The Improvement of Tier Two Nations - In Particular Georgia.

[Croket66]

How come Georgia produces so many props?

Also, a tier one nationa like Wales or Italy playing an away test against Georgia would surely mean a sold out Boris Paichadze stadium in Tblisi. Some have already pointed out that it is more important to have a team in the Amlin or whatever, but a high profile match in Georgia could spark a flame and mean a lot for grassroots rugby in Georgia.

A lot of georgian props come from wrestling, they are very good in scrum!
Canada have a good team this year, surely thanks to the Canadian Rugby Championship!
Now look at attendance of georgian rugby : http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/highest_attendance.html?id=81;type=host

 

[Jayatron]

Everyone's talking about Georgia (and rightly so) but what about Canada? They beat Tonga at the RWC and drew 10.000 people to the BMO Stadium in Toronto for a match with the USA. They've got a professional rugby competition in place with the Americas Rugby Championship (at least I think) and they've got lots of players playing in Europe.

I don't think there is any professional rugby in North America, yet. Ask Little Guy he could tell you. Totally agree though about Canada. They are showing a lot promise. They had such a strong RWC and a lot of good players. If the Canadian, American, Russian, Georgian and a few other unions take a few little bigger steps then RWC2015 will be amazing. A professional league in North America would help Canadian rugby so much. Just had a thought, would be good to see, if there was a professional league in North America, a cross boarder competition involving Japanese Top League teams. Like a Pacific Ocean Cup.

A lot of georgian props come from wrestling, they are very good in scrum! Canada have a good team this year, surely thanks to the Canadian Rugby Championship! Now look at attendance of georgian rugby : http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/highest_attendance.html?id=81;type=host

That's interesting stuff. It appears that attendances have been very strong in the last few years. All around 20,000. I can only presume if Georgia did play some Tier One Tests a sell out would be guaranteed.

 

[Seaton]

Different situation all together. Visser playing for Scotland might actually do more for Dutch rugby than him playing for the Netherlands. He already gets some attention over here cause he's the only professional Dutch player and that attention will only increase when Visser debutes for Scotland. Who knows, they might even show a live Scotland match on Dutch television.

What about is brother Sepp?

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

The only way rugby is going to gain further ground is if Tier-1 Nations remove foreign player restrictions in their professional competitions. This; however, is probably never going to happen which is sad because you have a guy like Adam Kleeberger who is playing for London Scottish when by all respects he is a fair shade better than a lot of the flankers at the premiership level.

Rugby is going to have a lot of trouble gaining any ground in NA because well their really is no money in it. Until you give clubs in both hemisphere's unrestricted ability to go out and recruit the best of the best worldwide rugby will remain a closed sport. The only country that seems really willing to let this happen is France whose clubs are filled with foreigners.

 

[LittleGuy]

The only way rugby is going to gain further ground is if Tier-1 Nations remove foreign player restrictions in their professional competitions. This; however, is probably never going to happen which is sad because you have a guy like Adam Kleeberger who is playing for London Scottish when by all respects he is a fair shade better than a lot of the flankers at the premiership level.

Rugby is going to have a lot of trouble gaining any ground in NA because well their really is no money in it. Until you give clubs in both hemisphere's unrestricted ability to go out and recruit the best of the best worldwide rugby will remain a closed sport. The only country that seems really willing to let this happen is France whose clubs are filled with foreigners.

My sentiments as well Canadian_Rugger, in fact it seems as though many countries are actually looking to reduce their numbers of foreign players allowed instead of increasing, I know the RFU Championship is thinking about reducing the foriegn allowance by a roster spot in the near future.

Several members were asking earlier about the CRC(ARC as well) being professional, it is a semi-pro league, players due recieve some money but it is really only a small stipend to cover expenses. Some of the top 7's and 15's players in Canada also receive money from the government as part of our carded athletes program. It's a farily significant amount for some players but not enough to live off of and many players have jobs on the side or financial support from family members and/or friends.

At one point early in his days as a member of the national team Ander Monro(Starting flyhalf for us at the RWC) was living with Ed Fairhurst's parents. A humourous yet pointing example of the lengths our players have to go to on occasions to make ends meet. As well anyone who has followed our tours and Churchill Cup appearances knows that the odd player has to return to Canada mid tour for work reasons.

 

[Seaton]

It's very muddied, I would place my money that if foreign restrictions were relaxed in the UK (not that Scotland has enough pro teams for its own players, never mind other countries), the clubs would opt for established players looking for a paypacket from the SH instead of Tier 2 countries.

