Your Lions Squad Following the 6N

[Ospreylian]

Try harder please.

I'd say the same to Sexton

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd say the same to Sexton

Ok this is really how you're trying to get your entertainment today? Hard luck.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think Sexton an arrogant C&*t. But seriously Sexton as a "just kick points" player. The man is the best 10 in Northern Hemisphere for running a back line and even though people take puss out of him for doing it so often he executes the best looping moves in world rugby and is probably the most balanced 10 available to Lions.
Jackson is still a bit away from being an international 10.
Burns had a bit of form but is poor defensively and suspect at kicking tactically.
Biggar playing well but is hit and miss and Hook is no more an international 10 that Tom Court is a TH prop. As in fair enough if you don't like Sexton but at least give a decent-ish name like Flood or hell Wilkinson.

 

[Draggs]

Now now children, settle down.
It's Monday and Uncle Draggs doesn't want to deal with this, play nice.

 

[Ospreylian]

Ok this is really how you're trying to get your entertainment today? Hard luck.

What I said was a serious suggestion up for discussion. I genuinely think Burns and Biggar are better options at fly half at the moment. Both of them offer more varied styles of play, are both steady with ball to boot/kicking to touch, and have good attitudes these days.

I don't know why Irish fans seem to get all sensitive the moment someone suggests a fly half may be slightly better than Sexton at the moment. I seem to touch a nerve every time I dare set foot on this territory! Haha.

EDIT: Uncle Draggs is a legend.

 

[big ginger 8]

What I said was a serious suggestion up for discussion. I genuinely think Burns and Biggar are better options at fly half at the moment. Both of them offer more varied styles of play, are both steady with ball to boot/kicking to touch, and have good attitudes these days.

I don't know why Irish fans seem to get all sensitive the moment someone suggests a fly half may be slightly better than Sexton at the moment. I seem to touch a nerve every time I dare set foot on this territory! Haha.

EDIT: Uncle Draggs is a legend.

Not really touching a nerve more just making people worry about your mental health. Sexton is the second best outhalf in the world saying he is simply a kicker is the funniest thing I've seen today, thanks for that. Why do you think he was outhalf for the best attcking team in Europe these past few years? There is nothing that Sexton does not have to his game. He's a strong defender, fantastic passer, a breaking threat, good boot though he doesn't use it too much and s very good goal kicker. The best thing about Sexton is his mind. He may be very arrogant but he has incredible vision, sets the highest standards and is one of the most determined people I have ever seen. I'm going to post this again I suggest you watch it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y6ci3yl4330" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm not sure if this is the angry response you're looking for but I hope you're happy.

 

[Draggs]

I will admit, I have always found posting tribute/highlight video's to prove a point silly.
This player is great, here are moments of him playing well. I mean, ****, I am sure with enough footage you could make Jonathan Thomas look like a Lions candidate. (I will say NZ2003 before anybody else does, to save them the time)

 

[big ginger 8]

I will admit, I have always found posting tribute/highlight video's to prove a point silly.
This player is great, here are moments of him playing well. I mean, ****, I am sure with enough footage you could make Jonathan Thomas look like a Lions candidate. (I will say NZ2003 before anybody else does, to save them the time)

What else do you want me to do post all his matches. There good when someone say something like he's only a kicker and the video contains clips showing that not to be the case. Especially when they show many clips from different matches they have their uses.

 

[Draggs]

Not having a pop at you, the comment wasn't even directed at you just saying that there is more to a player than their best moments.
This is true in other threads, I was just making an eloquent observation.
If I were to make a Draggs highlight video it would be me... Well, not videos of me sitting around doing **** all, but stuff that makes me look useful.
I judge players off full tests, not a really long kick and drop goal. (Morne...)

 

[big ginger 8]

Not having a pop at you, the comment wasn't even directed at you just saying that there is more to a player than their best moments.
This is true in other threads, I was just making an eloquent observation.
If I were to make a Draggs highlight video it would be me... Well, not videos of me sitting around doing **** all, but stuff that makes me look useful.
I judge players off full tests, not a really long kick and drop goal. (Morne...)

I know you weren't just pointing out they do have their usefulness.

 

[coonor]

The factor the matter is, Sexton has won 3 Heineken Cup in the last 4 years with a MOTM performance in 2011. When he's playing be it for Ireland or Leinster the team is a complete different beast. During the 90ish minutes he played for Ireland in this 6N we scored 3 times more tries than we did in the rest of the championship. He's a big game player with a modern CV that surpasses any other potential Lions 10.

