Your Lions Squad Following the 6N

[Aristodemus]

Is this a wind-up?

Because it isn't filled with Welsh players?

 

[cyRil]

Because it isn't filled with Welsh players?

Aye!
No, I just don't agree with a lot of it. Cole, Morgan, O'Brien maybe, Robshaw at 7, O'Driscoll at 12 and Maitland.

 

[Aristodemus]

Aye!
No, I just don't agree with a lot of it. Cole, Morgan, O'Brien maybe, Robshaw at 7, O'Driscoll at 12 and Maitland.

Anything you don't agree with is a wind up then, gotcha.

 

[cyRil]

Anything you don't agree with is a wind up then, gotcha.

Glad we've got that sorted

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Aye!
No, I just don't agree with a lot of it. Cole, Morgan, O'Brien maybe, Robshaw at 7, O'Driscoll at 12 and Maitland.

I'm not an expert on NH rugby but I'm non-partial and I find it very hard to leave out any of those player bar Morgan. That said i don't know which 8 I'd chose. Maybe O'Driscoll isn't what he once was but I can imagine that with Tuilagi it might be a very effective midfield partnership. Just too many quality players. I suppose it depends on what you want out of the players.

Wales and England are certainly the better teams but against Aus, isn't it Scotland and Ireland who've had the most success recently?

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I'm not an expert on NH rugby but I'm non-partial and I find it very hard to leave out any of those player bar Morgan. That said i don't know which 8 I'd chose. Maybe O'Driscoll isn't what he once was but I can imagine that with Tuilagi it might be a very effective midfield partnership. Just too many quality players. I suppose it depends on what you want out of the players.

Wales and England are certainly the better teams but against Aus, isn't it Scotland and Ireland who've had the most success recently?

Yes let's not discuss the Welsh record...

Im interested in a SH point of view though, what do you think of the head to heads? Ie, Jenkins vs Healy, O'Brien vs Robshaw, BOD vs Tuilagi, Sexton vs Farrell (vs Biggar)?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yes let's not discuss the Welsh record...

Im interested in a SH point of view though, what do you think of the head to heads? Ie, Jenkins vs Healy, O'Brien vs Robshaw, BOD vs Tuilagi, Sexton vs Farrell (vs Biggar)?

I don't think it's necessarily a case of who is the best in their position but rather what do you want each position to perform and who is the best at that and then settled combinations ITO 9 to 10 and 2 to the line-out options etc would be a bonus as these guys won't get a lot of time together. So what i'm basically trying to say is picking based on 1 vs 1 is probably not the right way to go about it and I don't know enough of current form to be able to say. Looking forawrd to the tour though!

 

[lionsno9]

Starting XV for 1st test as it stands

1 C Healy
2 R Ford
3 A Jones
4 A W Jones
5 POC / G Parling
6 S Warbuton
7 J Tipuric
8 J Beattie
9 M Phillips
10 J Sexton
11 G North
12 M Scott
13 BOD
14 S Hogg
15 L Halfpenny

16 G Jenkins
17 R Best / R Hibbard
18 D Cole
19 G Parling / POC
20 SOB
21 G Laidlaw
22 M Tuilagi
23 A Cuthbert

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Because it isn't filled with Welsh players?

No because it has James Hook.

 

[TommyV]

PROPS:

Cian Healy - The on-form loosehead. Not short of scrummaging strength, excellent ball-carrier and good at the breakdown. Favourite to start.

Gethin Jenkins - Could be favourite to start on the basis of his experience and ability at the breakdown, but so far short of form.

Ryan Grant - No stand-out English prop as they're searching for a nailed-on starter. Grant has impressed me for Scotland.

Adam Jones - Favourite to start on current form, purely because of pure scrummaging strength. Gives us a great platform and will never be dominated in the set-piece.

Dan Cole - Lacking in form. His ability at the breakdown - getting his hands on the ball a lot for a tight-head - goes in his favour, but his form come scrum-time hasn't been good enough.

Mike Ross - Better than any Scottish tight-head for me, and a good #3 in his own right, so he tours.

HOOKERS:

Richard Hibbard - The form hooker of the 6N. Great in the scrum, has contributed well in the loose and improving in his fitness and line-out throwing. Needs to maintain his discipline though.

Rory Best - Hasn't impressed since the start of the 6N, and had a bad game against Italy to finish. Could still be the favourite to start based on experience and proven class, though.

Tom Youngs - No other stand-out candidates really, so Young deserves to tour in the 3rd spot for me on the basis of his ball-carrying and quality at the breakdown.

SECOND ROW:

Joe Launchbury - Might be too early but why not? Offers the kind of ball-skills that not many others in the second-row can. In great form and an abundance of youth and energy.

