Would NZ pick Nadolo ?

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Why? :huh:

i think off that term more of a hated song then a player

 

[nzlizard]

Nadolo is a big guy and looks good when he runs, can break the line a bit, his defense is OK, he can turn quick for a big guy.

But when you compare his skill level to the current team, the fringe players and some of the guys returning he is not the same level as them.

 

[Darwin]

Why? :huh:

Imscotty is picturing Robbie Fruean nude on a wrecking ball. He can't get it out of his mind. It leaves him confused....

I do rate Piutau, the guy's fkng awesome. Was unaware NZ in particular had a role for right and left wings...for me there's just, winger. But I'll take your word for it.

And well Gear really is underrated. He's one of these crazy good wingers who creates situations out of nothing, scores tries when other teams require two or three more phases if at all, etc...and in the conversation these past 2 or 3 years you hear a lot about Savea, Huget, North, Habana...but Gear just rarely comes up. It's only those "cryptic" more underground fans who have the presence of mind and general knowledge to bring him up, esp. like I said with Toulouse being so-so recently.
As for the kicking game, for me as long as a team has a good versatile fullback there in the back three, like the all-encompassing Ben Smith, your wingers just need to find the spaces eventually, basically. A team is far from dysfunctional if its wingers aren't big kickers. And with what Gear brings to a team, the kicking game can easily be overlooked, the guy's dynamite, I've been watching Toulouse obviously and he's a huge loss this year.

Gear underrated? Depends on how you define underrated I suppose. Perhaps you could suggest that Gear was underrated by the AB's selectors when he was in New Zealand. He was over-looked initially because they didn't think his defense, work-rate, or work under the high ball was at the required standard for test rugby (which I agreed with). However I felt he largely addressed these issues and performed very well for the AB's during the 2010 end-of-year tour - indeed I thought his performances should have sewn him up the left wing spot for the 2011 season (and I've never been a massive fan).

Gear was extremely highly rated by the NZ public when he was in New Zealand (from 2010 onwards.... before that time Nickdnz was his only fan). Indeed I would suggest he was quite over-rated. After playing a few good matches for the NZ Maori in 2010 (and after the 2010 end of year tour) many were suggesting he was not only the best wing in NZ, but the best wing in the world. The fact he was 3rd equal in the voting for " 2010 Southern Hemisphere Player of the Year" suggests to me he was pretty highly rated. Obviously I have no idea how he is rated in France, so will have to take your word that he is underrated over there. I'm just a bit surprised that this is the case considering how highly he seemed to be rated in NZ....

 

[TheSaffycen]

Was Gear mentioned in our TRF world team ? I think Savea won it quite easily but I can't remember if he was mentioned at all.

 

[Big Ewis]

ok Darwin but it's obvious I'm talking about Hosea Gear through 2013, 2014. He got recognition for e.g. by playing for the World XV/Baabaas last summer, but he hasn't generally got the praise he deserved the past couple of years.

 

[nickdnz]

Everyone knows when you go to France you no longer matter anymore .

But I agree Hosea Gear was never given the recognition he probably deserved even while he was in New Zealand. After 2010 (which he scored in every match) Graham Henry said he was probably the form winger in the world. Which is why I was somewhat irate that Drinky McGuildford was selected ahead of him for the 2011 RWC (with Gear only getting two matches in 2011 to try and stake a claim) and other players were selected as wing out of position in the 2011 RWC. To be fair to the critics, he never had a great scoring record against Tri Nations teams (in part because he was used so sparingly).

As for his career in Toulouse, he's been pretty great. He's playing more like he did when with the Hurricanes (actually getting space to run the ball, rather than being used 100x a game to try and crash the ball). What I genuinely think he does better than any other winger in the world is beat a man on the outside with pace and power. He just backs himself. He also tore England up recently for the Baabaas as you mention.

 

[Darwin]

ok Darwin but it's obvious I'm talking about Hosea Gear through 2013, 2014. He got recognition for e.g. by playing for the World XV/Baabaas last summer, but he hasn't generally got the praise he deserved the past couple of years.

Gear played one season of Top 14 rugby and he was voted in the RugbyRama "Team of the season" . That suggests to be me he can't have been that underrated Indeed when a list of the Top 10 wings in the world was made earlier this year he was mentioned by a number of people in their top 10. One particular poster disagreed (no names will be mentioned), suggesting he shouldn't be in the top 10, and that he was "not an exceptional winger".....:huh:

Anyways..... I was thinking about Gear's return to New Zealand this morning and I reckon there may be a place for him in the 31-man RWC squad (assuming squads are set at 31 players?). It will all depend on the make-up of the squad. I think taking 4 specialist midfield backs (e.g. SBW, Nonu, Smith + one of Crotty/Fekitoa) will be the most likely option, which would leave no room for Gear (with Smith, Savea, Dagg, and Piutau/Jane covering the outside backs, with additional cover from Fekitoa/SBW/Barrett).

