The Improvement of Tier Two Nations - In Particular Georgia.

[Nielsch]

Georgia were far from dicked by Scotland and Argentine at the last World Cup, and came very very close against Ireland in 2007. I truly believe that if they were to play Italy or Scotland at a sold out Boris Paichadze Stadium in Tblisi they could surely be victorious.

 

[stus768]

If you have multiple groups of players that are unavailable to play for extended periods of time then a club is less likely to want to bring in players from those groups as they start to be come more expensive, relative to available games. There aren't that many Italy players in the current squad that are playing outside of Italy, 5 at the moment. Those still outside and who have played outside are mostly very important players for their club, this is why they are retained.

 

[psychic duck]

If you have multiple groups of players that are unavailable to play for extended periods of time then a club is less likely to want to bring in players from those groups as they start to be come more expensive, relative to available games. There aren't that many Italy players in the current squad that are playing outside of Italy, 5 at the moment. Those still outside and who have played outside are mostly very important players for their club, this is why they are retained.

that was before Aironi and Treviso had the money to bring them back before Aironi brought players back most of the players were based outside Italy, but when the Italian teams entered the Pro 12 players could get a good deal playing at home

Bortolami (Gloucester), Aguëro (Saracens), Staibano (Castres), Perugini (Toulouse/Bayonne), Ongaro (Saracens), Masi (Biarritz/Racing-Métro), Orquera (Brive), Mauro Bergamasco (Stade Français), Festuccia (Racing-Métro), Canavosio (Castres), Bortolussi (Montpellier), Bernabo (Brive), del Fava (Bourgoin/Ulster)

between 2008 and 2010 all these players at somepoint were based abroad from Italy

until a couple of years ago all those players played abroad, it hardly stopped teams signing Italians being signed by clubs a couple of years ago, and I don't think it would stop Georgians being signed either

they were all happy to sign them when Italy already had exactly the same amount of matches as they do now

the Argentines are a different case with different unavailability periods

 

[Jayatron]

Sorry to say Psychic Duck that I still don't agree with you. Reading Toko_11 post I feel that investing into their Professional league is still best for long term development.
The reason why it is counter productive to any team is that players get better by playing with or against better players, a fact that you agree with. A player drain would be detrimental to a countries development, I must stress I am not saying all players should stay in their home country because exports are a good thing. We just have to look at Wales to see the worry they are having about their player drain. And a good example of quick development with the use of professionalism is Japan. Look at how they are getting by consolidating their playing pool in what appears a very entertaining league.

So like I say I really believe that if any investment is to be made it has to be into infrastructure. There is a reason why every rugby country in world invest into training facilities and better coaching why would Georgia want to be different? Yes it worked for Argentina but now they are doing everything to start a professional league. And by the way Argentina are doing a lot more than just eternal fighting. My understanding is within the next 2-3 years. Unless you know of some blogs, links or people that I do not know?

It what your saying is true Toko_11 about Georgian and Russian teams getting the better of Italian sides, weak or not, the sooner they get into the Amlin the better, even it is for just spice, I for one would be really keen to watch that. But considering that the top 3/4 Russian sides are on the same budget as the Scottish teams, around 5million.

Either way it is late and I guess time will tell what will work better. Perhaps is four years time after the next RWC.

 

[Seaton]

5 million what?

Half of that in pounds, then you would be correct.

 

[smartcooky]

5 million what?

Samolians probably!

 

[Seaton]

Samolians probably!

I have tried, and now admit defeat.

Explanation on a post-card please.

 

[Croket66]

Russian budgets :
Enisey-STM :
"a budget of several million euro"
http://www.rugby.ro/articol/placati-de-milionarii-rusi-14286/ (2009)

"Even if it was before a team with a budget of $ 5 million"
http://www.rugby.ro/articol/rcj-farul-a-zdrobit-vicecampioana-rusiei-13306/ (2008)

"more than 110 000 000 roubles" = 2.8 Mâ'¬
http://31.192.105.75/others/rugby/6167766.html (2008)

Romanian budgets :
RCM Timisoara :
"Budget of approximately EUR 1 million"
http://www.rugby.ro/articol/foto:-timisoara-isi-face-stadion-cu-300000-de-euro-15456/

"1 million de euro"
http://www.rugby.ro/articol/revolut...ion-de-euro-pentru-***lul-de-campioana-15397/


I would found infos for other clubs (VVA, Krasny Yar)

For the georgian team, the Armia Tbilissi, i don't know the budget but this team is the property of the georgian government

 

[Bail]

Georgia were far from dicked by Scotland and Argentine at the last World Cup, and came very very close against Ireland in 2007. I truly believe that if they were to play Italy or Scotland at a sold out Boris Paichadze Stadium in Tblisi they could surely be victorious.

