Your Lions Squad Following the 6N

[j'nuh]

j'nuh, you were going well until you got to the outside backs. I think North and Cuthbert are certs. North makes few mistakes, but is still very dangerous when given half a chance. Cuthbert has his flaws, but he's a proven try-scorer. Visser offers less than him imo, and possibly has even worse defensive qualities. Cuthbert's defence wasn't an issue other than the Ireland game tbh, and in the England game he was excellent defensively. His out and out pace isn't matched by anyone else available, and certainly not by Visser.

I can't see JSD going tbh. He's unlucky not to have picked up more caps, but this will limit his chances. Bowe would be a good option if he returns to some form. I'm not sure about Zebo either tbh, I'm happy for proven, experienced players like Bowe or Lydiate to return from injury and be included, but Zebo has only just really broken into both the Munster and Ireland starting line-ups ) I know he's been involved with Munster for a while, but he's only really put in consistently good performances this season after some troubles with injury and form). I'd include one more fullback, and take Kearney, with the option of playing Hogg or Halfpenny on the wing, especially Hogg who isn't secure enough under the high ball, or in defence for my liking at 15.

Thanks.

I must admit, I had the hardest time with the outside backs. I rewrote that part a few times, forgot to keep in the part where I said I found the outside backs almost impossible to pick. Fullback is fairly easy, but the wingers is so difficult. I'd like to defend my selections:

JSD - A lack of experience at international level means nothing for me, he's got more experience playing rugby in general than Cuthbert and North put together. I want him taken because he's the one player you look towards in the 78th minute when you're a score down. He's the "moment-of-magic" kind of guy. We would be missing out not taking him.

Visser vs. Cuthbert was a terrible one. What edged it for me is that Visser has such an incredible try scoring record in teams where possession is hard to come by. He's the most natural chance-spotter about.

Zebo is purely in on his 6N form. As I said, up until injury he was the best wing of the tournament. Cuthbert and North have hardly been firing all the way through the tournament, but have admittedly had good moments. It's not that I don't rate them, but that I think we have a few good wings and that they're unlucky to miss out.

I'm not sure if Warburton needs to prove anything either. He's a proven performer, who after a tough year or so has proven that he's back in form. The blip was his dip in form, not the last two games. His dip in form was massively exaggerated anyway, his work rate, tackling and carrying were still very, very good; it was just that he wasn't managing the 4+ turnovers per game he was before/during the WC (amounts may be exaggerated). If other players playing at openside are allowed to be excused for not turning over loads of ball because their work rates are high, then Warburton shouldn't be judged too harshly for his turnover rates during his dip in form. It didn't help that there was an in-form Tipuric that everyone wanted to see start ahead of him, exaggerating Warburton's dip in form even further.

You can't put aside a year of relatively bad form because of two games - one great and one decent. He wouldn't have made my Lions team before these two games and I'd be fickle to feel that he's nailed a spot after those two games.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

J'Nuh, can I ask then - what does Farrell, Burns or Biggar have that Sexton doesn't? Also, not every other nation casts their doubt over him - infact it's mostly the English who would rather have Farrell.

I think it's fair to say it should come from a Welsh or Scottish perspective to weather Sexton is 'better than average'. Everyone is going to be slightly biased.


edit: My team on this thread anyway

1: Jenkins
2: Hibbard
3: Cole
4: Hines
5: Parling
6: Warburton
7: Tipuric
8: O'Brien
9: Phillips
10: Sexton
11: North
12: O'Driscoll
13: Tuilagi
14:
15: Halfpenny

Apart from Bowe there's no 14 that I like. Cuthbert really isn't as good as people make out IMO, his defence is questionable - but not as bad as Ashton's. Who else is there really?

 

[coonor]

Working with a 38-man squad - the 37 of 2009 +1 because of the added prop on the bench rules.

Bolded for players who should already have their plane ticket.

Props: Healy, Jenkins, Vunipola, Jones, Cole, Ross

Healy and Jenkins have done enough. Vunipola just beats out James for me. James is a little too prone to giving away penalties, and Vunipola should have started every game from autumn to now, looks quality for the future. Can't comment on Sheridan, but may change to him in due time. Jones is the most obvious name in the Lions squad and almost certain to start the first test. Cole is out of form, but who else? As for the third spot, god knows. Ross vs Wilson for me.

