Your Lions Squad Following the 6N

[j'nuh]

Easy decision. Robshaw.

The media hype him up to be so much a better player and get much more credit than Tom Wood simply because Robshaw is captain, and because the media have hyped him up many just automatically select him above Wood for that reason. Wood in my opinion is better, more dynamic, wins lineout and doesn't compare badly to Robshaw at much at all to be honest. Wood was one of the star players in that New Zealand win and man of the match IIRC.

Robshaw was by far the most impressive player for England vs. Wales. He won two MotM awards this tournament and was England's player of the tournament. I think his tackle and carry stats are better than any other England player and he also has more meters run than any other England forward. His work rate is phenomenal. Robshaw is in much better form than Wood, but also in better form than Warburton.

 

[TommyV]

http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/175100.html

"I'd imagine there will be 35 players made up of a 19 to 16 split between forwards and backs, possibly 20 to 15," he said. "We'll have three hookers, three 9s, three 10s and an extra prop. It means that in nearly all other positions there'll be two players fighting it out for one spot."

This was what I was basing my selection on largely. Seems this might have been just a general idea and he's changed his mind about how many players will be touring and the make-up of the squad.

 

[Peat]

Well, Gatland is probably more reliable than the Independent... Guess they were assuming 37 as that's what went last time.

 

[psychic duck]

Robshaw was by far the most impressive player for England vs. Wales. He won two MotM awards this tournament and was England's player of the tournament. I think his tackle and carry stats are better than any other England player and he also has more meters run than any other England forward. His work rate is phenomenal. Robshaw is in much better form than Wood, but also in better form than Warburton.

How was he when he got totally shown up by the Warburic in the Welsh back row. And also embarrassingly palmed off by Mike Phillips. To add to that, he was slow and out of position for Warburton's break before the try. I also don't see how he is in better form than Warburton after being totally outplayed when in direct opposition.

Robshaw is a good player, but not as good as made out to be. I bet Kelly Brown would be at least on a level Robshaw for stats yet nobody has him an automatic selection for Lions squad. Robshaw just gets a whole load of hype thanks to being England captain. Tom Wood is a more dynamic version of Robshaw.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Heard it here first lads, Robshaw is a fupping terrible rugby player. Basically the worst man to ever step foot onto a rugby pitch.
Not fit for Weston Supermare Veterans 4ths bench.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Duck, Robshaw would've given a penalty away if he made that hit. The best thing about that GIF is it shows why Ashton should start for the Lions.

 

[munstermuffin]

Heard it here first lads, Robshaw is a fupping terrible rugby player. Basically the worst man to ever step foot onto a rugby pitch.
Not fit for Weston Supermare Veterans 4ths bench.

So you finally warming to Tony Buckley and he has gone up in your eyes

 

[psychic duck]

Heard it here first lads, Robshaw is a fupping terrible rugby player. Basically the worst man to ever step foot onto a rugby pitch.
Not fit for Weston Supermare Veterans 4ths bench.

This is exactly what you did on the Dan Cole thread as well. Can I not just think that the English media has overrated one of their players without you reading it simply as "he's a terrible player"? Even though I said he was a good player in the post.

And I will say it again. Robshaw is a good player.

But he isn't the shoo-in for the Lions team and tour he's built up to be, and isn't all that much better than Kelly Brown or Tom Wood for example who nobody talks about.

Surprised, considering 99% of your posts are very good debating and informative, that simply because "English player" and "overhyped" come in the same sentence you automatically post the extreme negative which nobody has actually said. Overhyped is different than being awful.

 

[SelimNiai]

Heard it here first lads, Robshaw is a fupping terrible rugby player. Basically the worst man to ever step foot onto a rugby pitch.
Not fit for Weston Supermare Veterans 4ths bench.

Not hard when he plays for the 2nd-best-club-in-the-towns-Veterens 4ths bench

 

[Peat]

Surprised, considering 99% of your posts are very good debating and informative, that simply because "English player" and "overhyped" come in the same sentence you automatically post the extreme negative which nobody has actually said. Overhyped is different than being awful.