I think we can all agreed about if Georgia were playing Scotland or Italy three times in a row, they would surely win the third match. And pretty the same can be said about most of Tier Two nations. In conclusion Italy and Scotland aren't Tier One nations.

 

[Saintjay]

I think we can all agreed about if Georgia were playing Scotland or Italy three times in a row, they would surely win the third match. And pretty the same can be said about most of Tier Two nations. In conclusion Italy and Scotland aren't Tier One nations.

No sorry I do not agree about Scotland. They have a chance of beating England in a week. You would not be saying the same about Georgia. A three match series I would expect Scotland to win three nil.

 

[Seaton]

I think we can all agreed about if Georgia were playing Scotland or Italy three times in a row, they would surely win the third match. And pretty the same can be said about most of Tier Two nations. In conclusion Italy and Scotland aren't Tier One nations.

Well if Tonga had to play France three times in a row... wait, something is gnawing at the back of my mind whilst I type this, what could it be?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I think Georgia at home could beat Italy and Scotland maybe 3 times out of 10. They'd also give the other 6 Nations countries a run for their money. Away from home, I doubt they're strong enough to beat any tier 1 nation. If Georgia were immediately put on a program whereby they played tier 1 nations in Tblisi every summer, I firmly believe they'd be capable of joining the 6 Nations around 2017. They're clearly the best European Nations Cup team and deserve a shot to improve themselves further. In the long run rugby in general will benefit.

 

[Peat]

No sorry I do not agree about Scotland. They have a chance of beating England in a week. You would not be saying the same about Georgia. A three match series I would expect Scotland to win three nil.

Ditto.

 

[Bail]

No sorry I do not agree about Scotland. They have a chance of beating England in a week. You would not be saying the same about Georgia. A three match series I would expect Scotland to win three nil.

Scotland can beat England exactly for the same reason they could lose to Georgia. Because England accept to play against Scotland year after year. How many times Scotland beat England since 1996 ?

 

[smartcooky]

I have tried, and now admit defeat.

Explanation on a post-card please.

Dollars; usually American

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/samolian

a.k.a Samolies

http://www.definition-of.net/samolies

 

[Saintjay]

Scotland are a better side than Georgia and would win at home or at a neutral venue, but they are not out of reach, if Georgia played at home they could beat Scotland at least 1 time out of 3

the thing about Scotland is that because of their lack of capability to score tries they are rarely out of touch from the opposition, so it could just take one piece of luck to score and Georgia could be in the lead, for example when Dan Parks hilariously tried to kick the ball out of play for half time and it hit his teammates head and Georgia did a good run from it

also may I remind you that if Georgia's kicker Kvirikashvili hadn't had a kicking nightmare, then Georgia would have led England 26-25 after 60 minutes in the World Cup, before running out of gas at the end (partly due to the stupid schedule which had them play a hard match against Scotland 3 days before)

England in my opinion have sunk into their lowest point, Georgia at home with a little luck with injuries and a intercept/charge down try WOULD HAVE A CHANCE

right now England are very vulnerable with the lack of some of their important players such as Tuilagi, Lawes, Wood, Flood and the selectors being stupid enough to select:

Joe Marler (who was destroyed by the Georgian Kubriashvili in the Barbarians match this summer),
uncreative Turner-Hall,
overrated attacker Farrell who can't break the line to save his life,
fatty Ben Morgan,
make "let's go for the lineout when we're 2 points down" Robshaw captain,
and finally a recall for Banahan

so I think for the first two weekends this is the poorest England side since the South Africa 2007 tour, Georgia would have a chance, and I believe Italy have a chance of an upset in front of 82,000 in the second weekend also

The whole world of rugby is full of games where they could have won, close tense battles.

Of course Georgia might have a chance with a charge down or an intercept but that is based on a what if arguement. Exactly the same thing could happen for Scotland.
Your arguement could be used in defence for a number of games for Scotland and Italy. Ie we were so close, they were winning at half time etc, etc.

Player for player man for man Scotland are a better team. Yes they might scrape one win in three but you would expect Scotland to beat Georgia.

As for the six England players you picked. You could pick several players from every squad in the six nations and bad mouth them. A few you named are not likely to start in the first XV. The others are all untested at international level and deserve a chance. I would have thought most squads would take Farrel, Morgan and Robshaw in there 32. I know Wales were desperate to keep Morgan.

