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Would NZ pick Nadolo ?

Have you watched him play sevens? He got burned in the sevens bro. You say his try scoring record is better at international playing for the All Blacks and Nadolo has his playing teams in the PNC. Well last season in the same competition super rugby and with more games he still could not macthed Nadolo who topped the scoring chart for the entire season. You bring up Calep Ralph scoring alot playing for the Crusaders and then said Savea's stats have plenty to do with playing for the Hurricanes. So basically Savea only scores if playing for a great team like the All Blacks or if he were in the crusaders he would too therefore he's not capable of scoring alot playing for a weak team. Well Nadolo scored alot playing for both crusaders and Fiji therefore its safe to assume that if he played for the All Blacks he would be scoring alot too.
Now imagine if Savea was to play for Fiji he wouldn't have alot of game time or even won't be selected because Fiji have better wingers. Nadolo topped the super rugby scoring chart as a winger yet when he plays for Fiji he's a inside centre thats because Fiji have better wingers. Ratini and Viriviri have played professional recently and have been selected for the Fiji squad despite the many options on the wingers we have that shows how good they are. Another Fijian winger whose only been playing professional for a year or so just got selected into the England squad and then another one for the Australia squad. By the way Henry Speight when in Fiji didn't even make the semi final of the Fiji school athletics 100 metres event and that Fijian winger selected for England couldn't even make the wing position for his village team yet they're both in a tier 1 squad.
Face it bro there is a reason why they call the Fiji team the flying Fijian. Anyways in the November test when the All Blacks play England there's a very real possibility of Savea who plays 11 being marked by Roko the Fijian winger in the England squad who plays 14. And you know what the English say about him, he tackles like a man possessed, powerful and brutal, island style. So if Savea thinks he'll be up against a scared Englishman he better think again because he's up against a fellow islander. Roko's motto is meet fire with fire.
 
Ehh, know what. You're right. You sure showed me. Nice!
 
Hehehe Savea is a good winger. Playing behind a quality pack and centres who provide him with quality go forward ball makes it easy to score tries especially if you're powerful. Nalaga and Nadolo would probably score alot too if they were in that all black wing because they're built the same even Alesana Tuilagi the Samoan winger would have the same effect. All of these guys are powerful and with space and go forward ball they're unstoppable.
But to be a top winger you have to have firstly out and out pace like Caucau, Habana, Bobo and Hosea Gear. Then brutal defence like most island wingers. Then positioning like Jane, Jeff Wilson and Howlett. Combine them all then you have the blueprint for the perfect winger. And Caucau in his prime was exactly that followed by Howlett and Jeff Wilson. The current crops of wingers who are close to that probably Jane and Ratini.
 
^^^As I mentioned on the othe thread Savea has plenty of pace. He is a brutal defender too, his positional play is good, as his his work under the high ball, and he has developed a useful kicking game. His only real issue at thr moment is that his error rate is too high. For me he is pretty clearly the best wing in the world at the moment (Not just when playing for the ABs - he was outstanding in a pretty average Canes side this year too). I will have to watch the Fijian wings closely on their upcoming tour, as if they are better than Savea I'm going to be in for a treat!
 
When the All Blacks had Rokocoko they talked him up to be the best winger in the world yet he was on the bench at the blues because Caucau was better (a Fijian winger). And I also told people that another Fijian winger Delasau was better too yet they argued. In the 2007 world cup Delasau (a Fijian winger) was named as one of the wingers in the team of the tournament and was way ahead of Rokocoko. This time again the All Blacks are talking up Savea and I'm telling you Ratini and Viriviri the Fijian super wings are better. Especially Ratini who has the out and out pace of Vunibaka and accelereation of Caucau. I've always said Nalaga is similar to Savea especially in power and speed. In one of the top 14 game where Ratini's team played Nalaga the ball gott kicked way ahead near the try line from about half way and Nalaga and Ratini raced for the ball, my gosh Ratini left Nalaga for dead and I mean daylight dead. I knew Ratini was fast but after that game I was like dang he is mega quick. In a game against Toulon who have both Habana and Mitchell the Aussie winger Ratini read Wilkinson's game and intercepted a pass from him he then left both Habana and Mitchell for dead. Against toulouse he left the French winger and fullback for dead. In a game against Harlequins he left the English winger and fullback for dead in a 80 metre dash. I have no doubt Ratini will become the best winger in the world followed closely by Viriviri who left the entire Toulouse backline for dead including McAlister.
 
