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[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

The5thOfficial

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I thought this would be a no-brainer before last weekend but Scotland failed to impress, big style, whilst a depleted Wales did ok. Italy asked some questions of England in the first half at least. So where does this leave this weekend's clash? England should win on paper but Wales have upset the apple cart on more than one occasion in the past. Should be an interesting day at HQ...
 
Wales team:
Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; Josh Adams, Scott Williams, Hadleigh Parkes, Steff Evans; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies; Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Samson Lee; Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones; Aaron Shingler, Josh Navidi, Ross Moriarty.

Reps: Elliot Dee, Wyn Jones, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Justin Tipuric, Aled Davies, Gareth Anscombe, George North.
 
Last weekend again showed that winning away in the six nations takes something really special, Rome the exception. London is a tougher prospect than Paris and while there's obvious improvement from Wales I don't think there's enough there yet to come out of London with a win. It'll be close, I imagine Wales fans will again laud the progress of their team while the English will wonder why it was so difficult for them to win but nothing will be too surprising. Personally hope Wales win, they're easier to beat off the back of a win than they are a loss.
 
Last weekend again showed that winning away in the six nations takes something really special, Rome the exception. London is a tougher prospect than Paris and while there's obvious improvement from Wales I don't think there's enough there yet to come out of London with a win. It'll be close, I imagine Wales fans will again laud the progress of their team while the English will wonder why it was so difficult for them to win but nothing will be too surprising. Personally hope Wales win, they're easier to beat off the back of a win than they are a loss.

Largely I agree, but like I said, there have been upsets in the past. I did wonder last weekend if Scotland would come down to earth with a bump, and lo and behold they did! Maybe both England and Ireland will come down with a bump as well :) Have to give it to Sexton though, what a kick that was!
 
If the weather plays along, it could be a great game to watch. Two fairly well balanced teams who aren't afraid to move the ball around.
 
Can't read much into last week's results.

We did what was expected and looked quite good in parts.

Wales did well, but Scotland were v poor. Should Wales have won by more?

Although we conceded a couple of tries out wide, I just can't see us being quite as charitable as the Scots. What's the Welsh Plan B if we stop that all court game?

May the baiting begin :D
 
Really looking forward to this one, and I'm genuinely confident that Wales can go to HQ and win! I'm not saying they definitely will, but I think this side is good enough to do so. I know some will think I'm nuts to think that off the back of one game v's a poor Scotland, but I just do.

Looking at the units head to heads:

Front row - Not much between the two, although I'd have Ken Owens over Heartley every day of the week. Both sets of props are impressive, with Wales possibly having a slight edge in the scrum, but Cole having an edge over Samson in the loose.

Second row - England take this one. I really rate all four of England's leading locks. AWJ is still going strong, so he'll cancel out one; but Hill despite a great game last week, is below Launch, Lawes and Itoje.

Backrow - I think Wales hold the edge here, especially on the flanks. I'm expecting Simmonds to go well again, with a good battle between him and Moriarty.

Halfbacks - Again, I'd take the Welsh halfbacks over England's, but will admit Ford is a classy player. I do think that Davies and Patchell hold the keys to whether Wales triumph. Both have so many strings to their bows, and both are dangerous as hell ball in hand. Patchell is similar to Ford in the way he puts others around him into space, but he's got the advantage of being 6'2" with a great turn of pace, so he can threaten the line himself in more ways than Ford can.

Centres - Not much in this either, but England probably have the edge going into the game due to Farrell's experience and combination with Ford. I'd be more worried if England select Joseph, because he's got the pace to hurt us. Parkes has taken to international rugby very well, and I don't see him struggling here. Like Farrell, he's the steadying influence who plays what's in front of him. Williams struggles with consistency, but he's in form atm.

Back three - England have the edge here, especially if they move Watson back to fullback and bring Nowell onto the wing. Lots of pace, and Watson is just an exceptional player. Halfpenny still isn't a counter attacking threat, but he is rock solid at the back, probably the best positional fullback in world rugby. Adams has the potential, and he'll be used to playing against the English players, but this is another massive step-up for him. What Wales did well v Scotland was to drop Patchell back in defense to offer the counter attacking threat. Steff Evans is possibly the player England will fear most, he's just a devastating attacking player. If he get's plenty of touches, he should cause England problems.

Bench - Plenty of impact from both benches with England able to bring George on at hooker for example. But imo Wales hold a couple of potential aces in Tipuric and North. Both will be desperate to force their way back into the starting lineup, and both are world class on their day.

What does all that mean? Bugger all probably!
 
I don't expect Wales to win but I expect them to at least give England a game which they always do seem to do to be honest. England seemed to defend rather narrow against Italy, who managed to get outside the wings a few times. Wales played a wide attack anyway against Scotland so they will continue with this and try to get Evans, Adams and Halfpenny on the outside with space. As for defence, I'll imagine they will be much faster on the kick chase and not offer England as much space as they did against Scotland. England also struggled in the back row battle against two rather green Italian flankers so I expect Wales to contest the breakdown a lot more than they did with Scotland, where they chose to stand out and get bodies across the defensive line rather compete too much. England will keep it tight a lot I expect, they have a better tight 5 and will use this to their advantage. They will probably also kick quite a lot, targeting Evans, who isn't the fastest and Adams, who is quite new to internationally rugby. Wales have two big centres in Parkes and Williams so I imagine JJ will come back in with his pace. The backs looked sharp as ever against Italy and will pose Wales a lot of problems in defence.
 