Because when you go on these overboard campaigns, attacking a player at every opportunity and posting countless gifs which are meant to show horrendous failings in their game but tend to be no big issue at all, people struggle to take it seriously. Not least because people can come back with detailed posts showing disagreement, which will then be ignored - might as well jump straight to flippancy, at least there will be a reply that way. And shouting "I SAID HE'S GOOD!" when constructing long and overly negative posts just doesn't wash, the tone and words simply don't match up.

And that's from someone whose last posted Lions team didn't contain Robshaw. I don't think you're entirely wrong. Just that the way you've gone about it smells like a fishing trip.

 

[psychic duck]

Because when you go on these overboard campaigns, attacking a player at every opportunity and posting countless gifs which are meant to show horrendous failings in their game but tend to be no big issue at all, people struggle to take it seriously. Not least because people can come back with detailed posts showing disagreement, which will then be ignored - might as well jump straight to flippancy, at least there will be a reply that way. And shouting "I SAID HE'S GOOD!" when constructing long and overly negative posts just doesn't wash, the tone and words simply don't match up.

And that's from someone whose last posted Lions team didn't contain Robshaw. I don't think you're entirely wrong. Just that the way you've gone about it smells like a fishing trip.

Now you're totally exaggerating my post too negatively as well.

Mike Phillips hand off GIF, was just an example of an incident of a pretty poor game he had. I didn't say he was overhyped purely on that.

Secondly, I was responding to the point that said "he was by far the best England player against Wales" and saying that I disagreed. And pointed out that he was outplayed by the Welsh back row. That's hardly "ignoring" a post. And you're free to enlighten me as to what he did well against Wales if you disagree.

Thirdly, I don't know why you think I "shouted". I did say he is a good player, but not as good as made out. Don't know why some seem to think that automatically means he's an awful player just because I don't think he's as good as he's made out.

 

[Aedaphon]

Stats are only half the picture.
Tipuric is excellent, a nuisance all over. He and Warburton will have a great rivarly for years. Warburton was actually blindside for Tipuric in the U20's, I think.

It should now be obligatory to quote Scott Johnson when making any comment of this sort.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Because when you go on these overboard campaigns, attacking a player at every opportunity and posting countless gifs which are meant to show horrendous failings in their game but tend to be no big issue at all, people struggle to take it seriously. Not least because people can come back with detailed posts showing disagreement, which will then be ignored - might as well jump straight to flippancy, at least there will be a reply that way. And shouting "I SAID HE'S GOOD!" when constructing long and overly negative posts just doesn't wash, the tone and words simply don't match up.

And that's from someone whose last posted Lions team didn't contain Robshaw. I don't think you're entirely wrong. Just that the way you've gone about it smells like a fishing trip.

Put far more eloquently than I ever could.

 

[Peat]

No, I don't think I'm going to bother. That was me, trying to help you, to understand why people treat those posts so negatively. It is because that's how they come across and you can go on until the cows go home about that's what not what you're saying but sometimes truth is in the eye of the beholder, and, believe me, they're really f**king negative. If you don't wish to accept this or change your posting style, fine, but I'm not going to bother - because I'm either arguing with a troll or someone with a very odd blind spot, and neither's much point or much fun.

The other thing you do which I would change and makes it not worth engaging with you at moments like this, is responding at length to criticisms of your counter-hype, while ignoring reasonable counter-points to you argument. Such as cmac pointing out he's not going for the hit as he knows it would give away a penalty. Such as me pointing out Robshaw did little wrong in the Warburton break.

Good luck to you, I'm done.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Test starters in italics.

Props: Gethin Jenkins, Ryan Grant, Adam Jones, Dan Cole, Paul James
Yes, no Healey. Let's skirt over that. Geth's back on top form, Grant's been massively impressive this tournament and then Paul James goes as cover for both sides, although he'd go as a specialist loosehead anyway.

Hookers: Richard Hibbard, Rory Best, Ken Owens
Still not sold on Youngs and Ford's been fairly ambiguous of late, so Ken sneaks in, and isn't a bad man to fall back on. Hibbard's my starter, but Best's a pretty good back-up.

Second Row: Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Jim Hamilton, Joe Launchbury
Launchbury, Hamilton & AWJ can all also cover the back row. I've grown less and less enthusiastic about Donnacha Ryan as time goes by. He'd've been my starter a few months ago. Now he's no longer on the plane. In fact, there are plenty of players who struggle to get in, even if I have been a tad generous with the numbers.