 

[Peat]

Jonny Sexton has arguably been the most important player at the best team in European rugby for the past couple of years or so. He varies things nicely; he possibly underuses the kick, and so would you if you had Leinster's backs outside you, but he exercises it nicely. He can go himself, he's not the greatest breaking fly-half but he's got a fair bit of power and acceleration and if a gap opens up he will punish it. Excellent pass, changes the options well. His defence is absolutely savage and he has no superior in this regard in the 10 jersey certainly in Europe, and I'd go with anywhere.

I have to wonder if Ospreylian has actually watched Sexton for Leinster at all. The idea that he is a kick everything fly-half is, frankly, risible. Sexton is best at keeping ball in hand and unleashing a talented set of backs. It's interesting to look at the HEC stats for Sexton and Biggar - Biggar has kicked more ball away and taken on more himself. Sexton has passed more and despite carrying less often, has made more metres. He's made 4 clean breaks to Biggar's 1. Want a flair fly-half? It would appear Sexton is your man ahead of Biggar, which confirms what I already thought - Biggar controls a game well, but he's no creative genius.

As for Burns and Jackson, I am as big a fan of both young men as exists on this board. Ahead of Sexton? Nooo. Burns might be equal as an attacking threat, hard to compare directly due to a lack of top level rugby, certainly ahead as a runner, but he's adequate in defence at best and doesn't have the experience of Sexton. I am still laughing at the idea that Jackson's there yet, he's still learning his trade and while he's coming along well he's just not there. Should be one day, maybe soon, not now.

Now, fair enough you can make criticism of Sexton in an Ireland shirt for being a bit too conservative at times - and sometimes not conservative enough, too often for me he persists with a backline going nowhere when the time is to put boot through ball. But I can refute this with three easy facts

1) He has also put in some storming performances in an Irish jersey - Argentina, Australia, first half of Wales, most times he walks on against England, and so on. There should be no doubting his ability to put in top international performances; just maybe his consistency.

2) Ireland/Kidney/Kiss are absolute crap at the moment and he must be judged with this in mind. Dan Carter would struggle with them at the moment.

3) You can just judge him on club form, and considering who you're comparing him to, we should. Jackson's played three games of international rugby. This is Biggar's first consistent run in an international shirt since 2010. Burns has a cap. And James Hook last had a real run in the 10 jersey at international level in 2007! Since there's no consistent body of international work to judge against you have to revert back to club form. Where Sexton has been the best fly-half going by a very embarrassing margin.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I think Sexton has been completely overrated lately. Sure he was great a season or two ago, but I think he has gradually gone downhill since. I would have Biggar, Burns, and maybe even Paddy Jackson and James Hook ahead of Sexton. I just don't think he offers much in attack these days. I don't want to see a steady "let's kick the points over" kind of fly half this tour. I want someone with real flair, like Burns has shown all season for Gloucester.

Do you watch rugby?

 

[Thingimubob]

A fully fit Sexton is still my 1st choice for the Lions, definitely don't see him as a 'kick it all' type fly half. I think his game is very well rounded and I'd love to see him running the backline of epic potential that's available to the lions! I think Dan Biggars forced his way into the squad after a very confident run at fly half, and Freddie Burns is also a great shout for a surprise pick too!

Anyone see Brian Moore's choices for a 1st and 2nd Lions XV on twitter? Interesting picks there:

My Lions XV - Halfpenny, Visser, BOD, Davies, North, Sexton, Phillips, Grant, Best, Jones, O'Connell, Hamilton, Wood, Tipuric, Faletau

Lions 2nd XV Hogg, Cuthbert, Roberts,Tuilagi, Zebo, Biggar, Care, Healey, Hibbard, Cole, Parling, Wynn-Jones, Brown, Warburton, Robshaw

Other squad members: Farrell, Bowe, Hartley,O'Brien, Jenkins, Evans and B Youngs

 

[big ginger 8]

Why is it no Englishman can seem to spell Healy correctly?<_<

 

[j'nuh]

Working with a 38-man squad - the 37 of 2009 +1 because of the added prop on the bench rules.

Bolded for players who should already have their plane ticket.

Props: Healy, Jenkins, Vunipola, Jones, Cole, Ross

Healy and Jenkins have done enough. Vunipola just beats out James for me. James is a little too prone to giving away penalties, and Vunipola should have started every game from autumn to now, looks quality for the future. Can't comment on Sheridan, but may change to him in due time. Jones is the most obvious name in the Lions squad and almost certain to start the first test. Cole is out of form, but who else? As for the third spot, god knows. Ross vs Wilson for me.