However if they only take 3 specialist mid-fielders (Nonu, Smith, and SBW) with cover from Carter and B Smith they will have room for 5 outside backs. If that was the case I imagine they would take Savea, Smith, Piutau, Dagg and either Jane or Gear. Given they would have 2 strong options on the right wing (Smith and Piutau), and plenty of fullback cover (Smith, Dagg, Piutau, Barrett) another left wing would be handy. The way the AB's are playing at the moment they do rely on a strike weapon out wide on the left, which is a role that Gear could easily fill. Piutau could develop into an option on that wing too, but personally I think he is our best right wing option so should be given as much game-time their as possible (with Smith at fullback). I suppose Kahui could be an option if he returns (and is fit) as he has certainly never let the AB's down....

 

[nickdnz]

Gear played one season of Top 14 rugby and he was voted in the RugbyRama "Team of the season" . That suggests to be me he can't have been that underrated Indeed when a list of the Top 10 wings in the world was made earlier this year he was mentioned by a number of people in their top 10. One particular poster disagreed (no names will be mentioned), suggesting he shouldn't in the top 10, and that he was "not an exceptional winger".....:huh:

Hahahaha.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well I'm not all that surprised I made that comment at the time. As I read it, I understand the state of mind I was in back then. But that's whenever that was, and this is me today, with all the things I've seen since (which is all that matters for this thread, today, in September 2014): Hosea Gear is a Top 10 winger world wide.
And Darwin you seem hellbent on contradicting me. It's like whichever route I borrow as I attempt to state the way I feel about Gear's place in the collective imaginations, you're just going to write up a big post solely to oppose to what I've said. It's twice now you're replying with impertinence: first time you tell me about years outside the topic, second time you tell me about a place outside the topic. Obviously I know Gear is highly rated here in France Darwin, think, I'm French, I spend most of my time online on French Rugby websites...I meant around the world, which was implied as I said "most ppl don't have time for the Top 14", i.e. ppl who DO watch Top 14 know he's good.

Please don't write up another one of those posts again, here's what I'm saying to be limpid as really clear urine (like when you only drink water for a whole day):
I believe Hosea Gear is one of the best wingers in the world. I believe he's Top 5, and wouldn't pick too many over him today. I believe he has been very underrated lately around the world, since moving to France he's been off the radar and doesn't get the recognition he should/isn't in the convos as he should.

Now just to address Gear as an AB. Hansen does what he wants, I'm just suggesting. He knows what he's doing, but I like specialist wingers. I don't like it when there's a FB at winger, personally, and have seen the limits of doing that in a wide array of cases. I, for one, would like to see Savea. Gear. Ben Smith as the back three.

Yes ?

 

[Darwin]

Everyone knows when you go to France you no longer matter anymore .

But I agree Hosea Gear was never given the recognition he probably deserved even while he was in New Zealand. After 2010 (which he scored in every match) Graham Henry said he was probably the form winger in the world. Which is why I was somewhat irate that Drinky McGuildford was selected ahead of him for the 2011 RWC (with Gear only getting two matches in 2011 to try and stake a claim) and other players were selected as wing out of position in the 2011 RWC. To be fair to the critics, he never had a great scoring record against Tri Nations teams (in part because he was used so sparingly).

As for his career in Toulouse, he's been pretty great. He's playing more like he did when with the Hurricanes (actually getting space to run the ball, rather than being used 100x a game to try and crash the ball). What I genuinely think he does better than any other winger in the world is beat a man on the outside with pace and power. He just backs himself. He also tore England up recently for the Baabaas as you mention.

Good to hear he has been playing well in Toulouse. I do think the Chiefs style of play will suit him - my only concern is that the Chiefs like to rotate most of the their team every week, and I feel Gear is at his best when starting every week. It certainly won't do his AB's chances any harm either as he will get time to form combinations with the likes of SBW and Cruden...