 

[Croket66]

Edinburgh snooping around Georgian No 8 Dimitri Basilaia !
http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2011/11/26/1225071-on-ne-lachera-pas-dimitri-basilaia.html

 

[Croket66]

Some young georgians backs are in England or France :
- Merab Sharikadze (center/wing, born 1993) : He plays for Gloucester U19 team and for Georgia 7' team
- David Losaberidze (center, born 1991) : He plays for Section Paloise U23 team and played pre-season games with the senior ProD2 squad
- Giorgi Jimsheladze (center, born 1990) : He plays for ASM Clermont U23 and played 2011 IRB Nations Cup for Georgia
- Sandro Nijaradze (wing, born 1987) : He plays for Gloucester Academy he plays for Georgia 7' team and count 1 cap for Georgia
- Saba Labadze (wing, born 1992) : He plays for Toulon U19 team

Some young georgians (born 1992/1993) plays regulary in the Georgian championship with the senior squad (Gogolashvili who's playing with Georgia 7' team, Gagoshvili, Mtchelidze)

highlights : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POMH8Acntd4&feature=related

 

[LittleGuy]

Not really, Canada looked decent at the World Cup, but failed miserably when given the opportunity to play the Tier 1 nations in 2008 and 2009, but seemed to have got back on track at the World Cup, they deserve their chance against Italy this summer and have a good chance

Georgia have not had the chance to play the Tier 1 nations outside the World Cup since their team improved after 2007, with more players joining big clubs they will probably get even stronger, they deserve a chance to play sides

as for the others, Japan might be able to come close in one of the three matches but not win, they were a disappointment at the World Cup, Russia and USA are not there yet, Romania aren't a great side and the Scotland performance in the World Cup was a one off rather than a series of consistent performances like that

as for the Pacific Islanders Samoa at full strength would definitely win against perhaps sides better than Italy and Scotland, they were unlucky to come up against Wales when they were on good form as they might have qualified from the other groups, Fiji and Tonga are unpredictable as like all the Pacific Islanders they struggle to get their players released, there is no way that Tonga side which beat France would all be released to play a match outside the World Cup, Fiji couldn't even manage their best side at the World Cup

so that is just 2 maybe three tier 2 sides who could win one of three matches against Scotland/Italy

Yeah the 2008 November European tour for Canada was a pretty bad experience with the possible exception of the Wales game, it was a very weak squad partly due to the 2007 RWC being a flop for Canada, the 2009 games agianst Ireland and Wales were much closer a 25-6 loss to Ireland(who pulled away in the last 15 minutes) and a 32-23 loss to Wales, followed by some decent Churchill Cup performances. The Japan tour that year was a total disaster though, featuring possibly the worst game in Canadian rugby history a 46-8 loss to Japan.

 

[Melhor Time]

I think Scotland and Italy are close and that rightfully the home team virtually always wins. I think if Georgia were in the Six Nations they´d make it better and be no worse than Italy were from 2000-2003. I also think that Scotland vs Georgia is a similar battle to that of France vs Ireland. France vs Scotland or Italy, in contrast, is not a match in which anybody thinks France will lose. This is still the case after the shock in Rome last year.

The fact that Italy won underlines what some people have said - you can´t win without opportunities. Throwing a team to the Lions is ridiculous. Some examples being South Africa vs Uruguay in 2004 or Spain vs Australia in 2000. Georgia is much better in 2012 than these sides and should be playing both Scotland and Italy on an annual basis. I´d rate the Lelo´s chances of a win as being equal to Fiji´s chances of defeating Wales at RWC 2007.

The Scot´s are going backwards but talk like their going forwards. Coach, administrators and even some players. Going off his post match interviews vs Argentina and England, Andy Robinson really failed to grasp how Scotland had lost the games. No mention of a lack of tries but rather just bad luck and losing concentration while on defence late in the game. Scotland only know how to play one way and nobody needs an explanation of how.

There are some reasons for this. They are:

- Failure to launch attacking play. It can work - Scotland were brilliant vs Wales in 2009 despite losing.

- Lack of outreach from the SRU - considerably less work being done compared to others

- 58â€"13 loss to Australia and 73-0 to RSA in 2010 Junior World Championship - poor junior teams

- Only two pro teams and both are underfunded - Borders not to return. Nothing in the north either

- Murrayfield debt - Scotland needs to host more tests and Murrayfield more HCup semi´s or finals.

- Lack of matches in the rest of Scotland - Georgia is an ideal visitor to Perth or Aberdeen

- Few players being stars in France and England - Even Max Evans has been unable to shine

- Too many away tours vs the wrong teams - Sicne Scotland is poor at the junior level the players need to be blooded against apporpriate teams. Scotland playing Australia, Fiji and Samoa in 2012 is an ideal tour but it took too long to happen. Hopefully in 2014

- Too few winnable home matches in November. Two wins is a must but a rare thing. Rather than host two of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa it should be one UNTIL the team can suggest otherwise. Unless the SRU can get four matches.

- Scotland could host four every November to justify two matches vs SANZAR teams. By playing a midweek match vs Canada or the USA it would enable this. Aberdeen did well hosting Canada in 2008.

- Dan Parks in the team

Hopefully come this time in 2016 we are debating when Russia or Romania can make it the eight nations as Georgia are about to enter.