Flankers: Tom Wood, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Chris Robshaw, Sean O'Brien
I'm a big fan of Tom Wood. I'm split between him and Sam for the 6 shirt, and so have actually not bothered highlighting one or the other. I've also, again, been generous with the numbers and decided to take a few spares. Kelly Brown's been good, but didn't really trouble my selection.

No. 8: Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan
Beattie's a bit of a show pony and Heaslip's form has, fittingly, slipped. Actually, even if the autumn I wouldn't've bothered with him, as these two are, in my eyes, head and shoulders above the rest. Ben Morgan squeezes it, but it'd be tight.

Scrum Half: Ben Yougns, Mike Phillips, Greig Laidlaw
Danny Care has played his way out of selection in the past few weeks. Phillips, of whom I'm still not a fan, edges it on his knack of playing well in the big games.

Fly Half: Dan Biggar, Jonathan Sexton, Owen Farrell
Love you Biggar. Outplayed Farrell in Cardiff, who lost the cool head he's been famous for. So he nudges it. And I've always thought Sexton was overrated, but there aren't really many other options.

Centres: Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Davies, Manu Tuilagi, Gavin Henson
Yes, I went there. Shoot me.

Wingers: George North, Alex Cuthbert, Tim Visser
I recognise it's only three, but we can shift the backline about, even though I'm not a fan of the 'Oh, it's just the wing, anyone can play there' philosophy. Halfpenny shifts along, although I'd also kinda like to see Hogg given a go for a bit, just to see how he goes. No other wingers impressed me. Hell, Visser and North haven't impressed me.

Fullbacks: Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg
Kearney is the most overrated player in Europe. This is a view I have had for some time and continue to stand by. He doesn't warrant a place. Brilliant on the 2009 tour. That's not good enough reason for me to pick you, Mr. Jesus. Halfpenny starts. Halfpenny is a god. Which makes him Kearneys dad. I do not want to think about the logistics of this.

I believe that makes 37. Gatland said he'll take 36/7, with 3 hookers, scrum halves and fly halves, so I've tried to stick to that.

 

[j'nuh]

How was he when he got totally shown up by the Warburic in the Welsh back row. And also embarrassingly palmed off by Mike Phillips. To add to that, he was slow and out of position for Warburton's break before the try. I also don't see how he is in better form than Warburton after being totally outplayed when in direct opposition

Re: Phillips. If he'd have done the alternative - nail Phillips with a tackle - he'd have been penalised for not being 10m from the mark. Although he didn't make the tackle, he did close down that gap between himself and Launchbury though and send Phillips down the wing, where Phillips had less space. I can't view that as a mistake. Being handed off when you're running backwards is hardly something to be embarrassed about. It's like being sidestepped when you're sat on the floor.

Re: Warburton break. I'm not sure what you're blaming him for here? I count that Robshaw was one of three players on the blindside. Should he really have abandoned the blindside to cover the base of the ruck? Bearing in mind the 5m gap it would have opened for a run down the blindside? He wasn't even the player on the blindside closest to the ruck - Care was closer. Hartley abandons the base of the ruck, and Adam Jones blocks him to stop him from reacting to this. It was in fact a missed tackle from Wood on Faletau that stretches the openside to allow Warburton the run in the first place.

You're still ignoring the fact that his stats make him the top tackler and carrier for the England team and the fact that he won two MotM awards. Warburton's form has been questionable recently. Should so much emphasis be put on him having two decent games? One of which was in a team which were on fire? (Remember that even Barritt put in a decent attacking shift vs. NZ when England was on fire.) If he can show that kind of form for club until the end of the season then he's a cert for the tour. But Robshaw form is much longer-lived. As is SOB's and Tipuric's.

 

[big ginger 8]

Test starters in italics.

Props: Gethin Jenkins, Ryan Grant, Adam Jones, Dan Cole, Paul James
Yes, no Healey. Let's skirt over that. Geth's back on top form, Grant's been massively impressive this tournament and then Paul James goes as cover for both sides, although he'd go as a specialist loosehead anyway.

Hookers: Richard Hibbard, Rory Best, Ken Owens
Still not sold on Youngs and Ford's been fairly ambiguous of late, so Ken sneaks in, and isn't a bad man to fall back on. Hibbard's my starter, but Best's a pretty good back-up.