I'd say on paper England should win but England revealed some glaring weaknesses last week whilst Wales didn't. Showing weakness out wide at the same time as Wales show attacking ability out wide is unfortunate. England will have to drift better to cover the wider channels as so far they are far too lethargic getting across, always leaving the final defender with a horrible situation to defend.

We can hope that Wales go over the top trying to target certain areas. The Scots were deemed the breakdown masters last year and were so desperate to exploit it against England they ended up giving away lots of penalties and getting very few turnovers.
 
Having North of the bench is quite the risk. There is a chance that Wales' new style gives him the space to be the devastating runner we know he can be but he's been lacking match practice and could struggle to get to grips with finding fitness and fitting in a new play style. There's also the problem if a centre goes down early he will have to play most of the game there and I don't think I trust him defensively against a firing English back line.
 
The Welsh would be foolish to believe that all their problems are sorted by thrashing a naive Scotland team who gave away scores. They'd also be foolish to believe that going wide quickly to expose England in the wide channels is the way to win, that's what Scotland did against you lot and it played into your hands.

Likewise, England would be incredibly naive to think that with the occasional quick ball Vs Italy that our backrow is sorted, it's not, and it's not competitive enough at the breakdown still. If Wales secure quick ball they will be dangerous, and if they keep us narrow they will earn the right to go wide and expose us. Also, the scrum will be a lot more equal too, so no playing for penalties from the set piece, Wales are strong enough here and it could go against us.

Tactically it should be fascinating :)

I'd pick the same England team, maybe Underhill for Lawes.

England by 10. Should be a good game.
 
Can't read much into last week's results.

We did what was expected and looked quite good in parts.

Wales did well, but Scotland were v poor. Should Wales have won by more?

Although we conceded a couple of tries out wide, I just can't see us being quite as charitable as the Scots. What's the Welsh Plan B if we stop that all court game?

May the baiting begin :D

This is the non baiting thread unfortunately!
 
This is such a tough one to predict as although England losing under Jones has been extremely rare. Wales against Jones' England have been close (25-21 in 2016 & 16-21 in 2017) but this time the personnel is vastly different. When we have run England close we had stalwarts within their respective positions for 5,6,7... years, I'm sure I heard a stat over the weekend that Wales were missing over 600 caps (might be remembering it wrong).

Having said that though, with the players who have had to fill in proving themselves to be far more inclined to play a style in which world rugby seems to be going, who knows? Twickenham is a real tough place for inexperience and people like Patchell, Parkes, Evans and Adams will have to be extremely tough mentally to maintain focus. Due to the form of the Scarlets contingent though, I have a sneaky feeling that it might.

Slightly worried about our back five forwards though. Though excellent against a non-existent Scottish back row, England have big powerful experienced boys and am concerned that Hill, Shingler and Navidi could have a tough time. Hill and Shingler due to a little less physicality and Navidi due totally to his current lack of experience. Moriarty could still be feeling some rust too so will be a decisive area. If these back 5 do manage to hold their own though, the Scarlets have looked dangerous anywhere. The two matches at the end of last season in Ireland followed by their performances in the Champions Cup this year. International Test Matches are obviously a step up but they really are a special club side at the moment and West Ham won England the Football World Cup .

England will turn up either way, we will know whether the new boys are built to hang around the first team jerseys in just four sleeps.
 
This is such a tough one to predict as although England losing under Jones has been extremely rare. Wales against Jones' England have been close (25-21 in 2016 & 16-21 in 2017) but this time the personnel is vastly different. When we have run England close we had stalwarts within their respective positions for 5,6,7... years, I'm sure I heard a stat over the weekend that Wales were missing over 600 caps (might be remembering it wrong).

Having said that though, with the players who have had to fill in proving themselves to be far more inclined to play a style in which world rugby seems to be going, who knows? Twickenham is a real tough place for inexperience and people like Patchell, Parkes, Evans and Adams will have to be extremely tough mentally to maintain focus. Due to the form of the Scarlets contingent though, I have a sneaky feeling that it might.

Slightly worried about our back five forwards though. Though excellent against a non-existent Scottish back row, England have big powerful experienced boys and am concerned that Hill, Shingler and Navidi could have a tough time. Hill and Shingler due to a little less physicality and Navidi due totally to his current lack of experience. Moriarty could still be feeling some rust too so will be a decisive area. If these back 5 do manage to hold their own though, the Scarlets have looked dangerous anywhere. The two matches at the end of last season in Ireland followed by their performances in the Champions Cup this year. International Test Matches are obviously a step up but they really are a special club side at the moment and West Ham won England the Football World Cup .

England will turn up either way, we will know whether the new boys are built to hang around the first team jerseys in just four sleeps.

Good sensible post this. Love it! Saturday cant come quick enough. Is it 2 sleeps yet?
 
We can hope that Wales go over the top trying to target certain areas.
Ssshhh the target Ford because players will run over him is a Weslh tactic that has had much success ;)

I'll be honest I'll be pretty peeved if we don't win this and I think you'll struggle to find an Englishman who doesn't in their heart of heart think we should be winning this one.

But my prediction in the work sweepstake is a win scoring only two try's so I certainly don't think it will be walkover.

But its at Twickenham and I'll be honest I only give Ireland and NZ a chance it current state of world rugby of turning us over at home.
 
Surprised to see confidence with the Welsh scrum seeing as they barely bested (at most) the 20th choice Scottish front row.
Samson Lee is pound for pound most overrated front row forward in the world, easily.
 
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