Well I'm not all that surprised I made that comment at the time. As I read it, I understand the state of mind I was in back then. But that's whenever that was, and this is me today, with all the things I've seen since (which is all that matters for this thread, today, in September 2014): Hosea Gear is a Top 10 winger world wide.
And Darwin you seem hellbent on contradicting me. It's like whichever route I borrow as I attempt to state the way I feel about Gear's place in the collective imaginations, you're just going to write up a big post solely to oppose to what I've said. It's twice now you're replying with impertinence: first time you tell me about years outside the topic, second time you tell me about a place outside the topic. Obviously I know Gear is highly rated here in France Darwin, think, I'm French, I spend most of my time online on French Rugby websites...I meant around the world, which was implied as I said "most ppl don't have time for the Top 14", i.e. ppl who DO watch Top 14 know he's good.

Please don't write up another one of those posts again, here's what I'm saying to be limpid as really clear urine (like when you only drink water for a whole day):
I believe Hosea Gear is one of the best wingers in the world. I believe he's Top 5, and wouldn't pick too many over him today. I believe he has been very underrated lately around the world, since moving to France he's been off the radar and doesn't get the recognition he should/isn't in the convos as he should.Now just to address Gear as an AB. Hansen does what he wants, I'm just suggesting. He knows what he's doing, but I like specialist wingers. I don't like it when there's a FB at winger, personally, and have seen the limits of doing that in a wide array of cases. I, for one, would like to see Savea. Gear. Ben Smith as the back three.

Yes ?

You appear to be far more hellbent on contradicting yourself

Ok, I think I finally get your point. Hosea Gear has been underrated from the period spanning August 2013 - June 2014 by rugby followers who don't watch the Top 14, aren't New Zealanders, and don't post on TheRugbyForum. It is very clear to me now.....

You are also suggesting that despite watching Gear extensively you were one of those who underrated Gear from August 2013 - March 2014 (when he was considered not an exceptional winger), however the four Top14 matches and several Barbarians / World XV matches Gear played between April 2014 and September 2014 convinced you that Gear is one of the best wings in the World. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I will now be able to sleep at night

In terms of "fullbacks on the wing", I do agree it doesn't work in many cases, but it is very important in terms of the AB's game-plan. France do seem hell-bent on playing fullbacks on the wing (and it doesn't seem to work that well for them), so I can understand why you aren't a big fan!

The AB's adopted this tactic after 2009 when South Africa continually bombed / kicked in behind our wings (Sivivatu and Rokocoko) to great effect. Adding a specialist under the high ball on the right wing limited South Africa's (and other sides) ability to attack us in this area - basically they were forced to only us the 'high ball tactic' on one side of the field (teams did try to bomb Jane initially but soon discovered just how futile that was!). Indeed if you watch the AB's over the last couple of seasons the opposition never bombs the right wing (where Jane or Ben Smith have been), but have targeted Savea (not very effectively though, as he is very good under the high ball now). Having a 2nd fullback who can drop back and help our real fullback is also vital to our counter-attacking capabilities. So while we perhaps lose a bit in terms of raw strike power, we more than make-up for that in terms of high ball skills, work-rate, ability to counter-attack etc.

I would also add that having two "fullbacks" on the wing hasn't really worked for the AB's either. Having a big powerful wing on the left is just as important as having a 2nd fullback on the right, which is why I'm happy to see Gear coming back into the country....

 

[nickdnz]

And Darwin you seem hellbent on contradicting me. It's like whichever route I borrow as I attempt to state the way I feel about Gear's place in the collective imaginations, you're just going to write up a big post solely to oppose to what I've said. It's twice now you're replying with impertinence: first time you tell me about years outside the topic, second time you tell me about a place outside the topic. Obviously I know Gear is highly rated here in France Darwin, think, I'm French, I spend most of my time online on French Rugby websites...I meant around the world, which was implied as I said "most ppl don't have time for the Top 14", i.e. ppl who DO watch Top 14 know he's good.

Please don't write up another one of those posts again, here's what I'm saying to be limpid as really clear urine (like when you only drink water for a whole day):
I believe Hosea Gear is one of the best wingers in the world. I believe he's Top 5, and wouldn't pick too many over him today. I believe he has been very underrated lately around the world, since moving to France he's been off the radar and doesn't get the recognition he should/isn't in the convos as he should.

Agreed. Darwin has this nasty and vicious habit of making people look stupid by using evidence to support his assertions.

...you know he watches Money Ball on loop?

 

[welshglory]

Gear is a very good winger, but he's nowhere near as good as Savea, Sivivatu, Rococoko, Howlett or even his bro Rico in their prime. That is what he is always been compared to.

 

[Big Ewis]

Gear is a very good winger, but he's nowhere near as good as Savea, Sivivatu, Rococoko, Howlett or even his bro Rico in their prime. That is what he is always been compared to.

well those are some of the all-time greats. Right now I think Gear is Top 5. I've got North and Savea in for sure. Then there's a ton of quality wingers, and for me I feel Gear would make it in one of those last 3 spots.