Hookers: Hibbard, Owens, Best

If the first Lions test was tomorrow, I would have 2 Hibbard 16 Owens. Hibbard's had a good season and has backed it up with some great international performances, best tight-carrier available. Owens has been a tackle-machine from the bench, made some impressive bench appearances. Best had a poor tournament by his standards, but remains third-choice because of an otherwise good season. I will not even consider him if he doesn't improve his lineout throwing though. I'm hoping for Strauss to get back from injury or for Hartley to return to reasonable form. Youngs is far, far too limited as a forward.

Locks: AWJ, Parling, Evans, POC, Hines

I rate O'Connell very highly. An AWJ/O'Connell partnership would be ideal. But POC needs to prove form and fitness first. Until the last two matches of the 6N, I forgot exactly how good AWJ is. The fact he can do so well after just returning from injury speaks a lot about him. Parling has a phenomenal work rate for a second row. Evans beat Ryan this tournament, it's up to Ryan to prove himself again. Haven't seen much of Hines, but he's gotten a lot of praise. Hamilton... I'll be watching him carefully. He's had one of his best seasons, but can be prone to giving away penalties.

Backrow: Robshaw, Lydiate, Warburton, Tipuric, SOB, Faletau, Morgan

Very little needs to be said about Robshaw, Tipuric and SOB I think. Robshaw and SOB are imo the two hardest working flankers of the Championship. Tipuric provides something unique for a backrower - generates quicker turnover ball than any other and is also great when linking with backs. Faletau beats Heaslip as a "high work-rate 8" and SOB is the "third 8". I edge Morgan over Beattie, but would be happy with either. Lydiate needs to prove form and fitness, but is in if he hits the heights of last year. Warburton needs to prove the last two games weren't blips. Wood and Beattie are the next two on the list.

Scrum-halves: Laidlaw, Care, Phillips

Laidlaw is the only one who could be said to be decent? Definitely improved into the tournament. I'm no fan of Phillips, but he does provide a different kind of 9. Murray is terrible. Youngs makes horrendous mistakes, poor box kicks, has little of the zip he broke out onto the scene with. Care had one or two blips, but brings a little urgency to the game. I wish there were others available to be honest.

Fly-halves: Biggar, Burns, Sexton

I think these are far ahead of the others available. Farrell is too limited, but gets in if Sexton is out with injury.

Centers: Twelvetrees, Roberts, BOD, Tuilagi

Terrible area of the squad to pick. BOD faded through the 6N, but is a cert. There isn't a more mixed player than Tuilagi. Makes loads of meters, but often doesn't let the ball go further down the line when a try is on and misses a lot of tackles. Roberts is inconsistent - has two average games for every one great one. Twelvetrees for another bolter, but it's more of a dream and I'm pretty certain Barritt will go.

Outside backs: JSD, Zebo, Bowe, Visser, Halfpenny, Hogg, ?

Interesting area of the squad. JSD could be our 2013 Shane - a guy that can make a piece of magic when in desperate need. Zebo was the best winger of the 6N up until injury. Bowe is proven quality. But all three of these are currently injured and need to prove form and fitness. Their potential replacements would be Cuthbert, Gilroy and North. Visser is in because he's the most prolific try scorer about. Halfpenny is obvious, Hogg is a clear second-best full-back at the minute, and the last spot is for one of Brown, Kearney, Foden and Byrne I'd guess.

14 Welsh, 10 English, 9 Irish, 4 Scots, 1 undecided.


"My guy is good because he's won these medals" doesn't really work in team games. Donald won the world cup...

But it's notable that Irish posters love Sexton whereas every other nation casts their doubts over him. He's been playing for probably the top European club of the last 5 years. His pack does half of the work, the backs outside him do another quarter. It can be easy to look good when you get that kind of pack dominance and those kind of backline options. The fact that he's so inconsistent when playing for Ireland demonstrates another side to me.

