Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[jackass11]

A woeful performance by the Lions, they were dominated until the red card and then unable to take any real advantage of having an extra man on the field for most of the game. Their complete lack of ability to adapt to the circumstances and the appalling lack of discipline meant they very nearly lost a match that should have been un-loseable. The Lions were even luckier not to end up with a red card themselves.

If they cant dominate with a numerical advantage for most of the game, the Lions will be shot to pieces in Auckland, the Lions were actually much better in losing last week than they were in scraping through for a win in those circumstances. Even scoring two tries to none they barely won, a reflection of the complete lack of discipline throughout the game. If Barrett had kicked better the Lions would have lost anyway - and how often in a lifetime do you think the Lions will score more tries than the ABs in a game?!

I actually hope the Lions can get back to the form they showed last week and make a decent game of the last one, it would be a pity if this game is not forgotten as soon as possible.

Post of the year

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It was. A goods. Game to. Wat and should make F or a. Interesting. Final test .


Hopefjlly not many players will. E affected by any bsns

https://www.thinkfast.org.uk/

 

[TopTen2003]

Even the staunchest of Lions fans couldn't say the red card didn't make a difference- we all know that and to be honest it's not up for debate.

The great intrigue now as we look ahead to Test 3 week is two teams looking to raise their games and adding more to their armoury to answer the questions 15 v 15.

It's brilliant for all the fans and great for the tour.

NZ we know will come out like a steam train and play at pace- have the Lions got something up their sleeve that they can stun New Zealand at Eden Park?

I think it's the perfect time to bring in some fresh bodies into the 23. Tipuric, Henderson being two that stand out for me.


PS on a side note...

Can someone explain the injury problems of CJ Stander? Read one or two people on here saying he's not 100% which is a real shame if he's not at his best.

 

[smartcooky]

Jumping into a tackle is deemed as dangerous so no penalty, are you being facetious as you normally have a good understanding of the rugby laws......??

Yes, I know that jumping into tackle is dangerous and an infringement, but as usual you don't read what you are quoting before you post a reply. Show me where I even mentioned "jumping into a tackle"

And I'll guarantee I have a better understanding of the Laws of Rugby than you do

 

[jackass11]

And I'll guarantee I have a better understand of the Laws or Rugby that you do

I used to think that as well but maybe your black glasses are clouding your judgement this time with your one eyed slant on the game

 

[jackass11]

https://www.thinkfast.org.uk/

Brilliant

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can someone explain the injury problems of CJ Stander? Read one or two people on here saying he's not 100% which is a real shame if he's not at his best.

I don't think there's an official injury, though MunsterMuffin is in with the Munster boys (professional fluffer) and he's mentioned an ankle issue.
I think the main problem is that's it's the end of a very long season, and he's played a ton of rugby and throws himself 100% into it every time he's on the pitch so he's just running on fumes. He's obviously been deemed fit enough by the Lions medics to play, but he might just not have enough left in him to put in the calibre of performance that's come to be expected from him.

 

[smartcooky]

I used to think that as well but maybe your black glasses are clouding your judgement this time with your one eyed slant on the game

What "one eyed slant" would that be. My posts in this thread have been even handed and unbiased.

And you still haven't complied with my request in post 984

https://www.therugbyforum.com/threa...sh-lions-wellington.39361/page-50#post-862990

 

[jackass11]

What "one eyed slant" would that be. My posts in this thread have been even handed and unbiased.

in your opinion, listen, all blacks dont lose very much and i dont want to start an argument with you so will let you calm down first before we have a good debate!

That linky doesnt work for me??!

 

[Amiga500]

I think the interpretation of tackling someone in the air when they are taking a pass (rather than kick) needs to be a bit different from "his feet are off then ground, he's in the air, so its automatically dangerous".

Something more like "if you tackle a player the air receiving a pass out of hand, then you accept responsibility for bringing them to ground safely. If the tackled player lands high on their shoulder, penalty+yellow card, on their head, penalty+red card, otherwise, no foul play committed."

Or to that effect.