Darwin: uhmmmm...look dude, internet arguing isn't for me. But my only point from the start is I think Gear has been avoided in talks and underrated a lot in the last, say, 2 years. In France, we know he's good. Every time I've made a post, you don't try to see what I'm saying and answer that, no, you don't focus on the bulk, the actual point at hand - that's not even close to being in your mindset - you look into the little details that could possibly go against me and make an entire post with little smileys and all, dude...I'm too old for this man, I'm very patient, but I'm too old for this my friend. You'll go looking at threads, take dates, run through the Rugby events that happened during that span...wow dude just, if you really want to know, I watched a lot of Top 14 matches from last year this summer and naturally growing as a fan I now believe Gear is Top 5 and if you're smart that's all that should matter to you, *the point at hand*, not what I thought 15min ago and then changed my mind and ate a tomato while showering and what not - that doesn't concern you, that's my natural evolution.
You, on this thread, are solicited if you wish to oppose to whether Hosea Gear a) is as good as I say (i.e. Top5 world wide) and/or b) that he was that underrated in recent years around the globe.

Now about fullbacks into wingers:
I like my wingers to be specialist wingers, to have that killer instinct, smelling the line, the stepping, running the right channels, the pure pace...etc...I've seen sooo many wingers play at FB and vice versa where the players are about HALF as efficient. One of which has been Ben Smith in fact. It's just so frustrating to see a great player hindered merely by what number he wears on his shirt, for a whole game. Some instances, I've seen a FB at winger in a very favorable situation near the try line which he couldn't exploit, the instinct isn't there.
Basically, I understand the high ball is really important, and if the guy is just a disaster under it there's no point playing him, far too risky. But I want two arrows (or a giant) on my wings with that bloodlust, those instincts. Big difference for me and I've seen it countless times. About France picking FB's on the wing, I'm very glad we picked 4 specialist wingers for November.

 

[Draggs]

Agreed. Darwin has this nasty and vicious habit of making people look stupid by using evidence to support his assertions.

...you know he watches Money Ball on loop?

Why haven't we banned Darwin yet?
Darwin forced me to support Otago. I could have been a Canterbury "fan"!

 

[Darwin]

Why haven't we banned Darwin yet?
Darwin forced me to support Otago. I could have been a Canterbury "fan"!

With your fetish for sheep you would have fitted in really well with those Canterbury supporters

I'm certainly in favour of banning that Darwin character. He's a prick.

well those are some of the all-time greats. Right now I think Gear is Top 5. I've got North and Savea in for sure. Then there's a ton of quality wingers, and for me I feel Gear would make it in one of those last 3 spots.

Darwin: uhmmmm...look dude, internet arguing isn't for me. But my only point from the start is I think Gear has been avoided in talks and underrated a lot in the last, say, 2 years. In France, we know he's good. Every time I've made a post, you don't try to see what I'm saying and answer that, no, you don't focus on the bulk, the actual point at hand - that's not even close to being in your mindset - you look into the little details that could possibly go against me and make an entire post with little smileys and all, dude...I'm too old for this man, I'm very patient, but I'm too old for this my friend. You'll go looking at threads, take dates, run through the Rugby events that happened during that span...wow dude just, if you really want to know, I watched a lot of Top 14 matches from last year this summer and naturally growing as a fan I now believe Gear is Top 5 and if you're smart that's all that should matter to you, *the point at hand*, not what I thought 15min ago and then changed my mind and ate a tomato while showering and what not - that doesn't concern you, that's my natural evolution.
You, on this thread, are solicited if you wish to oppose to whether Hosea Gear a) is as good as I say (i.e. Top5 world wide) and/or b) that he was that underrated in recent years around the globe.

Now about fullbacks into wingers:
I like my wingers to be specialist wingers, to have that killer instinct, smelling the line, the stepping, running the right channels, the pure pace...etc...I've seen sooo many wingers play at FB and vice versa where the players are about HALF as efficient. One of which has been Ben Smith in fact. It's just so frustrating to see a great player hindered merely by what number he wears on his shirt, for a whole game. Some instances, I've seen a FB at winger in a very favorable situation near the try line which he couldn't exploit, the instinct isn't there.
Basically, I understand the high ball is really important, and if the guy is just a disaster under it there's no point playing him, far too risky. But I want two arrows (or a giant) on my wings with that bloodlust, those instincts. Big difference for me and I've seen it countless times. About France picking FB's on the wing, I'm very glad we picked 4 specialist wingers for November.