When the All Blacks had Rokocoko they talked him up to be the best winger in the world yet he was on the bench at the blues because Caucau was better (a Fijian winger). And I also told people that another Fijian winger Delasau was better too yet they argued. In the 2007 world cup Delasau (a Fijian winger) was named as one of the wingers in the team of the tournament and was way ahead of Rokocoko. This time again the All Blacks are talking up Savea and I'm telling you Ratini and Viriviri the Fijian super wings are better. Especially Ratini who has the out and out pace of Vunibaka and accelereation of Caucau. I've always said Nalaga is similar to Savea especially in power and speed. In one of the top 14 game where Ratini's team played Nalaga the ball gott kicked way ahead near the try line from about half way and Nalaga and Ratini raced for the ball, my gosh Ratini left Nalaga for dead and I mean daylight dead. I knew Ratini was fast but after that game I was like dang he is mega quick. In a game against Toulon who have both Habana and Mitchell the Aussie winger Ratini read Wilkinson's game and intercepted a pass from him he then left both Habana and Mitchell for dead. Against toulouse he left the French winger and fullback for dead. In a game against Harlequins he left the English winger and fullback for dead in a 80 metre dash. I have no doubt Ratini will become the best winger in the world followed closely by Viriviri who left the entire Toulouse backline for dead including McAlister.

I think you're over valuing pace in wingers. Perhaps if you go back twenty or thirty years then that was all that mattered, but now the skill set of wingers has to be so much more diverse. Few people would suggest that the NZ Sevens team is the fastest in the world, but as they've shown over the past couple of years there are more important aspects to playing well than simply being incredibly fast.
 
Bro have you seen the Fijian wingers play both 15s and 7s? The little offloads, side step, goose step, basket ball pass and the tackles well it's like they're tackling a wild boar. People get excited about SBW doing his offloads yet the Fijian wingers have been doing the harlem offloads since the 80's. The positioning well they all play for pro teams and have been adviced and taught about that which is probably the only thing they have to be taught. As for kicking well they hardly need to especially when they can side step goose step and out run everyone else. I've always said wingers who kick a lot either can't step or needs someone to create a gap for them.

Ratini. Check out the second one against Harlequins where he glide past the England wing and fullback.
[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVrWrs8LeWM[/video]

Viriviri gliding past French winger and fullback whom both plays for Toulouse. If you want his sevens tries just YouTube him.
[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL3wT5-FwFU[/video]
 
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When the All Blacks had Rokocoko they talked him up to be the best winger in the world yet he was on the bench at the blues because Caucau was better (a Fijian winger). And I also told people that another Fijian winger Delasau was better too yet they argued. In the 2007 world cup Delasau (a Fijian winger) was named as one of the wingers in the team of the tournament and was way ahead of Rokocoko. This time again the All Blacks are talking up Savea and I'm telling you Ratini and Viriviri the Fijian super wings are better. Especially Ratini who has the out and out pace of Vunibaka and accelereation of Caucau. I've always said Nalaga is similar to Savea especially in power and speed. In one of the top 14 game where Ratini's team played Nalaga the ball gott kicked way ahead near the try line from about half way and Nalaga and Ratini raced for the ball, my gosh Ratini left Nalaga for dead and I mean daylight dead. I knew Ratini was fast but after that game I was like dang he is mega quick. In a game against Toulon who have both Habana and Mitchell the Aussie winger Ratini read Wilkinson's game and intercepted a pass from him he then left both Habana and Mitchell for dead. Against toulouse he left the French winger and fullback for dead. In a game against Harlequins he left the English winger and fullback for dead in a 80 metre dash. I have no doubt Ratini will become the best winger in the world followed closely by Viriviri who left the entire Toulouse backline for dead including McAlister.

There is probably little point in debating with you as you seem to have made up your mind that best wings in the world are all Fijian :)

While I do agree Fiji do produce some good (and even great wings), like Mr Fish I think you are placing far too much emphasis on pure speed, as there is far more to playing on the wing than just speed. It is also worth nothing that 7's and 15's are very different games. Just because one players is great at one form of the game it doesn't mean they will necessarily be great at the other form. Indeed players who are world class at both 7's and 15's are incredibly rare. Barring "freaks" (e.g. Lomu and Cullen) I can only think of one other player of the top of my head that has been outstanding at both forms of the game (Cory Jane). There is the odd player who is very good at both forms - the likes of Vito, Messam, Hendricks etc - but they are the exception rather than the rule.