On the match, Lions made very, very, very heavy work of putting away 14 men. Doesn't reflect well on the on-field and off-field decision makers that they couldn't figure out a way to stretch a team that was a man down for around 40-50 mins. Also doesn't bode well for the 3rd test.

The deciding penalty was correct to the letter of the law, but if I were a kiwi I'd be well ****** off at losing to that. A very unsympathetic (to the game, never mind either team) interpretation of the rules IMO.

 

[BraddersTheDog]

I actually thought the red card put the Lions off their stride as much as the All Blacks. It was like they panicked and tried a bit too hard from that point on.

Also, I'm quite a big Mako fan but 2 of his 4(?) penalties were poor. Having said that, I thought the one at the scrum where he apparently went off his feet actually showed quite clearly on the replay that his opposing prop was lying flat on his face before he himself let his top half drop. And the off the feet at the ruck one was a split second with one knee on the ground before he competed for the ball. If all such instances were penalised we'd never see a ruck.

He should probably be on the bench next week imo.

AB backlash will be interesting.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

All in all, a bit of a disappointing match to watch for either side. Lions definitely deserved the win with two Try's though. I dunno what the Kiwi's were supposed to do with 14 men, but surely they could have played better than that? No team deserves to win a game of Union by penalty points alone.

 

[jackass11]

Its not that complicated, your meant to wait for the opposition to be in possesion of the ball before you commit to the tackle, all blacks in the first game tackled farell twice before he had even got the ball and weren't penalised! now they are all out moaning. Sinckler had to jump to catch a pass and faumiunia had lined him up too early, sorry, he was out of control and could have done him serious damage, not reckless, timing just way off, didnt even know he was in the air, how anyone can say thats not a good law beggars belief!

 

[Truth]

It's against the rule to jump into a tackle all ways has been

Into? where did 'into' come from? I never said into. You might need to read my post properly please and see if I even said the word into. You might have assumed thats what I meant in which you have assumed wrongly.

Like I said, you could exploit that law. Its not fair play but if you jump to catch, you're safe from being tackled. So if you're about to be tackled and you jump, you could very well get a penalty for your team. Thats all Im saying and thats the truth. You can't be tackled in the air!

Find the word 'into' in my post that you quoted. Because thats what you think I said. Don't worry, I don't go around telling people what THEY said or what THEY meant. I stick to what you post.

Oh I found the word into on your post

 

[Jockstap]

With that red card New Zealand are no longer the alter boys of world rugby -

Red Cards in the top tier

Ireland 2 I don't count CJ Stander's red as he's South African, it's not his fault, it's in his nature.
Scotland/NZ 3
England/Australia 5
Argentina 6
Wales 7
South Africa 8
France/Italy 11
Fiji 14

 

[Ground We Won]

Rewatching the game and this wasn't a good All Blacks performance regardless of SBW being red carded.

We were not clinical and didn't punish the Lions errors and penalty count enough. A very un-All Black performance. We were predictable in attack and kicked way too much attacking ball away. Some of our outside backs didn't offer anything. Ioane had a really poor game. Could we not have subbed him and kept Kaino on?

Read was invisible for a large chunk of the match, particularly on the Murray try. There was no one at the breakdown. Obviously, we missed Kaino's defence here, but Read was nowhere in sight?

Being 18-9 and 21-14 up deep into the 2nd half and losing at home is very strange for us. I thought Hansen subbed off the wrong guys, Sam Cane should not have come off. Ioane or Read should have come off, Ioane was not in the game and wasn't needed at this stage. Read was playing in the backline defensively anyway. Read is captain, so he's not going to take him off, but should have taken Ioane off.

 

[Jockstap]

Sean O'Brien has been cited for this

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sean O'Brien has been cited for this

Wow, is that really it?
I missed that in the game, but from the reaction some people have had to it I thought he fully clothes lined Naholo.
Unfortunate accident, there's nothing in that at all.

 

[Reiser99]

I disagree on that.