I doubt the organisers would be able to implement anything that would distinguish what players from which countries other than their own to prevent this, as I don't think it would hold up legally.

This whilst none of the Pro12 teams ( bar possibly Munster and Lienster) operate at anywhere near break-even, so there is no way the Unions of those countries are going to subsidise for foreigners en mass at this moment in time.

 

[no-1-rugby-fan]

The more two tier nations play at the highest level, the better they will become. There was certainly signs of an improvement in the recent World Cup, where games between them and the bigger sides were a lot more competitive and closer than they have been in the past.

 

[Peat]

There are no restrictions on signing foreign players in the Aviva Premiership beyond work permit rules - there is, as LordHope notices, a distinct bias towards established players from other rugby countries over new talents. Partly that is due to work permit rules but its also just their thinking. They can pick up talented youngsters from where they are already, its experienced players to fill the gaps they need. US/Canadian rugby would be well advised to try and get something in place with a Premiership club like Georgia seems to with Gloucester.

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

The RWC 2011 was a MILLIONARE ****ING BUSSINES FOR THE IRB u dumb.. The Ticket sales were almost at the same level than the Beijing Olympic Games. (RWC 2011 230 Millions VS Beijing 2008 280 millions) That whitout Counting The TV Rights!!!! I Think you are confusing the facts here cause The IRB Takes like the 90% of all the earnings so It Wastn That great bussines for New Zealand. Cheers...

 

[Seaton]

ZOMG!!! i dinnit ken dat!!! ya u is dumn da giy Bro Brosnan iz tallken too!!! cheers...

 

[Groundhog]

(Gasps) abreviation on this fine website I just died a little inside

 

[LittleGuy]

The RWC 2011 was a MILLIONARE ****ING BUSSINES FOR THE IRB u dumb.. The Ticket sales were almost at the same level than the Beijing Olympic Games. (RWC 2011 230 Millions VS Beijing 2008 280 millions) That whitout Counting The TV Rights!!!! I Think you are confusing the facts here cause The IRB Takes like the 90% of all the earnings so It Wastn That great bussines for New Zealand. Cheers...

Who was this in response to? I really don't understand the context of the post.

 

[Me 1]

ZOMG!!! i dinnit ken dat!!! ya u is dumn da giy Bro Brosnan iz tallken too!!! cheers...

And you were making fun of Welsh being incomprehensible

 

[icsulescool]

GRU president said on televison that in January Tier 2 nations will meet in the USA and seriously discuss a anually Tier 2 competition from 2013 on.
The countries are: USA, Canada, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Georgia, Romania, Russia, Japan and most likely Namibia. It will be interesting to see if there will be a competition like this.

Also, I'll post below some statistics from Romanian "Super Liga". The national competition improved a lot in the last years (from the next season Chester Williams will train Timisoara, a few foreign players play here) and every week 2 matches of 4 are on TV.

Super Liga CEC Bank 2011
1.CSM Baia Mare (champion)
2.Steaua Bucharest
3.Farul Constanta
4.RCM Timisoara (winner or the cup)
5.Dinamo Bucharest
6.CSM Bucharest
7.U Cluj (relegated)
8.Arad (relegated)

foreign players :
New Zealand : Derek Carpenter (CE, Farul Constanta), Andrew Pahulu (N8, RCM Timisoara)
Tonga : Tevita Palu (SH/FH, 14 caps, RCM Timisoara), Paula Kinikinilau (CE, RCM Timisoara)
Fiji : Sean Morrell (FL/N8, 1 cap, CSM Baia Mare)
Samoa : Lapana Makapelu (CE/WG, RCM Timisoara)
Namibia : Renaud Van Nell (FL, 2 caps, Farul Constanta), Howard ***us (FH/FB, Farul Constanta), McGrath Van Wyk (WG, 9 caps, Farul Constanta), Eugene Jantjies (SH/FB, 32 caps, Farul Constanta)
Georgia : Otar Turashvili (PR/HK, Farul Constanta)
Moldova : Leon Victor (PR, ? caps, Dinamo Bucharest), Roman Gobjila (WG, ? caps, Vlaicu Arad)