:lol: You entertain me. I was simply interested as to why you thought Gear was overrated, because in my opinion he is not (he was was very rated in NZ by all but the AB's coaches, he was included in the Top14 team of the tournament, was included in many peoples "Top 10 wings in the world" this year, and was lauded for performance for the Barbarians earlier this season). My apologies for using evidence to back-up my opinions. I will try not to do that in future. It doesn't bother me in the least whether you believe Gear is overrated or not (and in my initial post I said I would take your world that he was underrated in France!), as whether a player is considered over/underrated or not is rather subjective (as I mentioned in my initial post)....

As for fullback on the wing.... I definitely agree that some fullbacks don't suit playing on the wing - Israel Dagg for example is a rubbish wing (he's even worse than he is at fullback!) - and in some cases quality fullbacks are somewhat wasted on the wing (Ben Smith is a good example, though he is still bloody good on the wing!). However the likes of Cory Jane and Charles Piutau are far better suited to playing on the wing than fullback at international level in my opinion (Lolagi Visinia is another who may feature for the AB's within the next few years in a similar role). I would suggest Israel Folau may be better on the wing than at fullback at test level too (James O'Connor, despite not being a "finisher" is another who I believe can be very effective on the wing at test level).

 

[nickdnz]

Gear is a very good winger, but he's nowhere near as good as Savea, Sivivatu, Rococoko, Howlett or even his bro Rico in their prime. That is what he is always been compared to.

In fairness to Gear, he's never exactly been given consistent opportunities to prove himself to be that good. I would argue he has been better than many of them over a consistent period of time (in fact I think he's probably been the best finisher since around 2008). Fortunately Howlett, Rokocoko and Gear all benefited from playing in good Super Rugby teams. Gear moved from the Hurricanes to the Highlanders and stood out for both of them, despite being very under-performing teams.

Sadly the All Blacks selected wingers after a rough 2009, who were very comfortable under the high ball. I think Gear got tarnished with Rokocoko (who I also love) as a winger who may be exposed in the air, and so didn't really get his opportunities. As we've seen with Savea, the logic has changed a bit to show that you can work on aerial skills.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Gear wouldn't make my top 5 wingers in the world.
1.Savea
2.Habana
3.North
4.Huget
5.Goneva/Sivi

 

[Big Ewis]

He's very similar to Huget, but better. Big, strong, aerodynamic build. A fighter jet. Got that specialist winger's killer instinct for the line, blazing speed, good stepping, but just better. He can create a try out of nothing better than Huget can, some of the individual/semi-individual tries he's managed are beyond Huget's capability. The difference isn't huge, but Gear is better. I wish I'd kept footage of what I've seen him do and compiled it, but he's just lightning on the wing, and you just constantly saw him running in Toulouse. Huget will have his moments, but Gear, you'd just sit back watching Toulouse and sooner or later you'd see this arrow race past everything, then changing direction, avoiding contact, stopping, picking up again...he looked like Achilles in Troy when they're besieging the beach area at times. A one man show.

Even Habana right now...his pace alone is what's made him a serious contender for that other winger's spot on a best ever World XV, but at this moment I don't even know if I'd pick him over Gear. The things Gear has done, I'm not sure Habana in his shoes would've created as many opportunities and/or exploited them as efficiently...

A guy to really consider these days is James O'Connor. He's been in red hot form, his stepping and exploiting/creation of space and defender beating has been extraordinary so far for Toulon.

So then, yes: Huget, Nalaga, Sireli Bobo, Nagusa, Talebula, David Smith, Cuthbert (at times), Visser, Nadolo, Speight...are fkng brilliant, I've seen some of Goneva and he's awesome too. Also, soon to be officially added: Guitoune, Teddy Thomas. Yarde should be mentioned also, and Hendricks.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Oh, kudo's for adding Hendricks to the mix, Big E. The man hasn't been in top flight rugby for long but with those 7's skills he certainly knows how to finish the few opportunities he gets. Just needs to add some work off the ball and he'd be pushing for anyone's top 10 current wingers IMO.

 

[Big Ewis]

Oh, kudo's for adding Hendricks to the mix, Big E. The man hasn't been in top flight rugby for long but with those 7's skills he certainly knows how to finish the few opportunities he gets. Just needs to add some work off the ball and he'd be pushing for anyone's top 10 current wingers IMO.

no no, I've seen what he can do. Seen enough, he's up there. Forgot Manuel Montero, easily in that list.