The Improvement of Tier Two Nations - In Particular Georgia.

[Peat]

Rugby is set to remain a closed 10 team sport for a very long time to come. I think if rugby wants to get even more competitive the national organizations of the Tier-1 countries need to open up their pro comps and find the best talent. Limiting the amount of spots on rep sides is not going to imnprove tier 1 countries at all. England are not going to lose anything by allowing a couple of foreigners to play each game for each respective team and the english side is not going to be weakened at all. England would remain just as strong as it is now if 50% of the premiership were foreigners.

Letstake the NHL in NA, some teams are 50% European yet nobody cares because the NHL is committed to going out and getting the best hockey players in the world bar none. MLB does the same thing going to places such as Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, Dominican Republic IOT poach the best players world wide for their teams.

England's league is open, all English teams field at least a couple of foreigners and most make up a third of their team more or less with them, and England's team is currently at something of an ebb and over the past couple of years has probably been behind Ireland and Wales internationally, both teams that do restrict foreign players in their league.

edit: Whether that's related is debatable of course, but suggesting that the strength of the English team has no relation to the number of EQPs in the Premiership is just lacking in logic.

 

[LittleGuy]

The Aviva Premiership is partially open it has a limit of two non-European players on the field at any one time per team, while teams are free to sign as many players from outside as they want it's not very practical to have a ton of non-Europeans on the game day lineup.

 

[Peat]

The Aviva Premiership is partially open it has a limit of two non-European players on the field at any one time per team, while teams are free to sign as many players from outside as they want it's not very practical to have a ton of non-Europeans on the game day lineup.

Well I'll be buggered, you're right, they moved it to be in line with the Heineken Cup, that slipped by quietly.

Although - should things go completely open again, do you think English clubs would start playing more North American players? Because I don't. I think they'll just sign even more Kiwis.

 

[Saintjay]

Well I'll be buggered, you're right, they moved it to be in line with the Heineken Cup, that slipped by quietly.

Although - should things go completely open again, do you think English clubs would start playing more North American players? Because I don't. I think they'll just sign even more Kiwis.

If they were good enough and the money was right they would get signed. I don't think just because your a kiwi has any thing to do with it.

At the end of the day take into account the good English players in the Prem alone how many North Americans are good enough to break into a top Prem teams and then think how many Kiwi's are good enough to get into a top Prem teams. It might explain why they tend to sign more Kiwi players compared to North Americans.

You also have to look at the experience and knowledge the player brings to the club.

 

[Peat]

If they were good enough and the money was right they would get signed. I don't think just because your a kiwi has any thing to do with it.

At the end of the day take into account the good English players in the Prem alone how many North Americans are good enough to break into a top Prem teams and then think how many Kiwi's are good enough to get into a top Prem teams. It might explain why they tend to sign more Kiwi players compared to North Americans.

You also have to look at the experience and knowledge the player brings to the club.

We wouldn't sign them simply because they were Kiwis. Well, hopefully, I have my doubts about some clubs.

But we would sign them because they're better players and better experience and knowledge - as you say. The number of Kiwis where the talent and price are right is vastly more than North Americans.

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

I did answer The Other guy who said that the RWC 2011 Wasnt a good bussines. Well in case u didnt know it The Ticket Revenues Of The RWC 2011 Were Like 230 Millions Of DLS versus The 280 Millions of DLS in Beijing...

 

[Croket66]

Does the green mark uncapped players? Because we will poach Sharikadze and Rapava if they're any good and you don't before they've done three years. Without mercy or hesitation. That's the way England rolls.

Thanks for the information anyway.

Sharikadze (and Nijaradze who's playing with Gloucester A team) plays with Georgia 7 team so they can't play for England

 

[Melhor Time]

GRU president said on televison that in January Tier 2 nations will meet in the USA and seriously discuss a anually Tier 2 competition from 2013 on.
The countries are: USA, Canada, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Georgia, Romania, Russia, Japan and most likely Namibia. It will be interesting to see if there will be a competition like this.

Also, I'll post below some statistics from Romanian "Super Liga". The national competition improved a lot in the last years (from the next season Chester Williams will train Timisoara, a few foreign players play here) and every week 2 matches of 4 are on TV.