Not to say he's bad at all. He's still top 3 in B&I and worthy of going on the Lions, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as him starting. I can't see what evidence puts him so far ahead of Burns and Biggar. As far as the guy who said he's the second best outhalf in the world. Hell no. Nick Evans is clear second.

I can see a lot of evidence that would put him ahead of both of them. Burns is completely untested and is at best third choice for his country let alone the Lions. How can you suggest someone who, albeit has potential, yet has no big game experience or performance at a level anywhere near the Lions is not miles behind Sexton at the moment. As for Biggar, the point about the powerful forwards and quality backs that you made about Sexton is just as applicable for Biggar in this 6N. Wales, unlike Ireland and Leinster this season have had virtually all there key players, bar a few available, yet he still hasn't exactly excelled. To be honest, I think Biggar is a good option but at this level he's a passenger completely determined by the players around him. On the other hand Sexton is a proactive player able to take the game with by the throat and lead a team to victory. If the Heineken Cup Final 2011, v England 2011, v Argentina 2012, and countless other games over the last 4 years isn't evident of that then I really don't know what is!

 

[dullonien]

A fit Sexton is the Lions best option. I think it's silly people are questioning this. There are some slight doubts over his international form from time to time, but regardless he's shown enough to be ahead of any other option atm. Biggar is growing at international level, and has been good at regional level for the past couple of seasons, but he's not a complete outhalf yet. His defence isn't as good as Sexton's, nor is his attacking game. His game management, and kicking are on par, or possibly slightly better, but that's a close call. Biggar probably has the clear advantage in place kicking, but that won't be important for the Lions, and Sexton is still a very decent place kicker.

As for 2nd best in the world, quite possibly, although that probably says more about the quality of 10's he's up against (other than Carter, who is still the top dog by a considerable distance). Citing Nick Evans is a little silly, because Sexton's provincial form is probably superior. Nick Evans hasn't proven he can step-up to international level, and for all we know might have more problems than Sexton has in the transition. This is why I don't like people citing just club/provincial/regional form as reasons why a player should be considered as one of the best in their position. There is still a huge difference between even HC level and international level (nothing at club level has even come close to matching the intensity and speed of the Wales v England game on Sat). This is why I wouldn't consider Steffon Armitage or Sheridan, they haven't been tested at international level for a while, and in Sheridan's case wasn't all that great at international level other than the odd showing against Aus.

 

[Peat]

"My guy is good because he's won these medals" doesn't really work in team games. Donald won the world cup...

But it's notable that Irish posters love Sexton whereas every other nation casts their doubts over him. He's been playing for probably the top European club of the last 5 years. His pack does half of the work, the backs outside him do another quarter. It can be easy to look good when you get that kind of pack dominance and those kind of backline options. The fact that he's so inconsistent when playing for Ireland demonstrates another side to me.

Not to say he's bad at all. He's still top 3 in B&I and worthy of going on the Lions, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as him starting. I can't see what evidence puts him so far ahead of Burns and Biggar. As far as the guy who said he's the second best outhalf in the world. Hell no. Nick Evans is clear second.

Leinster win medals because of Sexton, New Zealand won the World Cup despite Donald. Difference. The second half performance against Northampton is as close as I've seen a player come to single handedly winning a game. Not a good comparison.

I really don't want to make out Sexton is some perfect being exempt from criticism - he's really not and I think some of the Leinster fans are far too uncritical of him at times - but this is ridiculous going the other way. So ridiculous I just can't let it go. The vast majority of fans I've come across reckon he's the best in the British Isles. The beeb pundits did their XVs back in December or so, every single one had in as 10 - the only unanimous selection. Nick Evans put him in his XV as well. I've seen him handily win polls for your Lions 10 on English forums. I would love to know what evidence you've got for every other nation casting doubt on him, everything I've seen says that's completely untrue.

And to talk down his Leinster performances as products of a superior team while ignoring the crap around Ireland when bringing that up is logically inconsistent. And if you can't see what evidence places him so ahead of Burns and Biggar - neither as proven or as experienced, one definitely not as defensively sound, the other lacking the same all round attacking game - then I don't know what to say, because you're not watching the same games as me. And, dare I say it, given your club loyalty/the club loyalty of your housemate, showing rather considerable amounts of bias.