Hookers: Hibbard, Owens, Best

If the first Lions test was tomorrow, I would have 2 Hibbard 16 Owens. Hibbard's had a good season and has backed it up with some great international performances, best tight-carrier available. Owens has been a tackle-machine from the bench, made some impressive bench appearances. Best had a poor tournament by his standards, but remains third-choice because of an otherwise good season. I will not even consider him if he doesn't improve his lineout throwing though. I'm hoping for Strauss to get back from injury or for Hartley to return to reasonable form. Youngs is far, far too limited as a forward.

Locks: AWJ, Parling, Evans, POC, Hines

I rate O'Connell very highly. An AWJ/O'Connell partnership would be ideal. But POC needs to prove form and fitness first. Until the last two matches of the 6N, I forgot exactly how good AWJ is. The fact he can do so well after just returning from injury speaks a lot about him. Parling has a phenomenal work rate for a second row. Evans beat Ryan this tournament, it's up to Ryan to prove himself again. Haven't seen much of Hines, but he's gotten a lot of praise. Hamilton... I'll be watching him carefully. He's had one of his best seasons, but can be prone to giving away penalties.

Backrow: Robshaw, Lydiate, Warburton, Tipuric, SOB, Faletau, Morgan

Very little needs to be said about Robshaw, Tipuric and SOB I think. Robshaw and SOB are imo the two hardest working flankers of the Championship. Tipuric provides something unique for a backrower - generates quicker turnover ball than any other and is also great when linking with backs. Faletau beats Heaslip as a "high work-rate 8" and SOB is the "third 8". I edge Morgan over Beattie, but would be happy with either. Lydiate needs to prove form and fitness, but is in if he hits the heights of last year. Warburton needs to prove the last two games weren't blips. Wood and Beattie are the next two on the list.

Scrum-halves: Laidlaw, Care, Phillips

Laidlaw is the only one who could be said to be decent? Definitely improved into the tournament. I'm no fan of Phillips, but he does provide a different kind of 9. Murray is terrible. Youngs makes horrendous mistakes, poor box kicks, has little of the zip he broke out onto the scene with. Care had one or two blips, but brings a little urgency to the game. I wish there were others available to be honest.

Fly-halves: Biggar, Burns, Sexton

I think these are far ahead of the others available. Farrell is too limited, but gets in if Sexton is out with injury.

Centers: Twelvetrees, Roberts, BOD, Tuilagi

Terrible area of the squad to pick. BOD faded through the 6N, but is a cert. There isn't a more mixed player than Tuilagi. Makes loads of meters, but often doesn't let the ball go further down the line when a try is on and misses a lot of tackles. Roberts is inconsistent - has two average games for every one great one. Twelvetrees for another bolter, but it's more of a dream and I'm pretty certain Barritt will go.

Outside backs: JSD, Zebo, Bowe, Visser, Halfpenny, Hogg, ?

Interesting area of the squad. JSD could be our 2013 Shane - a guy that can make a piece of magic when in desperate need. Zebo was the best winger of the 6N up until injury. Bowe is proven quality. But all three of these are currently injured and need to prove form and fitness. Their potential replacements would be Cuthbert, Gilroy and North. Visser is in because he's the most prolific try scorer about. Halfpenny is obvious, Hogg is a clear second-best full-back at the minute, and the last spot is for one of Brown, Kearney, Foden and Byrne I'd guess.

14 Welsh, 10 English, 9 Irish, 4 Scots, 1 undecided.

The factor the matter is, Sexton has won 3 Heineken Cup in the last 4 years with a MOTM performance in 2011. When he's playing be it for Ireland or Leinster the team is a complete different beast. During the 90ish minutes he played for Ireland in this 6N we scored 3 times more tries than we did in the rest of the championship. He's a big game player with a modern CV that surpasses any other potential Lions 10.

"My guy is good because he's won these medals" doesn't really work in team games. Donald won the world cup...

But it's notable that Irish posters love Sexton whereas every other nation casts their doubts over him. He's been playing for probably the top European club of the last 5 years. His pack does half of the work, the backs outside him do another quarter. It can be easy to look good when you get that kind of pack dominance and those kind of backline options. The fact that he's so inconsistent when playing for Ireland demonstrates another side to me.

Not to say he's bad at all. He's still top 3 in B&I and worthy of going on the Lions, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as him starting. I can't see what evidence puts him so far ahead of Burns and Biggar. As far as the guy who said he's the second best outhalf in the world. Hell no. Nick Evans is clear second.