Second Row: Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Jim Hamilton, Joe Launchbury
Launchbury, Hamilton & AWJ can all also cover the back row. I've grown less and less enthusiastic about Donnacha Ryan as time goes by. He'd've been my starter a few months ago. Now he's no longer on the plane. In fact, there are plenty of players who struggle to get in, even if I have been a tad generous with the numbers.

Flankers: Tom Wood, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Chris Robshaw, Sean O'Brien
I'm a big fan of Tom Wood. I'm split between him and Sam for the 6 shirt, and so have actually not bothered highlighting one or the other. I've also, again, been generous with the numbers and decided to take a few spares. Kelly Brown's been good, but didn't really trouble my selection.

No. 8: Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan
Beattie's a bit of a show pony and Heaslip's form has, fittingly, slipped. Actually, even if the autumn I wouldn't've bothered with him, as these two are, in my eyes, head and shoulders above the rest. Ben Morgan squeezes it, but it'd be tight.

Scrum Half: Ben Yougns, Mike Phillips, Greig Laidlaw
Danny Care has played his way out of selection in the past few weeks. Phillips, of whom I'm still not a fan, edges it on his knack of playing well in the big games.

Fly Half: Dan Biggar, Jonathan Sexton, Owen Farrell
Love you Biggar. Outplayed Farrell in Cardiff, who lost the cool head he's been famous for. So he nudges it. And I've always thought Sexton was overrated, but there aren't really many other options.

Centres: Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Davies, Manu Tuilagi, Gavin Henson
Yes, I went there. Shoot me.

Wingers: George North, Alex Cuthbert, Tim Visser
I recognise it's only three, but we can shift the backline about, even though I'm not a fan of the 'Oh, it's just the wing, anyone can play there' philosophy. Halfpenny shifts along, although I'd also kinda like to see Hogg given a go for a bit, just to see how he goes. No other wingers impressed me. Hell, Visser and North haven't impressed me.

Fullbacks: Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg
Kearney is the most overrated player in Europe. This is a view I have had for some time and continue to stand by. He doesn't warrant a place. Brilliant on the 2009 tour. That's not good enough reason for me to pick you, Mr. Jesus. Halfpenny starts. Halfpenny is a god. Which makes him Kearneys dad. I do not want to think about the logistics of this.

I believe that makes 37. Gatland said he'll take 36/7, with 3 hookers, scrum halves and fly halves, so I've tried to stick to that.

So about 10.5 Welsh players starting? Are you wumming? Seriously I have to ask and no you can't just skip over the exclusion of Healy​ one e for heavens sake....anyway why?

 

[j'nuh]

If Gatland is taking 36-37, I don't get it. It means that some unfortunate person may start a game AND bench in the same week. Why not take 38: 1st XV, 2nd XV, plus a shared bench (8)? 6 props, 3 hookers, 5 locks, 7 backrowers, 3 SHs, 3 FHs and 11 centers/outside backs?

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

So about 10.5 Welsh players starting? Are you wumming? Seriously I have to ask and no you can't just skip over the exclusion of Healy​ one e for heavens sake....anyway why?

I loved that game on Saturday because now I have genuine means of justification for being totally biased. 90% of test selection also comes from the warm-up games anyway, so no XV can really be read that far into, hence why I presented it as a squad rather than a list with my starting team.

I just don't like Healey and never have, but it's more a case that we can't take everyone, and he misses out as the fourth-best loosehead in my opinion (Fifth, but Corbisero's injured). All are betetr scrummagers than him, and while none are as good carriers, I think there's enough in other aspects of their game to make up for it. I like a hard-working prop, not a bloody-minded showpony.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I loved that game on Saturday because now I have genuine means of justification for being totally biased. 90% of test selection also comes from the warm-up games anyway, so no XV can really be read that far into, hence why I presented it as a squad rather than a list with my starting team.

I just don't like Healey and never have, but it's more a case that we can't take everyone, and he misses out as the fourth-best loosehead in my opinion (Fifth, but Corbisero's injured). All are betetr scrummagers than him, and while none are as good carriers, I think there's enough in other aspects of their game to make up for it. I like a hard-working prop, not a bloody-minded showpony.

Healy held his own vs Jones, Cole, Domingo and Cittadini this 6 nations, even getting the better of Jones and Cittadini at times. Not bad in my opinion...