 

[Ospreylian]

Not really touching a nerve morejust making people worry about your mental health. Sexton is the second best outhalf in the world saying he is simply a kicker is the funniest thing I've seen today, thanks for that. Why do you think he was outhalf for the best attcking team in Europe these past few years? There is nothing that Sexton does not have to his game. He's a strong defender, fantastic passer, a breaking threat, good boot though he doesn't use it too much and s very good goal kicker. The best thing about Sexton is his mind. He may be very arrogant but he has incredible vision, sets the highest standards and is one of the most determined people I have ever seen. I'm going to post this again I suggest you watch it.
I'm not sure if this is the angry response you're looking for but I hope you're happy.

I find it funny how certain posters on here get really ultra defensive over certain players, to the point where they seem to take things personally. Some people seem to have distorted what I said. I do not doubt for one second that Sexton is a great player. I have seen he has class and what he has done for Leinster. However, I have hardly ever seen him play consistently at international level, and therefore I question his game management at international level atm.

I don't see what is wrong with me questioning a player's form. When people start saying things like "do you watch rugby?" or that I'm making people "worry about my mental health" it is just taking things a little overboard is it not? To the former, of course I watch bloody rugby, why else would I be posting regularly on a forum? And of the latter, thank you for your concern over my mental wellbeing but I think I'll carry on voicing my opinions on this forum whether or not people agree or take it as a personal jibe. I just don't get why people get so bloody angry, it perplexes me. Anyone can say what they like about Biggar and I'll take what they say and try and make a valid argument back, that actually makes logical sense, rather than saying something petty and melodramatic like "do you actually watch rugby?". What a ridiculous question.

At INTERNATIONAL level I have rarely seen Sexton try anything flash. I just personally like a fly half who breaks the line a bit more or takes a few more risks.

In regards to your last comment Big Ginger 8, " I'm not sure if this is the angry response you're looking for but I hope you're happy" - Of course I wasn't looking for an angry response, I was looking for some discussion and sensible debate. Not an avalanche of over-sensitive Irish posters ranting about how much of a nutcase I am.

EDIT: oh, and a lot of people seem to think Sexton is far above anyone else purely based on a match in 2011 or one in the autumn. On that basis, should we just play the whole England squad that beat New Zealand? It is ridiculous to ignore current form and pick players on a match from 2011. Martin Johnson made that mistake with his England squad that included veterans from 2003.

 

[psychic duck]

I find it funny how certain posters on here get really ultra defensive over certain players, to the point where they seem to take things personally.

You should have seen how defensive Munster fans get if you suggest O'Gara isn't all that great. 4 years ago, the Irish were all saying how he should be a shoo in for Lions 10 simply because of one drop goal in a Grand Slam, ignoring the fact that he wasn't all that great for the rest of the match, and Stephen Jones always proved himself a much better player when in direct competition.

 

[Peat]

If you're going to write two paragraphs on people's internet debating styles and love of hyperbolic, tongue in cheek ott expressions, I am actually going to worry about your mental health. I feel significantly less well for investing a sentence on it.

And if you're going to question Sexton's form for Ireland, that's very easily quashed. His last two full games involved 120 minutes of high quality attacking rugby and then 40 minutes where Ireland couldn't get hold of the ball and he defended like a mad mutha. Possibly his best back to back games for Ireland in ages in fact. 2 tries, 3 assists against Argentina.

 

[big ginger 8]

I find it funny how certain posters on here get really ultra defensive over certain players, to the point where they seem to take things personally. Some people seem to have distorted what I said. I do not doubt for one second that Sexton is a great player. I have seen he has class and what he has done for Leinster. However, I have hardly ever seen him play consistently at international level, and therefore I question his game management at international level atm.

I don't see what is wrong with me questioning a player's form. When people start saying things like "do you watch rugby?" or that I'm making people "worry about my mental health" it is just taking things a little overboard is it not? To the former, of course I watch bloody rugby, why else would I be posting regularly on a forum? And of the latter, thank you for your concern over my mental wellbeing but I think I'll carry on voicing my opinions on this forum whether or not people agree or take it as a personal jibe. I just don't get why people get so bloody angry, it perplexes me. Anyone can say what they like about Biggar and I'll take what they say and try and make a valid argument back, that actually makes logical sense, rather than saying something petty and melodramatic like "do you actually watch rugby?". What a ridiculous question.

