Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[NickBD]

Itoje, another player being lauded but I just don't see it. I thought he was poor today and his indiscipline almost cost us the game. Most of the penalties given to the AB's came from him or Vunipola. Exuberance is one thing but knowing where to draw the line, particularly the offside line, is is another. He is too raw to be playing at this level, a few years time? maybe, but right now, he shouldn't be on the pitch

Have to disagree. No much mention of Retallick today, which says it all. Itoje fronted up well against him. In no way was he poor. He can be a little reckless at times, today on a few occasions but 13 big tackles and his physicality isn't matched in the Lions forwards. One of the first names on team sheet for me. Interested to know how much of him you've seen if you seen he's too raw for this level as I think the complete opposite ever since he's made his debut he's look like he's made for this level.

Big credit to AWJ though. I wrote him of before this game and gladly eat my words. Big game from him today.

 

[SomeOke]

Dear Lions fans - stop being so hard on yourselves.

Yes you most likely won because of the card BUT you didn't win playing your best rugby, the 20 minutes after the first half were downright awful. This means there are still higher levels to achieve.
You also still scored two great tries (the better one of which was 14 v 14 so not due to having numbers).

Unpopular opinion here but I actually think the ref was alright, the SBW card, while harsh is also consistent with those kind of tackles this year, it's been happening in SR all year and I'm fairly certain he will be cited as well.
The final tackle was harsh but to the letter of the law. You can argue that the law is wrong but you can't argue it was the wrong call. One or two bad calls but for the most part I thought he wasn't too bad. The AB's got away with one or two as well.

I'm not saying you're going to win but the tour certainly got a lot more interesting.

AB fans I do understand your pain, going down to 14 men however it happens does suck, especially when it forces your team to play a brand of rugby that they don't want to.

 

[bushytop]

Dear Lions fans - stop being so hard on yourselves.

Yes you most likely won because of the card BUT you didn't win playing your best rugby, the 20 minutes after the first half were downright awful. This means there are still higher levels to achieve.
You also still scored two great tries (the better one of which was 14 v 14 so not due to having numbers).

Unpopular opinion here but I actually think the ref was alright, the SBW card, while harsh is also consistent with those kind of tackles this year, it's been happening in SR all year and I'm fairly certain he will be cited as well.
The final tackle was harsh but to the letter of the law. You can argue that the law is wrong but you can't argue it was the wrong call. One or two bad calls but for the most part I thought he wasn't too bad. The AB's got away with one or two as well.

I'm not saying you're going to win but the tour certainly got a lot more interesting.

AB fans I do understand your pain, going down to 14 men however it happens does suck, especially when it forces your team to play a brand of rugby that they don't want to.

Yup on all points.

 

[JonoCymru]

Thought The Lions did well last 20 when it looked as though the game was gone. They did their best to hand the game to the AB's though! Itoje was superb. It'll be one almighty shock if they can pull it off next week.

 

[Groundhog]

Can't believe we won as we were terrible today. Still, its sets up next week a treat.

Yep, AB's had 14 men because one of their guys was an utter moron and got himself sent off for a brainless tackle but, this surely was evened up by the fact that the Lions were absolutely appalling today. We were so indisciplined it was a disgrace and it almost cost us. We seemed determined to give the game to the kiwis by gifting them penalty after penalty, chance after chance. Luckily for us we caught the AB's on a bad day, they were almost as useless as we were

For most of the game we played like schoolboys playing their teachers. This was so evident in the 20 minutes Sonny Bill ******** got himself sent off. When that happened we got all excited like a bunch of kids and instead of pressurizing the AB's we gave them the ball, territory and points through pointless childish penalties. We over committed in the tackle and instead of putting the AB on his arse, all too often we slipped off him and a second tackle was needed to get the player down. We were so jumpy in the defensive line it was like someone was jabbing needles into out thighs as we needlessly jumped offside over and over again. As our game plan fell apart our players went to pieces and we did not exploit our numerical advantage, in fact we made it work against us.