Geoff Parling - Like Launchbury, extremely energetic. Great determination, good all-round game, in excellent form and a master at the line-out.

Alun Wyn Jones - On form, probably the best second-row amongst the Home Nations. He's returned from injury and looked good so far.

Ian Evans - I don't think O'Connell will be fit enough and Ryan has struggled to impose himself at the line-out. Evans has bossed that for Wales and been a consistent performer.

BACK-ROW:

Chris Robshaw - Haven't seen the Wales game but he's excelled throughout the Six Nations. Great determination, energy, work-rate, carries in abundance and links play well. May be a 6.5, but who cares? He's a very good one, consistent and an armband candidate.

Sam Warburton - His form seems to be returning, and there's really no better 7 in the Home Nations at the breakdown when he's at his best IMO. That's something that whilst I think a bit over-rated, we may eventually need to counter the Aussies.

Justin Tipuric - For me his form has been oustanding for a while. Has a bigger attacking impact than most in the back-row because of his footballing skills, and can contribute at the breakdown. Link-up play is second to none.

Sean O'Brien - Has been one of the few bright sparks for Ireland. He's carried a tonne again although not as noticeable and destructive in that regard as he has been from 7, but his all-round game has really improved, he's a consistent performer and can cover the back-row. Must tour.

Toby Faleteu - He's had a really strong Six Nations, offers an athletic presence, plenty of energy and a strong defensive game from 8.

Ben Morgan - Purely on the basis that I think stylistically, we need a huge ball-carrier at 8. Beattie has had a good Six Nations, but for me Morgan is on another level. Heaslip's form has been up and down and he doesn't strike me as that player really anymore, he's a bit more rounded and thus more competing with Faleteu for a spot and the Welshman has just had a better campaign. Hopefully Morgan is fit.

SCRUM-HALF:

Mike Phillips - His ball might often be slow, but still probably the stand-out candidate based on his big game ability. He always steps up, he's a great leader, performs in pressure occasions and carries well.

Danny Care - Prefer him over Youngs still, who only performs behind a dominant pack. Needs to improve his box-kicking, but otherwise he gets quickball and is nifty making breaks from the base of rucks and spotting gaps.

Greg Laidlaw - Only because I think he's a bit more tactical and has a better kicking game than Youngs. Hasn't impressed me as much as others in the tournament though aside from his goal-kicking.

STAND-OFF:

Johnny Sexton - Might have been injured and not shown a lot therefore in the 6N, but still the standout fly-half in the NH. More international form and experience than his counterparts and his club form has been second to none for a number of years now. Has a great all-round game.

Dan Biggar - Has impressed me coming in for Wales in this 6N. He's taken to the pressures of the tournament and the Welsh #10 shirt well. Great goalkicker, kicks well from hand although a little too much, and a greater attacking threat with ball in hand than Farrell.

Owen Farrell - Tempted not to take him because really what he's shown throughout the tournament is a strong defence, great goalkicking ability and ability to handle pressure. Really the latter two seem to have fallen off a bit against Wales. That said, I think from an attacking sense - through not really a threat running the ball - he's a bit better than given credit for if he's given creative backs (not Brad Barritt or a Tuilagi who runs straight at everyone and a Goode who can't hit the channels) outside him, and tactically can kick well.

CENTRE:

Manu Tuilagi - If only he was utilized properly, or had a creative back like Twelvetrees alongside him, or didn't believe his own hype in terms of his power. Really his all-round game is so much better than he showed. He can offload in the tackle, has really good vision of support runners, can run great angles, has excellent pace. Combine that with his power and he could be so destructive, but instead his power is ALL he seems to be using and he's just a dull, predictable crash-ball option running flat and straight in to contact.

Brian O'Driscoll - Shame his Ireland career (potentially) had to end with an aggressive and unnecessary stamp, and his 6N campaign bar Wales hasn't really been that good, but then neither has Ireland's. One of the better performers against Italy though, and still class. And let's be honest, will anybody be as pumped up this tour? Unlikely, still a huge leader in that regard who is used to the ocassion and must still tour. Tempted to say I'd start him at 12. I really think Tuilagi can be a destructive force with the right back alongside him and BOD has the skills to give Tuilagi good service.

Jamie Roberts - His form improved against England, defensively he's excellent and thus makes the need for Brad Barritt redundant because he offers so much more in attack, or at least when he's not performing doesn't stifle the offence as much as Barritt does IMO. Hopefully his form can get back to his best.