Super Liga CEC Bank 2011
1.CSM Baia Mare (champion)
2.Steaua Bucharest
3.Farul Constanta
4.RCM Timisoara (winner or the cup)
5.Dinamo Bucharest
6.CSM Bucharest
7.U Cluj (relegated)
8.Arad (relegated)

foreign players :
New Zealand : Derek Carpenter (CE, Farul Constanta), Andrew Pahulu (N8, RCM Timisoara)
Tonga : Tevita Palu (SH/FH, 14 caps, RCM Timisoara), Paula Kinikinilau (CE, RCM Timisoara)
Fiji : Sean Morrell (FL/N8, 1 cap, CSM Baia Mare)
Samoa : Lapana Makapelu (CE/WG, RCM Timisoara)
Namibia : Renaud Van Nell (FL, 2 caps, Farul Constanta), Howard ***us (FH/FB, Farul Constanta), McGrath Van Wyk (WG, 9 caps, Farul Constanta), Eugene Jantjies (SH/FB, 32 caps, Farul Constanta)
Georgia : Otar Turashvili (PR/HK, Farul Constanta)
Moldova : Leon Victor (PR, ? caps, Dinamo Bucharest), Roman Gobjila (WG, ? caps, Vlaicu Arad)

Romanians at the World Cup :
Steaua Bucharest : Bogdan Zebega (HK, 35 caps), Nicolae Nere (PR, 18 caps), Daniel Ianus (FL/N8, 12 caps), Dan Dumbrava (FH/FB, 62 caps), Ionel Cazan (CE, 12 caps), Florin Vlaicu (FB/FH, 50 caps)
CSM Baia Mara : Mihai Macovei (FL, 26 caps), Ionut Dimofte (FH/CE, 60 caps), Csaba Gal (CE, 44 caps), Stefan Ciuntu (WG, 34 caps)
Farul Constanta : Daniel Carpo (N8, 35 caps), Constantin Gheara (CE, 9 caps), Adrian Apostol (WG, 1 cap), Catalin Nicolae (WG, 24 caps)
RCM Timisoara : Stelian Burcea (FL, 36 caps), Valentin Calafeteanu (SH, 43 caps), Madalin Lenmaru (WG, 11 caps)
Dinamo Bucharest : Cosmin Ratiu (LK, 31 caps)
CSM Bucharest : Valentin Popirlan (LK, 22 caps), Florin Surugiu (SH, 17 caps)

Very good news but I am not pleased to see Spain and Uruguay missing from that list.

 

[LittleGuy]

I did answer The Other guy who said that the RWC 2011 Wasnt a good bussines. Well in case u didnt know it The Ticket Revenues Of The RWC 2011 Were Like 230 Millions Of DLS versus The 280 Millions of DLS in Beijing...

Thank you for clarifying, the "reply with quote" option makes the threads easier to follow though.

 

[Croket66]

the hooker Jaba Bregvadze signs for Toulouse. He is the 15th georgian front row to play in Top14 this year.
Actually, 17 georgians players are in Top14 :

12 props :
loosehead : Kakovin (Brive), Khichagishili (Brive), Peikrishvili (Castres), Nariashvili (Montpellier), Kavtidze (Lyon), Shvelidze (Montpellier)
tighthead : Zirakashvili (Clermont), Jgenti (Montpellier), Kubriashvili (Toulon), Sheklashvili (Agen), Ratianidze (Lyon), Chilichava (Toulon)

3 hookers :
Natriashvili (Brive), Giorgadze (Toulouse) and now Bregvadze (Toulouse)

1 lock :
Mikautadze (Toulon)

1 back row :
Gorgodze (Montpellier)

 

[Darwin]

the hooker Jaba Bregvadze signs for Toulouse. He is the 15th georgian front row to play in Top14 this year.
Actually, 17 georgians players are in Top14 :

12 props :
loosehead : Kakovin (Brive), Khichagishili (Brive), Peikrishvili (Castres), Nariashvili (Montpellier), Kavtidze (Lyon), Shvelidze (Montpellier)
tighthead : Zirakashvili (Clermont), Jgenti (Montpellier), Kubriashvili (Toulon), Sheklashvili (Agen), Ratianidze (Lyon), Chilichava (Toulon)

3 hookers :
Natriashvili (Brive), Giorgadze (Toulouse) and now Bregvadze (Toulouse)

1 lock :
Mikautadze (Toulon)

1 back row :
Gorgodze (Montpellier)

Good to see so many Georgians already in the Top14! It is probably not surprising that they are forwards (indeed mainly front-rowers), but for Georgia to improve at an international level they probably need to get some backline players into top class rugby. Are there any Georgian backs that you think will be breaking into the Top14 in the near future?

 

[Croket66]

Good to see so many Georgians already in the Top14! It is probably not surprising that they are forwards (indeed mainly front-rowers), but for Georgia to improve at an international level they probably need to get some backline players into top class rugby. Are there any Georgian backs that you think will be breaking into the Top14 in the near future?

