Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[Scotty]

Does anyone else think it would be good to shift O'Brien to 8? Faletau hasn't really shown up in the tests and CJ's knackered however there are a number of good options to go on the flanks, O'Mahony, Warbs, Tips and Hendo all arguably worthy of starting. It's not necessarily what I'd go with but it deserves some thought IMO

Has SoB played 8 at any sort of level? Will he have the control of the ball at the scrum

 

[MarkyH]

Tips legs, mobility and skill at the breakdown would suit game 3 of a test series. I'd defiantly want him in the 23. I also want to see Henderson and Lawes in the squad at the expense of AWJ even if he was a little better this week. SOB at 8 might be a good shout actually, but I'm constantly changing my mind about who I'd want in the back 3... Hard decisions.... I'd probably just leave it as it is and have Tips on the bench..

I'd be tempted to start Nowell over Daly, the latter running pre-planned moves that would suit a more physical winger. I'd definitely swap Mako and Mcgrath around to tighten the scrum for the first 60 and let Mako loose as a finisher.... That screams common sense to me so Gats probably won't do it.

 

[Nudger]

Like I said, you could exploit that law. Its not fair play but if you jump to catch, you're safe from being tackled. So if you're about to be tackled and you jump, you could very well get a penalty for your team. Thats all Im saying and thats the truth. You can't be tackled in the air!

It's against the rule to jump into a tackle all ways has been

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Anyone know what happened between Farrell and Sinckler at the end? Farrell was fully having a go at him in the player tunnel

 

[big ginger 8]

Has SoB played 8 at any sort of level? Will he have the control of the ball at the scrum

Made his 6N debut there, used to play it a bit more often, but hasn't played it consistently for yonks. Don't think I'd move him.

 

[davvos]

agree with most of your ratings but the Nowell penalty you mention was actually called against Murray not Nowell

Player Ratings:
1. Vunipola - 5/10. Had a good game with some very strong carries and deft hands up until his moments of madness which have really discredited him. Also gave away a penalty in the scrum.
2. George - 7/10. What a game from George, pinpoint lineouts, strong in the scrum, set up Murray's try with an outstanding line and correct me if I'm wrong but played the full 80 minutes. Has to start for England at this point.
3. Furlong - 6/10. Went relatively unnoticed apart from a pretty monstrous first half carry. Did well in the scrum.
4. Itoje - 7/10. Pretty poor knock on in the first half but other than that a good performance. No one can pump up a team like he can, the kid is monstrous. Called the lineout well and tackled hard.
5. Alun Wyn Jones - 5/10. Was he on the pitch? His selection over Lawes, Henderson and Kruis just cannot be justified.
6. Warburton - 6/10. Pretty similar to Jones. What did he do? The All Blacks got slower ball which I'll be generous and attribute to Warbs, but I'd have thought had more to do with them losing Kaino so early.
7. O'Brien - 9/10. Wow. What a performance from this man. Easily the stand out Lions performance IMO, carried like a bull and gave away nothing in the tackle. Would have to have a very poor 3rd test not to get Man of the Tour IMO.
8. Faletau - 6/10. Took his try very well. Other than that seemed quiet but, although I haven't seen the tackle stats, I would imagine that as usual Faletau was up there. Needs to carry more though IMO.
9. Murray - 7/10. Did very well for his try and kicked well. Was lucky not to get a yellow for his high tackle but other than that a solid 80 minute shift.
10. Sexton - 7/10. Having another play maker outside him worked wonders for Sexton, he was at the heart of most things good today. Defence however still leaves quite a bit to be desired, got beasted a coupe of times.
11. Daly - 6/10. Did nothing special. He defended well and did what was asked of him in attack. TBF to him, the game plan and some of the set moves seem to be built for a big left winger (Gatland probably didn't expect to not be playing North) which meant that Daly was often having to run directly into traffic which simply isn't what he's good at. His kick was a bit of a WTF moment.
12. Farrell - 8/10. Got run over by Kaino in the first half but other than that put in a great performance. His kicking under pressure is the best in the world. The more pressure the better he kicks. Did well in attack in his usual 2nd play maker role and contained SBW and Laumape well.
13. Davies - 7/10. A solid performance, defended well and made some strong carries. His boot is undoubtedly an asset too.
14. Watson - 7/10. Made a fantastic take in the second half but other than that went unnoticed. May have been shaken after the SBW incident, may be due to a lack of space. Who knows.
15. Williams - 7/10. Solid performance. A couple of very well timed kicks and did well in attack when he was called upon. Has definitely shown his worth over Halfpenny.