At INTERNATIONAL level I have rarely seen Sexton try anything flash. I just personally like a fly half who breaks the line a bit more or takes a few more risks.

In regards to your last comment Big Ginger 8, " I'm not sure if this is the angry response you're looking for but I hope you're happy" - Of course I wasn't looking for an angry response, I was looking for some discussion and sensible debate. Not an avalanche of over-sensitive Irish posters ranting about how much of a nutcase I am.

I'm sure there are players you'd get "ultra defensive" about. At least no one called you a blind preumptuous asshole. The way you set it up seemed to me to be WUMing, that's the way I saw it.

You like someone flash great. How many international outhalves does that work for? It's not really working for Cooper at the moment before you say him. Also why mention Biggar if you like someone flash? Nothing he has done recently especially at international level has been at all flash. What exactly in your book consitutes flash by the way?

You've already said you didn't watch the Argentina match. So I'm honestly asking just which international games have you watched of Sexton in the last year and a bit? He's been much more consistent. Breaking is something Sexton can do and he does take risks as well is particualary fond of taking a quick tap to catch oposition napping e.g. England and Australia in 2011.

As you didn't see it here's highlights from the Argentina match. Sexton either scores or gives the assist. Notably switching the direction of play twice. To me the pass at about 1:23 is most definitely "flash".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7ld-4rZg9HI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Ospreylian]

You should have seen how defensive Munster fans get if you suggest O'Gara isn't all that great. 4 years ago, the Irish were all saying how he should be a shoo in for Lions 10 simply because of one drop goal in a Grand Slam, ignoring the fact that he wasn't all that great for the rest of the match, and Stephen Jones always proved himself a much better player when in direct competition.

Totally agree Duck, just because a player does well for club (behind a pack of amazing ball-carrying forwards) does not mean he will thrive in the international environment. The reason I mention Burns quite a lot is that, from what I've seen, it seems like he is one of those 10s that shines even when his team are on the backfoot - something i rarely see Sexton do. And in response to those saying Burns is 3rd choice at best for England, the management have got it completely wrong and he is better than both Flood and Farrell. He offers far more in attack and would really ignite that England back line if given the chance. I just get so frustrated that some people think only starting internationals should be considered for the lions. One of the main players I would consider that hasn't played for his country for a long time is James Simpson-Daniel - I know he has been mentioned a few times on here. What a class winger, someone who could have/should have been the English Shane Williams.

 

[Draggs]

Dan Biggar has really been maturing into a steady and composed international outside half.
His decision making and positioning has simply been bang on every time. I always liked his confidence on field, and now he has the skills to back it.
Now that he has finally been given a proper run instead of starting with the Friday night ****wits against the Islanders, he is becoming a very good player.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm in a squad picking mood so I'll give it a shot.

1. Healy, Jenkins, Vunipola

Healy and Jenkins are musts, Healy will be a vital player in Australia, he's played them twice and has had two top class games one of which was one of his first caps. Jenkins is a class player also and a brilliant substitution for Healy around the 65 minute mark. Vunipola will be a nice player for the midweek side, he'd attack and defend very well but I cannot see him catching Healy and Jenkins.

2. Hibbard, Best, Youngs

Hibbard is leading Best and Youngs at the moment but it's by no means over, I'd say the squad will have a much better atmosphere than what the Irish one this 6nations was I'm certain his form will bounce back and Youngs has developed into a very good player very quickly and if he could continue that trend he could find himself starting for the Lions. Hibbard has been brilliant after being given the start, I wish he's cut his hair though.

3. Jones, Cole, ???

Jones outclassed Cole yesterday but that doesn't take away from the fact that Cole was the best TH prop until then, this position is far from being decided but Jones is leading at the moment. The other 3 will be decided on club form, Ross wil probably get it when he's back with Leinster.