The AB's had nothing today, they just 'hit up' and hoped, relying on our indiscipline and the referees whistle to gift them points. This did surprise me as I thought that even with 14 men, we were playing such terrible rugby that they'd be able to do more against us. Lucky for us then that the AB's had an off day today and didn't rely exploit our inadequacies as maybe they should have.

Pluses from the game as far as the Lions are concerned? I didn't see many, nice to score a couple of tries and we managed to scrape a win we didn't deserve. The result sets up the possibility of a great test next Saturday, which cant be bad, but other than that I cant think of any more positives from the game. The way we played we deserved to be hammered even against 14 Men so maybe there is a god after all.

One big question I have though is, why is Gatland persisting with the substandard Farrell. Yes he managed to kick straight forward penalties in front of goal today but managed to miss a strait forward one too. There were better more reliable goal kickers in the team today so why was he even picked. He did nothing and has done nothing all tour. there are better tacticians, better tacklers, better players than Farrell in the squad so why id Gatland persisting with someone who has no presence on the pitch at all?

Sean OBrien too. Why is he even on the pitch. All I remember of him today was a cheap shot to the head aimed at a tackled player who had his back to him. I don't recall him doing anything else.

Itoje, another player being lauded but I just don't see it. I thought he was poor today and his indiscipline almost cost us the game. Most of the penalties given to the AB's came from him or Vunipola. Exuberance is one thing but knowing where to draw the line, particularly the offside line, is is another. He is too raw to be playing at this level, a few years time? maybe, but right now, he shouldn't be on the pitch.

Have to question Gatland too. The game was screaming out for CJ Stander and T'eo so why didn't they get the nod over O'Brien and Farrell. It was obvious to me, I know I only coach Youth rugby, but I could see it, why couldnt he. He seems to be acting like a he's under pressure which has effected his control over selection. If he had to pick a matchday team to save his life, I don't think it would be the same as todays selection. Hopefull he'll get it right next week.

All in all I'm not a happy camper. We scraped a win when we should have lost and I'm not happy about that. Our discipline was disgraceful and our general play against 14 men clueless. We will never play that poorly again and win so we should take this game as an omen. Think of what could happen if we gt it right

The AB's wont be playing rugby next week, they'll be going to war. We have to be ready for that in both body and mind. Next week will be the hardest game of rugby those selected will ever play in their entire rugby careers. Someone has got to scare the life out of the players this week and beat them into shape, ready for the Battle of Eden Park. Can't wait

Everywhere I've seen has said O'Brien was immense and man of the match. Also Stander is far from fit and plays a different position to O'Brien.

 

[mustardcharlie]

A great "kickball" manager said once that the sign of a great team is to be able to play badly and win. The main two contentious decisions today were correct. I disagree with (some of) the laws but, as they stand, both were upheld correctly. The Lions won without playing to anything like their full potential. Next week we shall see. They should still get a rollocking from the coaches and will have to do better next Sat.

 

[corny]

Our line speed was a bit better today. If we get better again and realise the NZ gameplan revolves around their big carriers we can definitely win.

Warburton deserves his place. Never in place of SOB for me, but you can't deny the amount of rucks he gets to. How often did you hear Garces (wrongly imo) scream '6 no, no, no' in the last twenty? He's not a Pocock type poacher (he never was in truth) but he forces a contest at almost every second or third ruck such is his workrate. Thats invaluable for us looking to slow down their ball.

FWIW i'd go with

1. McGrath (not much between himself and Vunipola. Vunipola 3 tough games in row is a minus and the fact Vunipola is a handful off the bench. McGrath isn't.
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis (i'd settle for Henderson or Lawes) just please stop with Wyn Jones.
6. Warburton
7. SOB.
8. Stander (Faletau is flattered by his tackles stats. He never puts in a 'dominant hit'. Makes the tackle but loses yards doing it. Doing very little else in the games.)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Nowell or North but i've no major gripe with Daly.
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Our line speed was a bit better today. If we get better again and realise the NZ gameplan revolves around their big carriers we can definitely win.

