The Pumas in ther next 4 nations...

[smartcooky]

you know what they say about assumption little guy. even if your "assumption" is correct, it is still irrelevant. argentina have not beaten australia since 1997 and have never beaten the springboks or all blacks.
following your/nielsch'slogic the usa should start favorites when rugby is reintroduced at the olympics in rio in 2016 because they won the last rugby gold medal in 1924.
a 15 year old rugby result is as irrelevant as a 88 year old result because none of the players, management or coaching staff that were involved in those results are involved with the respective teams now.

Perhaps not, but they gave us the mother of all scares in 2001 and another fright in 2006.

Argentina have beaten all of the Six Nations at home in the last 5 years. I see no reason why they should not be capable of winning at least one of their home games in The Rugby Championship this year, I just hope its not us!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

With all this talk about the Southern Kings definitely getting a spot in next year's super rugby tournament... I can't help but think that it's going to expand again, especially due to the Rugby Championship. maybe adding 3 more teams which is predominantly argentine players could solve some problems.

1. the Super Rugby tournament can become a pool type tournament with a QF, SF and Final.
2. Argentina will have a breeding ground for their young guns to show their talents.
3. More Teams, more money, more smiles on greedy corporate *******'s faces...

Everyone wins

 

[Melhor Time]

Looking ahead to June: http://www.rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com/2012/01/who-will-play-for-los-pumas-in-june.html

[h=3]Who will play for Los Pumas in June?[/h]

The complications that Rugby World Cup years bring to professional competitions are well known. In the case of Europe, where most of Argentina´s test players play, there will be some problems for coach Santiago Phelan in June 2012 just like there were in June 2008. In 2008 Argentina faced Scotland twice and Italy once in home matches but Phelan was unable to play anything near the strongest lineup due to the late start to the Top 14 Orange which finished very late due to the World Cup having been in France in 2007 and the entire competition being delayed to start only after the completion of France 2007.


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A similar scenario looms for June 2012, but to a lesser extent. The Top 14 Orange Final is scheduled to be played on June 09th, on the same day as Argentina´s home match vs Italy. This means that players in the French final will miss the match. Should the current two top sides, Toulouse and Clermont, qualify for the final it would mean Patricio Albacete and Nicolás Vergallo would both miss the match vs Italy. Should, however a side with more players like Montpellier, Racing Métro or Stade Français qualify it could mean many more would be unavaliable. But, the unavaliability of players for the final is not the only factor to consider. Another is that not only will the semi finals of the Top 14 Orange be played on May 26 but so will the finals of the Aviva Premiership and the Rabo Direct Pro 12. In other words, players involved in the English and Celtic-Italian finals will likely be in Argentina, at the earliest on Tuesday, four days before Argentina face Italy.



It is therefore problematic but nothing that Phelan has not seen before. The logical thing for Argentina to do would be to field the strongest possible team and this should indeed be what happens. Whilst he cannot know the avaliability of all his players until closer to the time he can already have a strong idea of which French teams will not be in the Top 14 Orange. Clubs who finish outside of the top six will have no further matches after May 12th. At which time Phelan will already have a strong idea of who will be avaliable to face Italy and who will not. Currently the top six sides are Toulouse, Clermont Auvergne, Toulon, Castres, Montpellier and Stade Français. On form they are likely to remain the best six teams. Of the teams behind them lonly really Racing Metro is likely to seriously challenge for a place in the Top 14 Orange barrage. The remaining seven are in a fight of survival to avoid relegation to the Pro d2. They are Agen, Bordeaux, Brive, Perpignan, Lyon, Biarritz and Bayonne. On points Racing Métro and Agen are the only two who appear likely to catch the top six while the remaining sides which means players from the remaining teams can already be considered avaliable.