Both tries were very soft, and I am 100% sure they would never have been allowed in by the AB's if they had a full complement of players. The 14 v 14 issue is irrelevant; the ABs had been playing with only 14 players in a high intensity game for 30 minutes in by the time that try was scored. The additional workload of defending with a player short was well and truly taking its toll by that time.

IMO, the red card was the difference between the two sides. At the time the card was given, the AB's forwards were starting to dominate the Lions at scrum time and at the breakdown, but the card changed that when they decided to sacrifice a forward and give up their forward dominance. IMO, that was the correct decision by Hansen, because they backed themselves to be able to hold the Lions scrum with only seven forwards, and they did. The only mistake I think Hansen made was not bringing Kaino back on at 18-9 (he was entitled to because Kaino was subbed, not replaced, and they still had one sub left)



Citing is automatic when you get a red card. The hearing is this afternoon. He'lget at least two weeks IMO

I had no real problems with Garces. The only things I think he got obviously wrong were

1. Vunipola should have got a red card (not a yellow card) for his shoulder to the head, with force, on Beauden Barrett (I've heard that Barrett will undergo concussion testing this morning, and might possibly be stood down next week. If this is true, then all the moronic asshats here who accused him of faking can get stuffed!)

2. There should have a been a penalty + yellow card for whoever delivered that cowardly swinging arm to Naholo's head.



Yep, no problem with the ref giving that; I'm just arguing that the Law is wrong, and its a position I took when I first saw the "protect the player in the air" edict when it was first introduced in 2015 shortly before Finn Russell got sent off in the Six Nations match between Scotland and Wales. This edict should not be applied when ball carriers jump, or players jump to catch a pass. The player who leaps high off the ground to catch a kick needs protection being from being taken out and flipped over, but a player who pops 30 cm off the ground to catch a pass does not..

If tackling a ball carrier who his of his feet is a penalty, then I look forward to the next time a player dives for the corner and gets tackled in the air into touch. To be consistent, that should result in the awarding of a penalty try and a yellow card.

Just for discussion about your last point, but this isn't just about how players jump and if they are catching a kick or a pass. It's also about how they are tackled, as it is often bad tackles that lead to players falling on their heads. Faumuina tackled so low he was almost lying on the ground. I know this is a technique many forwards use, but it meant he was underneath Sinkler tackling his feet and lower legs. This is where players can potentially be tipped over onto their heads. For me it is similar to a high tackle when a player is slipping. It's unfortunate circumstances with no intent, but the tackling player has ended up risking a head injury to another player and for me this is right as player welfare should be paramount, especially in light of new findings on retired players. I honestly don't see players practising to jump in the air to catch a pass, it's too risky and could easily lead to a knock on. As for jumping with ball in hand, I assume this is already illegal or wouldn't count as the jumping player is trying to draw a penalty intentionally. However players have risked injury to get penalties before, for example collapsing the scrum intentionally, which was very dangerous, so it could happen again.

Onto your last point about diving for the corner, while I can see your point, for me this is slightly different as Sinckler was vertical, which meant as Faumuina took out his legs, his upper body went straight down from higher up and he had momentum from spinning around as well as the distance to the ground. It didn't happen this time, but he could have potentially landed on his head badly. When diving to the corner, the player is already diving down with more control and is close to the ground so when tackled the distance to the ground is minor in comparison and therefore the impact would not be the same. The diving player has also chosen to dive towards the ground. Though I guess from that ducking players have chosen to duck when tackled round the neck...

The whole issue is difficult as you can't make a contact sport 100% safe. However I do think these rules are slowly improving players tackling and we are seeing less reckless tackles. There will always be mistakes or players who have a rush of blood to the head (SBW), but if there are less serious incidents it can only be for the better.

 

[Jockstap]

Wow, is that really it?
I missed that in the game, but from the reaction some people have had to it I thought he fully clothes lined Naholo.
Unfortunate accident, there's nothing in that at all.

Look at his arm he's aiming for the ball and Naholo ducks into it. Meanwhile last week Sam Cane nearly decapitates a guy and nothing. He'll be banned, especially after the SBW incident, crooked pricks.