16. Owens - N/A.
17. McGrath - 6/10. Went unnoticed for the most part but did fine I suppose.
18. Sinckler - 6/10. Inadvertently earned the winning pen but didn't really do much else. Carried hard as usual though.
19. Lawes - 7/10. Very strong when he came on. Carried and defended hard. Has to start next week.
20. Stander - N/A.
21. Webb - N/A.
22. Te'o - N/A.
23. Nowell - 5/10. Put in a very well placed kick but also gave away a very silly penalty. Only got about 5 minutes on the pitch.

Lions MOTM: Sonny Bill Williams

 

[General Melchett]

AWJ was marginally better today but it wasn't exactly test match animal form. He seemed a bit more pumped up and probably scored a few media points for that and locking eyes with his opponent. I'd still like to see Lawes or Henderson start with Itoje but it just won't happen.

Mako showed a real lack of discpline in the second half. He should have known he was on the brink of a yellow and yet went after BB straight after the ref warned him. Has to be a finisher next week.

Still, good result.

Edit: Again, Valley you're a dosser, a dwad, a shidhead and a dalendless shid.

 

[Chief Pete]

Anyone know what happened between Farrell and Sinckler at the end? Farrell was fully having a go at him in the player tunnel

Apparently something happened during the guard of honour involving Sinkler, Hansen was asked but didn't comment.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Apparently something happened during the guard of honour involving Sinkler, Hansen was asked but didn't comment.

There was two ABs trying to start a fight with him at the last ruck,
Knowing how hot headed Sink can be I wouldn't be surprised if he told them to go forth and fornicate seeing them after.




On AWJ: I'm more than happy to admit he had a much better game today.
I still wouldn't start him next week though, Lawes starts with Henderson on the bench. I think they're both in better form and, also, AWJ is getting on a bit - does he have another start's worth of life in his legs? 2nd row is a very attritional position and he really throws himself into his work. A fresh Hendo coming off the bench at 60, after Lawtoje has softened them up could cause havoc.

 

[Mumbles119]

Does anyone else think it would be good to shift O'Brien to 8? Faletau hasn't really shown up in the tests and CJ's knackered however there are a number of good options to go on the flanks, O'Mahony, Warbs, Tips and Hendo all arguably worthy of starting. It's not necessarily what I'd go with but it deserves some thought IMO

This exactly the thought I was having after rewatching the match again. Next week when we play 8 vs 8 again in the forwards we need to maintain the defence as this week, but really need more carrying ability.
Faletau was looking so good in the warm up games, but I have been gutted to see him have not much impact in the tests. High tackle counts are good, and he took his try well, but next week we will need more. Either he needs a rocket to go out there and make a big mark, or a rebuild in the back row is required.

Obviously it is untested and a throw if the dice for the final test, but what about the unexpected rise of Lawes carrying ability?
Start with 6. Lawes, 7. Tipuric, 8. SOB. Just wish we could have opportunity to see it tested first. This would mean space for Henderson on the bench, instead of the (reputedly) injured Stander, alongside Toby.

I would like to see a little more mixing it and firing up the test side next week too. Get McGrath starting to fire him up, and get a guilty feeling Mako raring to get off the bench and make a big impact. Henderson and Faletau off the bench could cause havoc with added pace at the right time. Plus if you are not going use Nowell, then JJ could add more interesting options and even wing cover for tired legs in the last 20.

This would make my (somewhat experimental) 3rd test team:
1. J McGrath
2. J George
3. T Furlong
4. M Itoje
5. AWJ
6. C Lawes
7. J Tipuric
8. S O'Brien
9. C Murray
10. J Sexton
11. E Daly
12. O Farrell
13. J Davies
14. A Watson
15. L Williams

16. K Owens
17. M Vunipola
18. K Sinckler
19. I Henderson
20. T Faletau
21. R Webb
22. B Te'o
23. J Joseph

 

[TW27BA]

Certainly didn't see that result coming...along with 99% of other rugby fans.
SBW red card was the turning point and the Lions made hard work of beating 14 men.
The plus points for me...
George finally shaken off the bench spot with todays performance. Itoje and O'Brien immense and the 10/12 worked.

The minus points...
Mako is becoming the new Dan Cole penalty machine. Irresponsible and needs benching to come on for McGrath/Marler.
Warburton still not on top form and although a better showin from AWJ, I'd sooner see Itoje & Lawes/Henderson.
Somehow a place for Tipuric needs to be found, but could moving Sean to 6 work?
Although he did nothing wrong, Daly was out of the game for long periods. I wonder if a position switch with Williams might work?

All in all, not an easy game to watch but delighted with the win and moreso with the 2-0 try count.
To win next week would surpass anything done by the Lions in the past in my view.
The AB's are going to be in a frenzy and the first 20 will brutal.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's against the rule to jump into a tackle all ways has been

That's what I thought too. No doubt smart cooky can let us know what the laws actually say.