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The likes of Belisario Agulla, Miguel Avramovic, Marcelo Bosch, Rafael Carballo, Pablo Cardinelli, Manuel Carizza, Agustín Figuerola, Francisco Gomez Kodela, Pablo Henn, Juan Manuel Leguizamón and Nicolás Sanchez can therefore be considered. A worse case scenario would be a Montpellier vs Stade Français final as between then they account for eleven Pumas players. This being the case a possible XV to face Italy could be experimental in terms of positions. Phelan may like to see Juan Imhoff at fullback, Benjamin Urdapilleta or Nicolás Sánchez at inside centre, Andres Borody or Matias Cortese at hooker and Francisco Gomez Kodela or Juan Orlandi at tighthead prop. A possible XV to face Italy could therefore be as follows:

15 Juan Imhoff (Racing Métro, France)
14 Gonzalo Camacho (Exeter Chiefs, England)
13 Marcelo Bosch (Biarritz, France)
12 Benjamin Urdapilleta (Harlequins, England)
11 Horacio Agulla (Leicester Tigers, France)
10 Juan Martín Hernández (Racing Métro, France)
9 Agustín Figuerola (Brive, France)
8 Leonardo Senatore (Toulon, France)
7 Juan Manuel Leguizamón (Lyon, France)
6 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Toulon, France)
5 Mariano Galarza (Los Pampas XV)
4 Manuel Carizza (Biarritz, France)
3 Francisco Gomez Kodela (Biarritz, France)
2 Andres Bordoy (Pau, France)
1 Marcos Ayerza (Leicester Tigers, England)

Reserves

16 Matias Corteza (Gloucester, England)
17 Juan Orlandi (Racing Métro, France)
18 Tomás Vallejos Cinalli (Harlequins, England)
19 Julio Farías Carbello (Los Pampas XV)
20 Martín Landajo (Los Pampas XV)
21 Ignacio Mieres (Exeter Chiefs, England)
22 Belisario Agulla (Agen, France)


Unavaliable: Lucas González Amorosino, Maximilano Bustos, Martín Bustos Moyano, Felipe Contepomi, Agustín Creevy, Santiago Fernández, Juan Figallo, Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga, Rodrigo Roncero, Gonzalo Tiesi and Francisco Nahul Tetaz.



June 2012 - Argentina´s Home Tests

June 9: Argentina vs Italy

June 16: Argentina vs France
June 23: Argentina vs France

 

[ZeFrenchy]

^^ Great post. I don't really know many of those players, so couldn't propose a side. But, I've always prefered JMH at fullback rather than fly-half, and Bosch has had a few good games at 10 for Biarritz. Although I wouldn't know who to play 13 then... Anyway, I think some weight would help. I know you don't rate Avramovic, but in a particular situation like this, he might be helpful (Assuming Manuel Contepomi won't be available).

Also, the depth in props is amazing. A few young frontrowers should be trained as hookers, though. Creevy is very good in the loose, but needs some more tight work.

 

[Melhor Time]

^^ Great post. I don't really know many of those players, so couldn't propose a side. But, I've always prefered JMH at fullback rather than fly-half, and Bosch has had a few good games at 10 for Biarritz. Although I wouldn't know who to play 13 then... Anyway, I think some weight would help. I know you don't rate Avramovic, but in a particular situation like this, he might be helpful (Assuming Manuel Contepomi won't be available).

Also, the depth in props is amazing. A few young frontrowers should be trained as hookers, though. Creevy is very good in the loose, but needs some more tight work.

Big centres is an issue. Argentina have two good options in Tiesi and Bosch but neither have size on their side. There is the possibility of either Horacio Agulla or Martín Rodríguez Gurruchaga playing 13. Agulla slotted in there vs England following the loss of Tiesi and Contepomi in the World Cup match. I was quite impressed as he´s never played there.

Avramovic... tried and failed. Great defender but too slow to combine with his wingers. Similar to Jamie Noon.

Hooker is a worry but nothing major. There are a number in Los Pampas XV who will go on to higher honrs. For this year Bordoy and Corteze can support Creevy.

JMH... is in Buenos Aires right now and played a surprize visit to the training camp of Los Pampas XV. Even Santiago Phelan didn´t know about it. He´s got offers from Stade Français, Racing Métro and the Auckland Blues. Going off the interview he´s highly likely to go to New Zealand.

 

[welshglory]

Do you know how much less he would be getting paid in NZ?

 

[Melhor Time]

Do you know how much less he would be getting paid in NZ?

His deal to join the Blues in 2009 was rumoured at being around NZ$160,000. He almost took it too but went for the Sharks. At Stade Français he was the highest paid player in France before Chabal returned from Sale.

