other problems that mean he isn't a top lock . Mainly giving away clumsy, needless, moronic penalties and a liability to being wound up by the opposition. Also compared to Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Donnacha Ryan he isn't as fit and athletic at the lineout and work rate.

Regarding Ross. I would rather have a solid, reliable prop rather than Cross who gets dominated most weeks at club level this season and often plays second string to WP Nel. Scotland prefer Euan Murray to him for a reason. One match against Ireland is not reason to take him on a Lions tour.

Mike Ross often plays the whole match does that mean he doesn't have problems finishing matches. Impact in the later minutes is the best indication for me.

Hamilton is plenty athletic come lineout time. He's the sort of grunt I like in a secondrow clearly not your type think we should leave this argument it's just back and forth and neither of us will convince the other. I won't be at all disappointed if Hines makes the squad and wouldn't put it past him to get in the team just at the moment this is my opinion. If Ross makes it I'll be happy for him but as an Irish and Leinster fan I'd be annoyed as he clearly needs the summer off.

 

[j'nuh]

Hamilton is plenty athletic come lineout time.

Kind of yes and kind of no. The lineout has been an issue for both Scotland and Gloucester for a long time. He takes on the role of middle jumper for club because of the lack of anyone available (due to a mid-season, career-ending injury to Alex Brown), and for country because they try to accommodate having him and Gray in the same team. However, he's not a middle jumper. He never will have the mobility for it. He's not fast enough, and lifters won't be able to get him in the air easily enough. For his bulk, he makes a very good lifter and front jumper though.

 

[big ginger 8]

Kind of yes and kind of no. The lineout has been an issue for both Scotland and Gloucester for a long time. He takes on the role of middle jumper for club because of the lack of anyone available, and for country because they try to accommodate having him and Gray in the same team. However, he's not a middle jumper. He never will have the mobility for it. He's not fast enough, and lifters won't be able to get him in the air easily enough. For his bulk, he makes a very good lifter and front jumper though.

Luckily on the Lions with Parling and PO'C in my squad that wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Jaguares]

1 - Healy
2 - Rory Best
3- Jones
4- Parling
5- Hamilton
6- Robshaw
7 - Sean O'Brien
8 - Faletau
9 - Ben Youngs
10- Sexton
11 - Maitland
12 - Roberts
13 - Brian O'Driscoll
14 - Ashton
15 - Halfpenny

 

[Ospreylian]

I think Sexton has been completely overrated lately. Sure he was great a season or two ago, but I think he has gradually gone downhill since. I would have Biggar, Burns, and maybe even Paddy Jackson and James Hook ahead of Sexton. I just don't think he offers much in attack these days. I don't want to see a steady "let's kick the points over" kind of fly half this tour. I want someone with real flair, like Burns has shown all season for Gloucester.

 

[jcahill1]

I think Sexton has been completely overrated lately. Sure he was great a season or two ago, but I think he has gradually gone downhill since. I would have Biggar, Burns, and maybe even Paddy Jackson and James Hook ahead of Sexton. I just don't think he offers much in attack these days. I don't want to see a steady "let's kick the points over" kind of fly half this tour. I want someone with real flair, like Burns has shown all season for Gloucester.

Did you watch the Argentina game in the Autumn Internationals?

 

[big ginger 8]

I think Sexton has been completely overrated lately. Sure he was great a season or two ago, but I think he has gradually gone downhill since. I would have Biggar, Burns, and maybe even Paddy Jackson and James Hook ahead of Sexton. I just don't think he offers much in attack these days. I don't want to see a steady "let's kick the points over" kind of fly half this tour. I want someone with real flair, like Burns has shown all season for Gloucester.

You're funny.

 

[Ospreylian]

You're funny.

Why thank you. I know, it is hilarious that there are players out there better than your precious, untouchable, Wilkinson-esque Sexton

 

[Ospreylian]

Did you watch the Argentina game in the Autumn Internationals?

No. But did you watch pretty much, by the sound of it, every single Gloucester match this season?

 

[Peat]

I have to say I would have Sexton over Jackson, Burns, Biggar and Hook without too much hesitation. I mean, seriously now.

 

[big ginger 8]

Why thank you. I know, it is hilarious that there are players out there better than your precious, untouchable, Wilkinson-esque Sexton

Try harder please.