No idea about the tunnel thing with Sinckler, but he was clearly up for the fight. Good, I like aggression, we're generally too passive.

 

[smartcooky]

...you most likely won because of the card BUT you didn't win playing your best rugby, the 20 minutes after the first half were downright awful. This means there are still higher levels to achieve.
You also still scored two great tries (the better one of which was 14 v 14 so not due to having numbers).

I disagree on that.

Both tries were very soft, and I am 100% sure they would never have been allowed in by the AB's if they had a full complement of players. The 14 v 14 issue is irrelevant; the ABs had been playing with only 14 players in a high intensity game for 30 minutes in by the time that try was scored. The additional workload of defending with a player short was well and truly taking its toll by that time.

IMO, the red card was the difference between the two sides. At the time the card was given, the AB's forwards were starting to dominate the Lions at scrum time and at the breakdown, but the card changed that when they decided to sacrifice a forward and give up their forward dominance. IMO, that was the correct decision by Hansen, because they backed themselves to be able to hold the Lions scrum with only seven forwards, and they did. The only mistake I think Hansen made was not bringing Kaino back on at 18-9 (he was entitled to because Kaino was subbed, not replaced, and they still had one sub left)

Unpopular opinion here but I actually think the ref was alright, the SBW card, while harsh is also consistent with those kind of tackles this year, it's been happening in SR all year and I'm fairly certain he will be cited as well.

Citing is automatic when you get a red card. The hearing is this afternoon. He'lget at least two weeks IMO

I had no real problems with Garces. The only things I think he got obviously wrong were

1. Vunipola should have got a red card (not a yellow card) for his shoulder to the head, with force, on Beauden Barrett (I've heard that Barrett will undergo concussion testing this morning, and might possibly be stood down next week. If this is true, then all the moronic asshats here who accused him of faking can get stuffed!)

2. There should have a been a penalty + yellow card for whoever delivered that cowardly swinging arm to Naholo's head.

The final tackle was harsh but to the letter of the law. You can argue that the law is wrong but you can't argue it was the wrong call. One or two bad calls but for the most part I thought he wasn't too bad. The AB's got away with one or two as well.

Yep, no problem with the ref giving that; I'm just arguing that the Law is wrong, and its a position I took when I first saw the "protect the player in the air" edict when it was first introduced in 2015 shortly before Finn Russell got sent off in the Six Nations match between Scotland and Wales. This edict should not be applied when ball carriers jump, or players jump to catch a pass. The player who leaps high off the ground to catch a kick needs protection being from being taken out and flipped over, but a player who pops 30 cm off the ground to catch a pass does not..

If tackling a ball carrier who his of his feet is a penalty, then I look forward to the next time a player dives for the corner and gets tackled in the air into touch. To be consistent, that should result in the awarding of a penalty try and a yellow card.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Well then ...

 

[jackass11]

Red card smartcooky, your having a laugh!

Nahloo was trying to milk it as much as barrett was, surprised the support staff didnt run on with a box of kleenex, typical all blacks!

All blacks got all the calls in the second half and still crying!

great performance by the lions to rise above it all and get the crucial scores!

Well done boys!

 

[smartcooky]

Red card smartcooky, your having a laugh!

Living up to your username again I see!

So Naholo was milking it eh? You do realise he failed the HIA? (I'd be astonished if you even know what that is!)

 

[galumay]

A woeful performance by the Lions, they were dominated until the red card and then unable to take any real advantage of having an extra man on the field for most of the game. Their complete lack of ability to adapt to the circumstances and the appalling lack of discipline meant they very nearly lost a match that should have been un-loseable. The Lions were even luckier not to end up with a red card themselves.

If they cant dominate with a numerical advantage for most of the game, the Lions will be shot to pieces in Auckland, the Lions were actually much better in losing last week than they were in scraping through for a win in those circumstances. Even scoring two tries to none they barely won, a reflection of the complete lack of discipline throughout the game. If Barrett had kicked better the Lions would have lost anyway - and how often in a lifetime do you think the Lions will score more tries than the ABs in a game?!

I actually hope the Lions can get back to the form they showed last week and make a decent game of the last one, it would be a pity if this game is not forgotten as soon as possible.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

It was. A goods. Game to. Wat and should make F or a. Interesting. Final test .


Hopefjlly not many players will. E affected by any bsns

 

[jackass11]

If tackling a ball carrier who his of his feet is a penalty, then I look forward to the next time a player dives for the corner and gets tackled in the air into touch. To be consistent, that should result in the awarding of a penalty try and a yellow card.

Jumping into a tackle is deemed as dangerous so no penalty, are you being facetious as you normally have a good understanding of the rugby laws......??

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It was. A goods. Game to. Wat and should make F or a. Interesting. Final test .


Hopefjlly not many players will. E affected by any bsns

Tigs be like