4. Evans, Parling

Both very good Parling edging it at the moment.

5. Wyn Jones, Hines

I love Nathan Hines and he's a top class player these to would have a battle on their hands for the start. Hamilton could replace Hines but he isn't effective in the loose.

6. O'Brien, Robshaw

O'Brien is the better player, he's even better at 6 and he's incredibly consistent I can't see Robshaw overtaking him.

7. Warburton, Tipuric

Both brilliant 7's Tipuric both on the plane as far as I'm concerned, I reckon Warbs will start if he can stay consistent.

8. Faletau, Heaslip

Faletau was the best of the 8's in the 6nations and I have Heaslip there because his form is on the up and he's already played three Lions tests and was brilliant in them also without him the backrow would have no previous Lions and experience plays a part on Lions tours.

9. Laidlaw, Phillips, Care

All have positives and all have flaws one of the positions that's up for grabs, I think they all could contain Genia when playing well.

10. Sexton, Biggar, Madigan

I know this won't happen but I would love it to. Having Halfpenny and Sexton who are both excellent place kickers and Biggar who is more than competent leaves bringing Farrell redundant. Most people are calling for Burns but I'd rather bring Madigan, he's just as exciting a huge try scoring threat he's played in some very important league and HEC games for Leinster and he looked brilliant against Italy when he finally decided to take the 10 roll of Jackson. Of course I'm biased here, he's one of my favorite players but more importantly Farrell will tour his dad is the coach.

12. Scott, Roberts

Scott has performed brilliantly for Scotland this 6nations, he's more experienced than both Marshall and Twelvetrees as del as looking better, he's a more than solid defender, he has an eye for a gap, he's good with the boot and his passing is good. Roberts and him vary hugely in style and there'd be an interesting race between them.

13. O'Driscoll, Tuilagi

O'Driscoll to start and captain, Tuilagi as possibly the best impact sub around.

11. North, Zebo

Two best performing wingers this 6nations Zebo was unlucky if he bounces back for Munster he should tour North would be very difficult to budge though.

15. Halfpenny, Hogg, Kearney

Halfpenny is almost assured to start and Hogg has been better than Kearney but due to the fact that when they're all on top form I think Kearney is the best player I think he has to go.

14. Bowe, Cuthbert

Cuthbert was the best of the 14's this 6nations but if Bowe hits form it's hard to look past him.

14 Welsh 10 Irish 7 English 4 Scots

Biased and far fetched in places but it's what I think.

 

[Ospreylian]

If you're going to write two paragraphs on people's internet debating styles and love of hyperbolic, tongue in cheek ott expressions, I am actually going to worry about your mental health. I feel significantly less well for investing a sentence on it.

And if you're going to question Sexton's form for Ireland, that's very easily quashed. His last two full games involved 120 minutes of high quality attacking rugby and then 40 minutes where Ireland couldn't get hold of the ball and he defended like a mad mutha. Possibly his best back to back games for Ireland in ages in fact. 2 tries, 3 assists against Argentina.

HA! I am actually the one who started the whole tongue-in-cheek tone of this debate with my comment:

I know, it is hilarious that there are players out there better than your precious, untouchable, Wilkinson-esque Sexton

I think the face sort of was a bit of a giveaway with how I intended people to take it lol. It's just other people took what I said really personally, which I find quite amusing tbh.

Ok seeing as two people have now commented on my mental health, there's something I need to let everyone know. This is really hard for me to say... but... guys... I think I might be a basket case. That's right, you guessed it. Completely loopy. So loopy that I often manage to conjure up the audacity and evil to post my thoughts on certain rugby players on a forum. :blink:

 

[munstermuffin]

All of Ye

 

[big ginger 8]

HA! I am actually the one who started the whole tongue-in-cheek tone of this debate with my comment:

I know, it is hilarious that there are players out there better than your precious, untouchable, Wilkinson-esque Sexton

I think the face sort of was a bit of a giveaway with how I intended people to take it lol. It's just other people took what I said really personally, which I find quite amusing tbh.