As far as I can tell Ratini has played approximately 20 matches of professional XV's rugby. Viriviri has played 1. They may well turn out to be the best wings in world rugby, but until they play a lot more rugby - and display their talents on an international stage - they won't even be mentioned in terms of the top wings in the world.

To address a couple of points...

- Caucau could have been the greatest wing of all time. The only thing that stopped this was his love of food.......

- I was a bit fan of Delasau in the 7's, but he wasn't a great XV's player in my opinion. He was one of the most elusive players in world rugby, but his error-rate was huge, and his defense non-existent. He had seasons at both the Crusaders and Highlanders, but was unable to establish himself as a Super Rugby player. This video sums him up perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW7IkOvTDiY

- It is not the AB's talking up Savea. It is the general public watching rugby (not just from NZ either). He continues to perform phenomenally at every level he plays, including test level....

I'm not saying being a wing is about being solely fast but it is a primary criteria that you are. Like how a props criteria is to scrum first. Piutau isn't fast bro. Go watch a few of his sevens game and you'll see what I mean. Anyways if you say wings ain't all about speed then how come you rate Habana? The whole rugby world knows Habana is all speed. Even after 100 international caps he still haven't changed that much.

I agree pace is a primary criteria for selecting wing - if wings don't have sufficient pace they aren't going to go that far (though somehow Caleb Ralph did manage to play a few tests for the AB's....). However you don't need to be lightening quick to be a successful wing. Being lightening quick is certainly an advantage, but isn't essential if you are very strong in other areas. Cory Jane was - in my opinion - the best wing in world rugby or a couple of seasons (2009/2010). Ben Smith was nominated for world player of the year in 2013 for his performances on the wing. Neither of these two have express pace by any means, but that hasn't stopped them from being world class wings...

Habana clearly isn't solely rated because if his speed. He is rated because he is one of the most complete wings in world rugby. He has great anticipation, runs incredible support lines, is a solid defender (especially now as he doesn't run out of the line on defense as often as he used to), and is reliable under the high ball. There are plenty of very fast rugby players on this planet - many fail to make it past club rugby as there is more to playing rugby than being really fast (unless of course you are playing EA Sports Rugby 2008. Then is all about pace..... ;) ).

Piutau is more than fast enough to play on the wing at any level of rugby. He's quicker than Jane. He's quicker than Ben Smith. He would have similar pace to Hosea Gear IMO. I have watched him play a lot of 7's too. He wasn't a great 7's player, but he was used in a role that didn't suit him IMO. He was used in the centre of the park to run straight and hard, and did a lot of work at the breakdown (indeed this was an area he excelled at). This is not a role where you are able to really use any pace you have (Ben Lam is used in this role for the NZ 7's team at the moment, and we seldom get to see his pace, which is actually quite impressive...)....
 
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Mate the heart of my argument is that if you put any of the Fijian wingers in the place of those All Blacks they would more than likely do what those guys have done and even more. Cory Jane was and average sevens player. And Piutau was used as a centre that's because he didn't have the pace to be a winger. Several occasions he was clear and got caught from behind. Everyone knows Fiji's forwards internationally are crap hence the wingers don't have lots of go forward ball and space like the All Blacks do. When you look at club level where the All Blacks wingers and Fijian wingers have same quality balls because of similar forwards then the results is like last season's where Super rugby top try scorer Nadolo with even less games he still was way ahead of Savea, Smith and Jane. And in the Aviva premiership Goneva was the top try scorers despite missing a few games too through injuries. And in the top 14 Talebula was top try scorer.
Put it this way if Savea, Jane and Smith were playing for Fiji and Nadolo, Goneva, Ratini, Talebula and Viriviri played for the All Blacks who do you think will be talked about more?
 
Another point, Sivivatu and Rokocoko both became stars for the All Blacks yet a Fijian winger in the form of Caucau was a level above them when they played in the same competition super rugby. Had Caucau been eligible for NZ he would have been selected and so would Vunibaka. Same again last season at club level Nadolo was better than Savea but he also wasn't eligible for NZ. Speight in the same competition got selected for Aussie.
In England Goneva was the best winger but he wasn't eligible for them so they picked one who was Rokoduguni whom playing behind a England pack would flourish him. Imagine if Goneva was eligible.
 