Some young georgians backs are in England or France :
- Merab Sharikadze (center/wing, born 1993) : He plays for Gloucester U19 team and for Georgia 7' team
- David Losaberidze (center, born 1991) : He plays for Section Paloise U23 team and played pre-season games with the senior ProD2 squad
- Giorgi Jimsheladze (center, born 1990) : He plays for ASM Clermont U23 and played 2011 IRB Nations Cup for Georgia
- Sandro Nijaradze (wing, born 1987) : He plays for Gloucester Academy he plays for Georgia 7' team and count 1 cap for Georgia
- Saba Labadze (wing, born 1992) : He plays for Toulon U19 team

Some young georgians (born 1992/1993) plays regulary in the Georgian championship with the senior squad (Gogolashvili who's playing with Georgia 7' team, Gagoshvili, Mtchelidze)
[h=2][/h]

 

[Darwin]

Some young georgians backs are in England or France :
- Merab Sharikadze (center/wing, born 1993) : He plays for Gloucester U19 team and for Georgia 7' team
- David Losaberidze (center, born 1991) : He plays for Section Paloise U23 team and played pre-season games with the senior ProD2 squad
- Giorgi Jimsheladze (center, born 1990) : He plays for ASM Clermont U23 and played 2011 IRB Nations Cup for Georgia
- Sandro Nijaradze (wing, born 1987) : He plays for Gloucester Academy he plays for Georgia 7' team and count 1 cap for Georgia
- Saba Labadze (wing, born 1992) : He plays for Toulon U19 team

Some young georgians (born 1992/1993) plays regulary in the Georgian championship with the senior squad (Gogolashvili who's playing with Georgia 7' team, Gagoshvili, Mtchelidze)

Thanks for the info! Certainly names I will keep my eye out for in future.

 

[London_Italian]

I can't see why Gerogia shouldnt be playing in an expanded 6 nations. There are many similarities between both Georgia and Italy on a rugby playing level and if one is there i dont see why the other shouldn't be also. I have no doubt that there is still a large gap to be bridged between where Georgia are now and the top tier one nations, but that will undoubtably shorten with more experience playing the better teams. Georgia, as well as Russia and Portugal should alos certainly have a team in the Amlin Cup.

 

[Croket66]

6 Nations need a promotion-relegation system

 

[powerfulduck]

6 Nations need a promotion-relegation system

not for a good few years, alot of things would have to change IMO for this to become a reality. The european nations cup runs over a two year period for a start that would have to change, and even a year out of the 6N for Scotland would be finacially catasrophic (it's protectionism but we are talking of growing the sport internationally not reducing it). Instead i think they way to enhance Tier 2 European nations like Georgia & Russia is to offer a reward for winning the Nations cup for example the winning team recieves a birth in the amlin for a select XV for the next two years. This is only a short term solution as i think in 10-15 years time we will have 10+ different nations represented in the amlin on a permenant basis anyway.

 

[Bail]

not for a good few years, alot of things would have to change IMO for this to become a reality. The european nations cup runs over a two year period for a start that would have to change, and even a year out of the 6N for Scotland would be finacially catasrophic (it's protectionism but we are talking of growing the sport internationally not reducing it). Instead i think they way to enhance Tier 2 European nations like Georgia & Russia is to offer a reward for winning the Nations cup for example the winning team recieves a birth in the amlin for a select XV for the next two years. This is only a short term solution as i think in 10-15 years time we will have 10+ different nations represented in the amlin on a permenant basis anyway.

You have a wrong argument here.
First, because you admit Scotland current treatment is unfair. Does rugby really want to show an unfairness image.
Second, Scotland fall won't reduce rugby elite immediatly, during a transition period Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal wiill benefit from this fall with wins against them. It will still promote rugby in this countries before Scotland become what they are at soccer.
Third, Scotland already demonstrate their unability to support pro rugby. Scottish just don't like pro rugby. I don't undestand why but that's a fact, there's noone in their stadiums.

 

[Feicarsinn]

You have a wrong argument here.
First, because you admit Scotland current treatment is unfair. Does rugby really want to show an unfairness image.
Second, Scotland fall won't reduce rugby elite immediatly, during a transition period Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal wiill benefit from this fall with wins against them. It will still promote rugby in this countries before Scotland become what they are at soccer.
Third, Scotland already demonstrate their unability to support pro rugby. Scottish just don't like pro rugby. I don't undestand why but that's a fact, there's noone in their stadiums.

Edinburgh's presence in the Heineken Cup quarter final would be to differ.

 

[Teh Mite]

Edinburgh's presence in the Heineken Cup quarter final would be to differ.

Crowds of bugger-all at Murrayfield beg to differ to differ.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Crowds of bugger-all at Murrayfield beg to differ to differ.

Well, I'm not going to argue with that obviously, but I guess success breeds success. I'd imagine our provinces' attendances would be a lot lower had we not enjoyed a very strong decade or so. One only need to look at the Welsh regions to see that if your teams don't go well you wont get the crowds you'd expect (I know there are lots of other reasons too). Unfortunately for Scotland, the advent of professionalism proper (I'm talking about 2000 when the club game really started building up a head of steam) happened to coincide with a particularly fallow period in Scottish rugby. I've no doubt that if Edinburgh's and Glasgow's fortunes were to improve we'd see crowds come flocking in.

Oh, they obviously need to get themselves a new stadium too.