 

[dullonien]

j'nuh, you were going well until you got to the outside backs. I think North and Cuthbert are certs. North makes few mistakes, but is still very dangerous when given half a chance. Cuthbert has his flaws, but he's a proven try-scorer. Visser offers less than him imo, and possibly has even worse defensive qualities. Cuthbert's defence wasn't an issue other than the Ireland game tbh, and in the England game he was excellent defensively. His out and out pace isn't matched by anyone else available, and certainly not by Visser.

I can't see JSD going tbh. He's unlucky not to have picked up more caps, but this will limit his chances. Bowe would be a good option if he returns to some form. I'm not sure about Zebo either tbh, I'm happy for proven, experienced players like Bowe or Lydiate to return from injury and be included, but Zebo has only just really broken into both the Munster and Ireland starting line-ups ) I know he's been involved with Munster for a while, but he's only really put in consistently good performances this season after some troubles with injury and form). I'd include one more fullback, and take Kearney, with the option of playing Hogg or Halfpenny on the wing, especially Hogg who isn't secure enough under the high ball, or in defence for my liking at 15.

I'm not sure if Warburton needs to prove anything either. He's a proven performer, who after a tough year or so has proven that he's back in form. The blip was his dip in form, not the last two games. His dip in form was massively exaggerated anyway, his work rate, tackling and carrying were still very, very good; it was just that he wasn't managing the 4+ turnovers per game he was before/during the WC (amounts may be exaggerated). If other players playing at openside are allowed to be excused for not turning over loads of ball because their work rates are high, then Warburton shouldn't be judged too harshly for his turnover rates during his dip in form. It didn't help that there was an in-form Tipuric that everyone wanted to see start ahead of him, exaggerating Warburton's dip in form even further.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

"My guy is good because he's won these medals" doesn't really work in team games. Donald won the world cup...

But it's notable that Irish posters love Sexton whereas every other nation casts their doubts over him. He's been playing for probably the top European club of the last 5 years. His pack does half of the work, the backs outside him do another quarter. It can be easy to look good when you get that kind of pack dominance and those kind of backline options. The fact that he's so inconsistent when playing for Ireland demonstrates another side to me.

Not to say he's bad at all. He's still top 3 in B&I and worthy of going on the Lions, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as him starting. I can't see what evidence puts him so far ahead of Burns and Biggar. As far as the guy who said he's the second best outhalf in the world. Hell no. Nick Evans is clear second.

Sure Carter has played with brilliant All Blacks and Crusaders teams all his career, average player.

 

[irelandfan123]

Sure Carter has played with brilliant All Blacks and Crusaders teams all his life, average player.

BOOM what a comeback
One of the reasons sextons in one of the best teams is because Sexton makes it so, I mean without Sexton and O'Dirscoll Leinster has looked average but its the same if you remove Carter and McCaw form the AB's

 

[big ginger 8]

"My guy is good because he's won these medals" doesn't really work in team games. Donald won the world cup...

But it's notable that Irish posters love Sexton whereas every other nation casts their doubts over him. He's been playing for probably the top European club of the last 5 years. His pack does half of the work, the backs outside him do another quarter. It can be easy to look good when you get that kind of pack dominance and those kind of backline options. The fact that he's so inconsistent when playing for Ireland demonstrates another side to me.

Not to say he's bad at all. He's still top 3 in B&I and worthy of going on the Lions, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as him starting. I can't see what evidence puts him so far ahead of Burns and Biggar. As far as the guy who said he's the second best outhalf in the world. Hell no. Nick Evans is clear second.

But circumstances do work. Was Donald motm in his final? Did he spark a seemingly impossible comeback scoring two tries? He's not really inconsistent with Irealnd anymore he's turned a corner in this regard his last number of games for Ireland he's been excellent and the key man. It's not just because of our replacements that all the pundits were saying he's the man on whom our championship hung. All of Irelan'd best performances in the last few years have come with Sexton at 10. He is most definitely ahead of Burns and Biggar (who btw kicked the ball the most in the tournament) and there is evidence even if you're choosing to ignore it. Actually I'd ask what evidence is their to put Biggar and Burns ahead of Burns? Have you ever thought maybe the reason the Leinster backline looks so good is because Sexton is their? He's a facilitator as much as anything. You have one player from that backline in your squad. One. And the others don't really help too much with his defence and kicking. "Hell" yes I firmly believe Sexton is the second best outhalf in the world and so does Joe Schmidt but he's biased as well so I presume you won't believe him

Oh and do people think Peat is Irish or something? He's also being defending Sexton not just the Irish.