Luke Marshall/Billy Twelvetrees/Matt Scott - On the fence on this one. Davies hasn't been that good, and really is just a strong runner. He may be great in that regard, but Tuilagi and BOD can do enough damage from 13 and we need another 12. Davies distribution is so bad he's immediately out of contention for that role, so there's a wildcard pick here between Marshall, Twelvetrees and Scott. The latter has had the most impressive 6N being a consistent performer, while Marshall came in and had a strong game against Scotland but got injured against Italy, and 36 hasn't had enough game time. Currently Scott, Marshall then 36 in that order, but can and will change depending on club form up until the tour.

WINGS:

George North - Size, power, speed and great finishing ability. Strong enough defensively. Has to tour for me.

Tommy Bowe - If he's fit, I think he must tour. Again good size for a winger, proven try-scoring ability and experience.

Alex Cuthbert - He may be a liability defensively, but really he's the best finisher and try-scorer in the HN at the moment. His size, power, speed and finishing ability is something I think will be feared.

Craig Gilroy - Visser's finishing ability has impressed, but I think Gilroy can do more damage in an in-form team with better service. And impresses me defensively.

FULL-BACK:

Leigh Halfpenny - The 2nd best full-back in the world at the moment, and if he learns how to attack from the full-back position he could be untouchable at 15. One of the most consistent performers on the planet who hasn't had a bad game in ever. A rock defensively, immensely solid under the high-ball, a big boot and a great goalkicker. The most nailed on starter in the Lions squad.

Rob Kearney - To hell with Stuart Hogg. Had a couple of really good games against England and Italy scoring great tries on the counter-attack, then went missing against Wales and got shown up defensively against France by Fofana. Has a big boot and great pace, but for me just doesn't have the proven qualities of a full-back like Kearney who I feel is much more solid and dependable, and on form is a good enough attacking force in his own right. This could change depending on form though, and I haven't seen much of Hogg for his club-side, so we'll see.

 

[dullonien]

That squad looks spot on to me TommyV. If I were selecting purely on a player v player basis, I'd say that Paul James is a better option than Ryan Grant, and Ken Owens has been very impressive from the bench if there are question marks over Youngs. However in order to better balance the squad in terms of nationality, it's fair that both miss out.

The only other problem area is at 10. I don't see what Farrell really offers, but is there any other candidates. Burns is the obvious one, but he's completely untested. Might be worth the risk though.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Madigan>Burns>Farrell>Jackson

 

[Peat]

That's a cracking squad. And I like Grant, any prop who gets through 53 tackles in 5 games while only missing 3 without getting shown up in the scrum is my sort of player.

That said, if I was a hooker and I saw that back-row selection, I'd be swearing a blue streak. I'd try and get Wood in there somehow at least.

 

[dullonien]

That said, if I was a hooker and I saw that back-row selection, I'd be swearing a blue streak. I'd try and get Wood in there somehow at least.

The Welsh trio are better in the lineout than they are given credit for. Warburton and Tipuric are very athletic and get up in the air. Being on the lightweight side, lifters find it easy to get Tipuric up into the air as well.

I've seen a lot of selections in the backrow recently made based on apparent lineout benefits (Croft and Shingler come to mind), and they haven't had any impact in that area. Parling and Ian Evans offer good middle or front lineout jumping options, one of Tipuric or Warburton are good at the tail, and I'm sure someone like Alun-Wyn or Launchbury if playing can jump at the front.

Only Parling really offers us a defensive lineout option though......

 

[Peat]

The Welsh trio are better in the lineout than they are given credit for. Warburton and Tipuric are very athletic and get up in the air. Being on the lightweight side, lifters find it easy to get Tipuric up into the air as well.

I've seen a lot of selections in the backrow recently made based on apparent lineout benefits (Croft and Shingler come to mind), and they haven't had any impact in that area. Parling and Ian Evans offer good middle or front lineout jumping options, one of Tipuric or Warburton are good at the tail, and I'm sure someone like Alun-Wyn or Launchbury if playing can jump at the front.

Only Parling really offers us a defensive lineout option though......

Croft made 2 steals in his 100 odd minutes and took the majority of lineout ball against you, I'd say he made an impact. Not that I'm calling for him, not unless he goes on the rampage for Leicester, but real quality back-row lineout options can make a huge difference.

And I'm not talking down Warbs or Tipuric - Robshaw takes plenty of ball as well, Morgan takes a few as well - but we're talking good lineout jumpers here. And there's plenty of good lineout jumpers over there too. I want some sodding outstanding lineout jumpers. 6'4" guys with rockets in their heels. Scott Higginbotham has 3 inches of most of those back-rows and he will be lurking at the back waiting everytime it goes to the tail. Who do you want taking that, Wood or Tipuric?