Ok seeing as two people have now commented on my mental health, there's something I need to let everyone know. This is really hard for me to say... but... guys... I think I might be a basket case. That's right, you guessed it. Completely loopy. So loopy that I often manage to conjure up the audacity and evil to post my thoughts on certain rugby players on a forum. :blink:

Nah you're funny was pretty tongue in cheek.

 

[Peat]

I like how Ospreylian prefers to concentrate on the sledging than the inconvenient facts

 

[Draggs]

Keep this on topic.
We can expect plenty of bickering on Lion threads (it's just one of those things we must accept and embrace) but this one is getting boring.

 

[j'nuh]

Leinster win medals because of Sexton, New Zealand won the World Cup despite Donald. Difference. The second half performance against Northampton is as close as I've seen a player come to single handedly winning a game. Not a good comparison.

I really don't want to make out Sexton is some perfect being exempt from criticism - he's really not and I think some of the Leinster fans are far too uncritical of him at times - but this is ridiculous going the other way. So ridiculous I just can't let it go. The vast majority of fans I've come across reckon he's the best in the British Isles. The beeb pundits did their XVs back in December or so, every single one had in as 10 - the only unanimous selection. Nick Evans put him in his XV as well. I've seen him handily win polls for your Lions 10 on English forums. I would love to know what evidence you've got for every other nation casting doubt on him, everything I've seen says that's completely untrue.

And to talk down his Leinster performances as products of a superior team while ignoring the crap around Ireland when bringing that up is logically inconsistent. And if you can't see what evidence places him so ahead of Burns and Biggar - neither as proven or as experienced, one definitely not as defensively sound, the other lacking the same all round attacking game - then I don't know what to say, because you're not watching the same games as me. And, dare I say it, given your club loyalty/the club loyalty of your housemate, showing rather considerable amounts of bias.

Good post. I'll redirect my replies to all through this one.

I never said, nor wanted to say, that Sexton looks amazing entirely because of the team he plays in. But you can't argue against that it helps a fly-half to look good when they've got other players to work well off of. It's not exclusive to Sexton either - any fly-half is effected by being in a good/poor team. The faster your forwards recycle the ball, the faster your wingers chase your kicks, the more accurate the passes from your scrum-half come... they all effect the performance of a fly-half. Sexton will look better playing for Leinster than he would playing for, say, Connacht. When you play for the best team in Europe over the last 5 years, and you play well, but then you never seem to play so consistently for your national team, then it's perfectly reasonable for people to ask these questions.

Biggar has Sexton beaten for recent international form. Burns may not have proven himself internationally, but I suppose I'm just backing his exceptional season form. Up until injury, the best fly-half in the Premiership and contender for player of the season. I don't know which of the three is the best. So I've taken all three. But I'm happy to admit I don't know which one is the best - I'm just a little confused as to where the evidence that Sexton is so superior to the other two.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Biggar has Sexton beaten for recent international form.

I don't mind people saying there are players who are better than Sexton but this makes no sense to me. Pretty much the last game Sexton played he completely outclassed Biggar, I'm not counting the England game, he played 25 minutes and he didn't really see the ball at all, he got injured when he started to look good.

 

[big ginger 8]

Good post. I'll redirect my replies to all through this one.

I never said, nor wanted to say, that Sexton looks amazing entirely because of the team he plays in. But you can't argue against that it helps a fly-half to look good when they've got other players to work well off of. It's not exclusive to Sexton either - any fly-half is effected by being in a good/poor team. The faster your forwards recycle the ball, the faster your wingers chase your kicks, the more accurate the passes from your scrum-half come... they all effect the performance of a fly-half. Sexton will look better playing for Leinster than he would playing for, say, Connacht. When you play for the best team in Europe over the last 5 years, and you play well, but then you never seem to play so consistently for your national team, then it's perfectly reasonable for people to ask these questions.

Biggar has Sexton beaten for recent international form. Burns may not have proven himself internationally, but I suppose I'm just backing his exceptional season form. Up until injury, the best fly-half in the Premiership and contender for player of the season.

I have to question this sorry. Sexton being injured really seems to have damaged his recent form in a lot of people's eyes. Apart from half an hour against England Sexton's recent international form is basically the Argentina match where he was motm and the Wales match where he was excellent.