Warburton deserves his place. Never in place of SOB for me, but you can't deny the amount of rucks he gets to. How often did you hear Garces (wrongly imo) scream '6 no, no, no' in the last twenty? He's not a Pocock type poacher (he never was in truth) but he forces a contest at almost every second or third ruck such is his workrate. Thats invaluable for us looking to slow down their ball.

FWIW i'd go with

1. McGrath (not much between himself and Vunipola. Vunipola 3 tough games in row is a minus and the fact Vunipola is a handful off the bench. McGrath isn't.
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis (i'd settle for Henderson or Lawes) just please stop with Wyn Jones.
6. Warburton
7. SOB.
8. Stander (Faletau is flattered by his tackles stats. He never puts in a 'dominant hit'. Makes the tackle but loses yards doing it. Doing very little else in the games.)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Nowell or North but i've no major gripe with Daly.
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

North's gone home

 

[Genghis]

An absolutely crucial win for the very concept of the Lions. A team thrown together with only a couple of weeks training, and with a schedule dreamt up by an accountant, not a rugby fan or player, manages to beat the best team in the world (and possibly one of the best teams of all time) at home. This brings the tour alive, and is good for world rugby too as the All Blacks were too dominant really.

This is one of the great Lions results, though admittedly quite a fortunate victory with the red card, missed kicks and wretched ill discipline. Mako could well have got a red too. The All Blacks will be fired up and better next time, without a doubt. A 3-0 test series would have cast doubt on the whole Lions existence in my view.

Sorry, everyone, but as a 'lurker' rather than regular poster on here, I've been really disappointed with this thread. Presumably people who do post on here are actual rugby fans..... but it's generally been a thread of unremitting negativity, criticism, *****ing and complaint. You can almost invariably predict the total one-eyed biased views about to be expressed by simply looking at the flag under the posters name without even bothering to read the post itself. Criticism of the coaching, the team picked, the tactics, the individual players and the referee. *****ing about the finer points of the rules, when all that matters is the ref's decision on the day.

It's meant to be a British and Irish collective team. The squad may be, but posters on here most definitely are not. Lions tours are about joy, a relic of amateurism, a coming together of fans who are not usually on the same side and a team who are always the underdogs. Celebrate the win, because it doesn't happen too many times.

Well done to the Lions squad and coaches. Well done, also, to New Zealand and their classy captain.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

First game we lose at home in 8 years, and I have to be there to see it... lol.

I was a bit disappointed by the manner in which we played. Despite the conditions and no SBW, I thought we could've and should've looked to do more with the ball. We seemed 1-dimensional.

Ioane was really quiet, and watching him a bit, he didn't look for work enough. If Savea had put in that performance people would be tearing into him for it calling him lazy. I hope Savea gets a chance to prove himself in the 11 jersey next week.

With SBW and Crotty out we're left with Laumape and ALB... a combo I suggested months ago may well end up together in the ABs this year, and was laughed at! I'm excited at the prospect of those two together... while they're un-tried and it will be a risk, imo their games complement each other beautifully, similar to the Nonu/Smith Combo, and could work wonders.

Credit to the Lions. While I don't think you outplayed us by any means, you did what you had to and beat the ABs at home and leveled the series. That is not an achievement that should be taken lightly, regardless of the circumstances. Congrats!

Gotta say too that the Lions fans were amazing. I was right next to the massive group of them that filled up one end of the stadium, and could barely here myself think at times. Awesome atmosphere, something you never otherwise get to experience in NZ.

Bring on the 3rd test, expecting a big blacklash!

**** yeah you're right 8 years since SA bear NZ in Hamilton in 2009. That does put it in context just how good ABs record at home is. And how good a win this was for Lions.