 

[Zulu-Cow]

Im genuinely excited about the upcoming rugby championship, I think it will bring a bit of a latino flare and a bit more colour that we see in European Rugby. Hopefully it'll up the domestic side of things in Argentina as well, who knows maybe one day we'll see a team from Argentina competing in the Super 15

 

[Tato]

you know what they say about assumption little guy. even if your "assumption" is correct, it is still irrelevant. argentina have not beaten australia since 1997 and have never beaten the springboks or all blacks.

Hi, Argentina did beat the Springboks in 1982 21-12 but did it with the name of Sudamerica XV, and as you said never beat the All Blacks but have very good matches against them. 1985 21-21. And the other matches mentioned before.

Regards.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Hi, Argentina did beat the Springboks in 1982 21-12 but did it with the name of Sudamerica XV, and as you said never beat the All Blacks but have very good matches against them. 1985 21-21. And the other matches mentioned before.

Regards.

There weren't only Argentinians in the Sudamerican team... there were players from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay in the team as well, and it was during the Apartheid period where South Africa was in Isolation, and some players didn't have the opportunity to play for the Springboks...

So... ARGENTINA has never beaten the Springboks!

 

[Tato]

The team who beat the Springboks had 15 Pumas in the field and all the reserves were Pumas as well and of course the coaches.. Any way you are rigth it was Sudamerica XV who beat the Springboks! Or we could say that the Pumas played with other colors.

 

[Tato]

Here is a nice souvenir of that game (Sudamerica XV 21 - 12 Springboks)



Regards

 

[Tomsey]

Oh my god:

9. Weepu
10. Hernandez
12. Nonu
13. Ranger

That's absolutely terrifying

true! through toeava in that mix and that is one hellava backline.

With all this talk about the Southern Kings definitely getting a spot in next year's super rugby tournament... I can't help but think that it's going to expand again, especially due to the Rugby Championship. maybe adding 3 more teams which is predominantly argentine players could solve some problems.

1. the Super Rugby tournament can become a pool type tournament with a QF, SF and Final.
2. Argentina will have a breeding ground for their young guns to show their talents.
3. More Teams, more money, more smiles on greedy corporate *******'s faces...

Everyone wins

if the southern kings do play super rugby next year then one of the other south african teams will have to drop out (probably the cheetahs). the competition can't be expanded until the next tv rights deal, which is in 2016. i think in the future argentina will get a few super rugby franchises and super rugby will end up being based on a NFL style conference system (AFC, NFC), in which australia play nz in home and away and south africa play argentina, with the best teams from each conference playing in the finals. other wise there will just be far to many games and far too much travel for the players.

 

[welshglory]

Tomsey,
I agree with you on the NFL style system. Thats the only way including Argentinian teams would make sense.
However i wonder if SA will threaten SANZAR and try to play in Europe. They do hold the cards.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Tomsey,
I agree with you on the NFL style system. Thats the only way including Argentinian teams would make sense.
However i wonder if SA will threaten SANZAR and try to play in Europe. They do hold the cards.

Oh how I wish our Rugby Union had the balls to do that!!

They tried it once, but it blew over quicker than a hurricane... Due to financial reasons, our management decided to stay with the SANZAR committee...

 

[Robert Prosser]

I think what you will find is thaey will be a lot like Italy were when they joined the six nations but slightly better as they are a slightly better side but playing against the three big boys down there they will undoubtly improve their understanding of the game and become a better nation at rugby, they will definitly be a much stronger team within 5 years.

 

[Zulu-Cow]

There weren't only Argentinians in the Sudamerican team... there were players from Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay in the team as well, and it was during the Apartheid period where South Africa was in Isolation, and some players didn't have the opportunity to play for the Springboks...

So... ARGENTINA has never beaten the Springboks!

Argentina have never beaten the Springboks! haha

 

[diegopd]

Zulu...lets see this year...

 

[Larksea]

Argentina made Jerry Collins pee himself

awesome game that, very close

Will be good for Argentina to measure themselves against the best in the world on a regular basis.

You would have to say that this year they have a big chance to get their first win over the all blacks - who will have a new coaching setup and will be blooding new players. Even many of the experienced all blacks don't know alot about playing the Puma's in Argentina - it will be a new experience for the majority of the setup.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing some fresh blood and changes in the AB's and I think their may be more changes that we would expect.

 

[Zulu-Cow]

Zulu...lets see this year...

Haha we shall indeed. Don't get me wrong I have a soft spot for the Argies but I think your still a few years away from this