Be kind to your hookers - <s>don't dump them in the dumpster after beating the crap out of them while on coke</s> - give them the best lineout targets you can. Within reason that is. But it's not like Wood hasn't totally justified a place on the plane.

 

[TommyV]

That squad looks spot on to me TommyV. If I were selecting purely on a player v player basis, I'd say that Paul James is a better option than Ryan Grant, and Ken Owens has been very impressive from the bench if there are question marks over Youngs. However in order to better balance the squad in terms of nationality, it's fair that both miss out.

The only other problem area is at 10. I don't see what Farrell really offers, but is there any other candidates. Burns is the obvious one, but he's completely untested. Might be worth the risk though.

Totally forgot about James for some reason. I'd probably go with him too. I agree Burns might be worth the risk, but until he gets gametime for England it's just too much of one.

 

[irelandfan123]

Lets see now
1. Healy (well he is a bull and is solid enough, thinking that Jenkins hasn't done much either without the help of Jones in the scrum)
2. Hibbard (moblie enough and can throw a dart)
3. Jones (had a great scrummaging season)
4. Hamilton (workhorse grey hasn't really impressed me this year so there you go)
5. Parling ( Dark horse this year nobody would have mentioned him this year, really stamped his mark need a lineout marshall)
6. O'Brien (can tackle ad run huge man had some great stats this year)
7. Brown (best poacher of the six nations and is mentally strong and a captian... Warburton doesn't get near my test side as he dips in form and you need a consistent leader an set of forwards)
8. Faleteu (good in close quarters and does the dirty work)

9. Phillips (tested lion, stronger and has a faster service than Murray)
10. Biggar (as this is after the six nations I am omitting sexton as he didn't play much, this guy is a great attacker and Halfpenny can kick the goals)
11. North (big lad decent six nations)
12. Scott (has been the only inside centre to put his hand up, made a good few runs against england, france and italy)
13. BOD (best defensive 13 of the tournement and he will be the best player you can have in a close match)
14. Cuthbert (don't like him put he can find the touch line)
15. Halfpenny (hasn't missed a tackle in 2 YEARS, he is a great player had a good six nations although I expect Kearney to make ground on him once the tour starts)

16. Best (been too inconsisent for my liking, no other stand out hooker tho)
17. Jenkins (great in the loose and solid in the scrum)
18. Cross (suprise selection but he just dismantled the Irish scrum and he scares me)
19. A W Jones (brought back the form but hasn't played enough during the six nations to cement starting)
20. Tipuric (class act would be starting if he hadn't have had such a battle with Warburton and not started every game, but he will be useful on the hard ground)
21. Murray (too slow to be starting, good enough kicker not so much passer)
22. Farrell (kicked well and knows how to pass, keeps the clock ticking over but with halfpenny there is isn't much use)
23. Hogg (can cover 11 13 14 and 15 and can notch over the long distant kicks so perfect to take off the bench)

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

Gatland has said he wants a 37 man squad so here goes.

Full Backs-Halfpenny,Hogg

Wings-North,Visser,Cuthbert,Zebo/Maitland (Zebo if fit)

Centres-O'Driscoll,Tuilagi,Roberts,Twelvetrees

Fly Halves-Sexton,Biggar,Farrell

Scrum Halves-Phillips,Laidlaw,Care

Loose Heads-Healy,Jenkins,Grant

Hookers-Best Hibbard,Ford

Tight Heads-Jones,Cole,Ross

Locks-Evans,Jones,Parling,Launchberry,Gray

Back Row-O'Brien.Robshaw,Warburton,Tupuric,Croft,Heaslip,Falatau

14 Welsh 9 English 7/8 Irish 6/7 Scottish

 

[dullonien]

Who do you want taking that, Wood or Tipuric?

I don't really know tbh. I haven't watched Wood play week in week out to comment if his lineout jumping is better. Tipuric is used as a regular tail jumper for the Ospreys, and he's had plenty of success there this 6 nations. I've always thought that lightweight backrowers make good tail options, because they can be lifted easier. After all, it's not all about the jumper and how 'springy' they are, but a combination of this and the lifters doing a good job. This is another strong aspect of Tipuric's game imo, with his ball handling skills coming into use as well.

The main difference is on opposition throws, where lifters often can't react quickly enough, and thus the jumper has to do more actual jumping.

7. Brown (best poacher of the six nations and is mentally strong and a captian... Warburton doesn't get near my test side as he dips in form and you need a consistent leader an set of forwards)

Have you got a link to the poaching stats out of interest? I'm interested to see where Warburton and Tipuric stand, taking into account that both only played half a tournament overall.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

How many players did Gatland say he was going to take? Has anybody got the article, can't find it see.