If Nadolo, as he is now, switched allegiance, he wouldn't make the All Blacks. However, if he had come through an NZ academy, he may well be. As per the previous discussion, I feel almost all of the wingers that have been in and around the Fiji set-up are just one step short of being truley great, and it's entirely possible that if put in a full-time prfoessional set-up, with the best coaching (Which is the only thing stopping the Fijian backline from being one of, if not the, best in the world) they would hit that level. Nadolo's positioning is poor, and is very slow to turn. Nagusa's handling needs work. Votu, and any number of others, could benefit from game awareness. Goneva, however, is pretty close to being at the stage of competition now, and really just needs to be tested at the top level. Hopefully the World CUp will provide that opportunity.

I also hold my belief that Caucau in his prime was the best player the world has ever seen, better than Edwards, Lomu, Carter... Whoever you want to name.
 
For a wing pace isn't really that important. If it is why isn't Isles the best winger in the world? If pace is so important then why not just get your wingers to do sprint training all season and pick them for the test matches? Acceleration is important for a wing. In most cases most international wingers can do 100m in around about 11 seconds - there aren't that many times in a rugby game you would rather have a winger who can run 10.88 over 100m or 11.14. If pace is all that matters then why was Savea not selected for the AB's in 2011 when he was just as quick but couldn't catch a ball? Savea was way better than Nadolo in Super Rugby. Nadolo is a good player but lacks most things apart from size and power. It's funny that you say Savea only scores because of the AB's forwards but the Crusaders have a far better forward pack than the Hurricanes but you ignore that fact. To say the Hurricanes and Crusaders have the same quality forwards is just not true. Caucau was good but no other Fijian winger has ever come close to him. What you also ignore is that in test rugby you have to go up against the best wingers in the world as well. It's easier to score tries for Fiji against Tonga then it is for the All Blacks against South Africa. Other teams study players like Savea and try to shut them down.
 
For a wing pace isn't really that important. If it is why isn't Isles the best winger in the world? If pace is so important then why not just get your wingers to do sprint training all season and pick them for the test matches? Acceleration is important for a wing. In most cases most international wingers can do 100m in around about 11 seconds - there aren't that many times in a rugby game you would rather have a winger who can run 10.88 over 100m or 11.14. If pace is all that matters then why was Savea not selected for the AB's in 2011 when he was just as quick but couldn't catch a ball? Savea was way better than Nadolo in Super Rugby. Nadolo is a good player but lacks most things apart from size and power. It's funny that you say Savea only scores because of the AB's forwards but the Crusaders have a far better forward pack than the Hurricanes but you ignore that fact. To say the Hurricanes and Crusaders have the same quality forwards is just not true. Caucau was good but no other Fijian winger has ever come close to him. What you also ignore is that in test rugby you have to go up against the best wingers in the world as well. It's easier to score tries for Fiji against Tonga then it is for the All Blacks against South Africa. Other teams study players like Savea and try to shut them down.

Firstly in the case of Caucau it's not only the Fijian wingers who haven't been close no other ones have but if there were one would think it would be from Fiji. As for easier for Fiji to score against Tonga you kidding me mate, Fiji and Tonga are pretty much on the same level. The same Tonga team drew Samoa. It's a bit like saying It's easier scoring for All Blacks against Australia. Check out the stats on Savea and see who he scored against then you'll realise he ain't that special. As for saying in tests you're up against the best wingers well guess what mate those same wingers play in the same club level as the Fijian wingers and they go up against each other more regularly than the one off internationals. At international how often do Fiji play All Blacks maybe once every 5 years. Therefore the chance of Nadolo and Savea fronting up at international is rare. Yet club level Savea playing for Hurricanes and Nadolo Crusaders they're more likely to front up regularly there and Nadolo is better than Savea as in the case of last season.
Also Nadolo scores for the Crusaders who have a better pack then Hurricanes and also scores for Fiji who have a weaker pack then the All Blacks. Savea don't score for Hurricanes coz they have a weaker pack then Crusaders and Scores for All Blacks coz they have a stronger pack. Seems to me on that analysis Nadolo is better than Savea wouldn't you agree? Or you still in denial.
 
Mate the heart of my argument is that if you put any of the Fijian wingers in the place of those All Blacks they would more than likely do what those guys have done and even more. Cory Jane was and average sevens player. And Piutau was used as a centre that's because he didn't have the pace to be a winger. Several occasions he was clear and got caught from behind. Everyone knows Fiji's forwards internationally are crap hence the wingers don't have lots of go forward ball and space like the All Blacks do. When you look at club level where the All Blacks wingers and Fijian wingers have same quality balls because of similar forwards then the results is like last season's where Super rugby top try scorer Nadolo with even less games he still was way ahead of Savea, Smith and Jane. And in the Aviva premiership Goneva was the top try scorers despite missing a few games too through injuries. And in the top 14 Talebula was top try scorer.
Put it this way if Savea, Jane and Smith were playing for Fiji and Nadolo, Goneva, Ratini, Talebula and Viriviri played for the All Blacks who do you think will be talked about more?