Romanians at the World Cup :
Steaua Bucharest : Bogdan Zebega (HK, 35 caps), Nicolae Nere (PR, 18 caps), Daniel Ianus (FL/N8, 12 caps), Dan Dumbrava (FH/FB, 62 caps), Ionel Cazan (CE, 12 caps), Florin Vlaicu (FB/FH, 50 caps)
CSM Baia Mara : Mihai Macovei (FL, 26 caps), Ionut Dimofte (FH/CE, 60 caps), Csaba Gal (CE, 44 caps), Stefan Ciuntu (WG, 34 caps)
Farul Constanta : Daniel Carpo (N8, 35 caps), Constantin Gheara (CE, 9 caps), Adrian Apostol (WG, 1 cap), Catalin Nicolae (WG, 24 caps)
RCM Timisoara : Stelian Burcea (FL, 36 caps), Valentin Calafeteanu (SH, 43 caps), Madalin Lenmaru (WG, 11 caps)
Dinamo Bucharest : Cosmin Ratiu (LK, 31 caps)
CSM Bucharest : Valentin Popirlan (LK, 22 caps), Florin Surugiu (SH, 17 caps)

 

[Nielsch]

I'd love to see an annual Pacific Six Nations tournament including Canada, USA, Japan, Tonga, Fiji and Samoa. The European tier 2 countries (Romania, Georgia and Russia) already play each other in the European Nations Cup. It wouldn't be good for other European countries like Spain and Portugal if they would leave... Portugal had some very good results last year by the way. Defeated Russia and only lost to Georgia with 1 point. Also, Spain is a promising nation. Their home matches draw a lot of supporters (8.000 - 10.000). This would probably change when the top countries would leave.

 

[Seaton]

And you were making fun of Welsh being incomprehensible

Can't tell if serious...

 

[Feicarsinn]

My sentiments as well Canadian_Rugger, in fact it seems as though many countries are actually looking to reduce their numbers of foreign players allowed instead of increasing, I know the RFU Championship is thinking about reducing the foriegn allowance by a roster spot in the near future.

Several members were asking earlier about the CRC(ARC as well) being professional, it is a semi-pro league, players due recieve some money but it is really only a small stipend to cover expenses. Some of the top 7's and 15's players in Canada also receive money from the government as part of our carded athletes program. It's a farily significant amount for some players but not enough to live off of and many players have jobs on the side or financial support from family members and/or friends.

At one point early in his days as a member of the national team Ander Monro(Starting flyhalf for us at the RWC) was living with Ed Fairhurst's parents. A humourous yet pointing example of the lengths our players have to go to on occasions to make ends meet. As well anyone who has followed our tours and Churchill Cup appearances knows that the odd player has to return to Canada mid tour for work reasons.

That lucky ****.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Rugby is set to remain a closed 10 team sport for a very long time to come. I think if rugby wants to get even more competitive the national organizations of the Tier-1 countries need to open up their pro comps and find the best talent. Limiting the amount of spots on rep sides is not going to imnprove tier 1 countries at all. England are not going to lose anything by allowing a couple of foreigners to play each game for each respective team and the english side is not going to be weakened at all. England would remain just as strong as it is now if 50% of the premiership were foreigners.

Letstake the NHL in NA, some teams are 50% European yet nobody cares because the NHL is committed to going out and getting the best hockey players in the world bar none. MLB does the same thing going to places such as Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, Dominican Republic IOT poach the best players world wide for their teams.

 

[Teh Mite]

Rugby is set to remain a closed 10 team sport for a very long time to come. I think if rugby wants to get even more competitive the national organizations of the Tier-1 countries need to open up their pro comps and find the best talent. Limiting the amount of spots on rep sides is not going to imnprove tier 1 countries at all. England are not going to lose anything by allowing a couple of foreigners to play each game for each respective team and the english side is not going to be weakened at all. England would remain just as strong as it is now if 50% of the premiership were foreigners.

Letstake the NHL in NA, some teams are 50% European yet nobody cares because the NHL is committed to going out and getting the best hockey players in the world bar none. MLB does the same thing going to places such as Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, Dominican Republic IOT poach the best players world wide for their teams.

Tat would imply that the RFU want Tier 2 nations to improve (or for that matter, any of the ring-fenced national squads). The old blazers like their equilibrium.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Tat would imply that the RFU want Tier 2 nations to improve (or for that matter, any of the ring-fenced national squads). The old blazers like their equilibrium.

Totally agree, but people keep coming up with these half ass solutions to making Tier 2 nations to get better. They want Tier 2 countries to improve but without really doing anything to improve. I am a big fan of pro rugby btw and would love to see them gain a little more power to chose their destinies without having one hand held by the national unions.