SBW making history by being first AB player to be sent off since Colin Meads. First ever to be sent off in a Lions series test.

 

[SelimNiai]

Our line speed was a bit better today. If we get better again and realise the NZ gameplan revolves around their big carriers we can definitely win.

Warburton deserves his place. Never in place of SOB for me, but you can't deny the amount of rucks he gets to. How often did you hear Garces (wrongly imo) scream '6 no, no, no' in the last twenty? He's not a Pocock type poacher (he never was in truth) but he forces a contest at almost every second or third ruck such is his workrate. Thats invaluable for us looking to slow down their ball.

FWIW i'd go with

1. McGrath (not much between himself and Vunipola. Vunipola 3 tough games in row is a minus and the fact Vunipola is a handful off the bench. McGrath isn't.
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis (i'd settle for Henderson or Lawes) just please stop with Wyn Jones.
6. Warburton
7. SOB.
8. Stander (Faletau is flattered by his tackles stats. He never puts in a 'dominant hit'. Makes the tackle but loses yards doing it. Doing very little else in the games.)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Nowell or North but i've no major gripe with Daly.
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

Neither side really could create turnovers/holding on penalties because of the speed Garces insisted players released the ball, can only really remember one Cane caused in the first half, otherwise he was so quick SOB, Warburton etc couldnt create the 2-3 turnovers they might normally.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

The ref was obviously biased. The red was totally unacceptable to be given. However, what a fantastic match. ABs should always play with 14 men, makes it a competition . I'm already planning my next weekend around the final!

Congrats Lions!

 

[Chief Pete]

Sean OBrien too. Why is he even on the pitch.

So you thought Sean O'Brien had a bad game? really...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Does anyone else think it would be good to shift O'Brien to 8? Faletau hasn't really shown up in the tests and CJ's knackered however there are a number of good options to go on the flanks, O'Mahony, Warbs, Tips and Hendo all arguably worthy of starting. It's not necessarily what I'd go with but it deserves some thought IMO

 

[Chief Pete]

Does anyone else think it would be good to shift O'Brien to 8? Faletau hasn't really shown up in the tests and CJ's knackered however there are a number of good options to go on the flanks, O'Mahony, Warbs, Tips and Hendo all arguably worthy of starting. It's not necessarily what I'd go with but it deserves some thought IMO

Totally as long as it meant Tipuric coming in at 7...

 

[Nudger]

Sorry I don't see all I guess I will just disagree. I don't see Warburton impact. Itoje yes but Faletau hasn't been great and Warburton hasn't neen immense to justify being picked on back of brown nosing.
To be fair AWJ has done ok today and when Lawes comes on it should up the intensity

No BIL No8 had been over 6 out of ten on tour?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Totally as long as it meant Tipuric coming in at 7...

I assume someone else coming in at 6 as well then because Warburton-Tipuric-O'Brien is not a balanced back row.

 

[Nudger]

Hope Jones realises that Hartley is no longer an option.

I want to see geenge Hartley Cole start
After 50 mins bring on mako George and sincler

 

[anderton46]

Totally as long as it meant Tipuric coming in at 7...

Tips is great, but unfortunately for him he really doesn't suit the lions style. He's not a great grinder. He makes tackles but isn't super competitive at the breakdown, a little lightweight against the best forwards. So although I think technically he's the best 7 on tour, I wouldn't start him.

 

[Chief Pete]

I assume someone else coming in at 6 as well then because Warburton-Tipuric-O'Brien is not a balanced back row.

I'd take Warburton out, he's just captained the Lions to test victory over NZ so this seems ridiculously harsh but in terms of form he was ok today but overall tour wise average. I'd pick my pack and finishers for next week but there's not much point because AWJ and Warburton are both nailed on starters and I wouldn't pick either, nothing personal both are/have been top class but right now their down the list for me...