Chris Ashton was the top try scorer in the Heineken Cup last year. He actually broke the record for tries in a single year in possibly the toughest club competition in the world. No one would make the case for him being the best winger in the world.
 
When you say no one you mean the rugby championship fans coz others knew he was right up there. When he skinned Mitchell at Twickenham that was awesome.

Also check out why he wasn't picked for England for the EOYT this week. They chose a Fijian winger to replace him. Yeah one who was below Goneva but coz Goneva is ineligible they had to go for the second best like how the All Blacks had to settle for Rokocoko coz Caucau was ineligible.
 
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Some Fijian guy who has all his professional training in England. Like Rokocoko and Sivivatu the only thing Fiji had to do with it was genetics.
 
@Flyingdolphins greetings man ! Great to have a poster from Fiji, and who seems committed ! There's no denying Fijians are typically the best wingers around, I mean they're AAALL over the Top 14 and often leave dudes for dead, no doubt. Even a Sireli Bobo who's 38yo will overtake guys in his sleep. There are lots in the Prem too, and are often the best. But with a guy like Savea, the strength that guy has is an immeasurable asset. Remember Twickenham 2012 when England beat them badly, the Blacks were desperate for anything to happen and Savea busts into 3 guys and makes a try happen out of nothing. I can't think of a winger in the world who could do that, and yes Nadolo is in my thoughts. There's no denying Fiji suffers from not having dominant enough forwards, setpiece and also a lack of good coaching/structure; and with the sort of backs they can produce they'd dominate if it wasn't for those things.

Great Ratini tribute vid you posted 1:37 is surreal. That's Nalaga running behind him and everyone looks in slow motion compared to him. It's just unfair that boy's speed...damn, we should really make a move to poach em...
 
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Some Fijian guy who has all his professional training in England. Like Rokocoko and Sivivatu the only thing Fiji had to do with it was genetics.

Sivivatu went to RKS in Fiji one of Fiji's powerful rugby school. He got scouted playing in Fiji secondary school rugby competition. The rest as they is history. Roko the guy who just got selected for England was picked by Bath playing for the Army. He got selected for the Army XV after impressing for the Army sevens team therefore we all know he didn't exactly develop his rugby skills especially 7s in England. He left Fiji at 20 and by that age he has already been developed in Fiji.
 
@Flyingdolphins greetings man ! Great to have a poster from Fiji, and who seems committed ! There's no denying Fijians are typically the best wingers around, I mean they're AAALL over the Top 14 and often leave dudes for dead, no doubt. Even a Sireli Bobo who's 38yo will overtake guys in his sleep. There are lots in the Prem too, and are often the best. But with a guy like Savea, the strength that guy has is an immeasurable asset. Remember Twickenham 2012 when England beat them badly, the Blacks were desperate for anything to happen and Savea busts into 3 guys and makes a try happen out of nothing. I can't think of a winger in the world who could do that, and yes Nadolo is in my thoughts. There's no denying Fiji suffers from not having dominant enough forwards, setpiece and also a lack of good coaching/structure; and with the sort of backs they can produce they'd dominate if it wasn't for those things.

Great Ratini tribute vid you posted 1:37 is surreal. That's Nalaga running behind him and everyone looks in slow motion compared to him. It's just unfair that boy's speed...damn, we should really make a move to poach em...

Hello mate cheers. Yeah Savea is awesome and I have never doubted that. I just think he's not special like Lomu because it's easy for any winger to shine when playing for the All Blacks especially one built like him and I've used Nadolo as an example. They're similar and playing behind a powerful pack like Nadolo for Crusaders and Savea for All Blacks makes their impact easy.
 
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Also I would like to point out that I can't believe not many people rate the French wingers I mean from the class of 1999 world cup to the 2007 class the French wingers have been awesome yet when people pick the top 10 wingers they forget about the French. The French wingers and backs are very similar to Fiji they play the game the way it should be. Throw caution to the wind and play like you're having a party. In saying that I'm liking what I'm seeing with the new resurgent Springboks backs. When you have a fly half like Poulard calling the shots it reminds me of the way Carlos Spencer called the shots in the Auckland Blues class of 2003.
 
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