[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

[The5thOfficial]

I'd love to discover on saturday that our choice of Teo last week and our weak defence out wide was all a deliberate ploy to make wales try and put width on it early, forcing wide play prematurely before they've earned that right. Because absolutely EVERYONE is saying england are weak out wide, bit narrow etc, wales are better than Italy and can exploit the space out wide. That would be tactical genius, misdirection to make the opposition play the way you want.

And the truth I hope and believe is that we should be able to disrupt the scarlets' miracle game better than domestic sides can.

You could well be right. And now you've blown it and we just have to re-do and double bluff our tactics. Job done!

 

[TommiG88]

Aren't the Scarlets becoming a bit over rated? They lost 2 games in their Champions Cup group, the weakest Champions Cup group.

They beat Bath, a Bath team who have only been a tad better than Northampton this season, who have been utterly diabolical.

Come to look at their fixtures this season, they've only won game game against a top side, Toulon.

If England play at the best, and so do Wales. England win. World rankings and results over the past year or 2 don't lie.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Aren't the Scarlets becoming a bit over rated? They lost 2 games in their Champions Cup group, the weakest Champions Cup group.

They beat Bath, a Bath team who have only been a tad better than Northampton this season, who have been utterly diabolical.

Come to look at their fixtures this season, they've only won game game against a top side, Toulon.

If England play at the best, and so do Wales. England win. World rankings and results over the past year or 2 don't lie.

Mmmmm its a bit like a few years ago when Wales were called Ospreys. It doesn't really transfer to internationals or specifically to the 6 Nations because upsets happen. Same with the rankings. 2015 WRC England got sent packing at pool stage. In 2008 and 2005 with Wales Grand Slams again. These could all have been flukes, but that proves my point, anything can happen. You know... this Saturday is just one game..... again anything can happen as history shows!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd love to discover on saturday that our choice of Teo last week and our weak defence out wide was all a deliberate ploy to make wales try and put width on it early, forcing wide play prematurely before they've earned that right. Because absolutely EVERYONE is saying england are weak out wide, bit narrow etc, wales are better than Italy and can exploit the space out wide. That would be tactical genius, misdirection to make the opposition play the way you want.

And the truth I hope and believe is that we should be able to disrupt the scarlets' miracle game better than domestic sides can.

Most of Wales' success was through the midfield anyway, and I don't think a Williams/Parkes midfield combo exactly puts the fear of God into Farrell/Joseph(/Te'o)

 

[TommiG88]

Mmmmm its a bit like a few years ago when Wales were called Ospreys. It doesn't really transfer to internationals or specifically to the 6 Nations because upsets happen. Same with the rankings. 2015 WRC England got sent packing at pool stage. In 2008 and 2005 with Wales Grand Slams again. These could all have been flukes, but that proves my point, anything can happen. You know... this Saturday is just one game..... again anything can happen as history shows!

In 2005 and 2008, Wales were a lot better than England. This isn't the same right now, those victories were fluked by Wales.

I had you as favourites in 2015. Lancaster had lost the plot prior, and the players choked.

Yes, anything can happen. You haven't beaten England in 5 years in the 6nations, so it's only a matter of time until you win again.

 

[dullonien]

If England play at the best, and so do Wales. England win. World rankings and results over the past year or 2 don't lie.

If the Scotland game is anything to go by, Wales aren't the same side as they have been over the past few years. We've been one of the most one-dimensional boring sides in tier 1 rugby, but appear to have turned that on it's head thanks in part to the endless work done by the Scarlets on basic skills.

So if both sides play to their best, I have no idea how it'll pan out. We haven't yet seen this Welsh side (lots of new players) playing at their best. Last week was good, but they left 3-4 try's out there.

I don't fear the English pack. We won't struggle in the scrums, lineout or the breakdown. The driving maul could be a concern, and there's plenty of ball carriers there, but it's not a monster pack that'll bully us. Backs are good, but so are ours.

 

[NickBD]

If the Scotland game is anything to go by, Wales aren't the same side as they have been over the past few years. We've been one of the most one-dimensional boring sides in tier 1 rugby, but appear to have turned that on it's head thanks in part to the endless work done by the Scarlets on basic skills.

So if both sides play to their best, I have no idea how it'll pan out. We haven't yet seen this Welsh side (lots of new players) playing at their best. Last week was good, but they left 3-4 try's out there.

I don't fear the English pack. We won't struggle in the scrums, lineout or the breakdown. The driving maul could be a concern, and there's plenty of ball carriers there, but it's not a monster pack that'll bully us. Backs are good, but so are ours.

Really? the 2nd best team in the world at home. No doubt Wales were impressive last week but England are still a better team with better players and at HQ.

By sounds of it you're overrating Wales and underrating England.

 

[MarkyH]

I'd love to discover on saturday that our choice of Teo last week and our weak defence out wide was all a deliberate ploy to make wales try and put width on it early, forcing wide play prematurely before they've earned that right. Because absolutely EVERYONE is saying england are weak out wide, bit narrow etc, wales are better than Italy and can exploit the space out wide. That would be tactical genius, misdirection to make the opposition play the way you want.

And the truth I hope and believe is that we should be able to disrupt the scarlets' miracle game better than domestic sides can.

Thats exactly what I said earlier in this thread (regarding going wide early, its what Scotland got wrong vs Wales)

Also, Scarlets are clearly the most vogue team at the moment, but Bath did beat them in Wales, and Bath ain't all that a lot of the time...

 

[MarkyH]

Aren't the Scarlets becoming a bit over rated? They lost 2 games in their Champions Cup group, the weakest Champions Cup group.

They beat Bath, a Bath team who have only been a tad better than Northampton this season, who have been utterly diabolical.

Come to look at their fixtures this season, they've only won game game against a top side, Toulon.

If England play at the best, and so do Wales. England win. World rankings and results over the past year or 2 don't lie.

Bath also beat Scarlets, away :/

Scarlets are so hot right now #zoolander

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really? the 2nd best team in the world at home. No doubt Wales were impressive last week but England are still a better team with better players and at HQ.

By sounds of it you're overrating Wales and underrating England.

It wouldn't be the six nations if the Welsh weren't simultaneously calling themselves the underdogs in every game but also saying they're better than everyone else

 

[MarkyH]

But if Wales do really really good in the last 10 minutes, but lose that's basically a Welsh win? Right?!

Just upping the banter innit

 

[Scotty]

backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens).

Forwards

Back five
Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby).

Front row
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

 

[TommiG88]

So Earle has been dropped in place of Solomona this week.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens).

Forwards

Back five
Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby).

Front row
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

Solomona and Mercer to drop out again, I imagine?

 

[MarkyH]

I'll only enjoy the Wigglesworth selection if we can call him Dicky.

 

[Scotty]

Hope mercer gets a shot on the bench if we have the same starting 15 (bar 9 obv) then have underhill mercer at 19 20 2 flankers but on field lock cover, same as ford faz 10 cover.

 

[Scotty]

On another point has solomona sorted out his defence to warrent another england cap?

 

[truthteller]

My first post and Im just going to dive in. I think this is the most dangerous game of the tournament for England. I think England are rightly favourites as the 2nd best team in the world and have come on a lot under eddie jones.

There's more depth now than ever and frankly its almost impossible to pick the english 23 with so many players. But I look at the English 23 closely and whilst I see a load of quality I dont see that much truly world class. 15 injured players hurts. I see a few weaknesses too. Robshaw is a weakness at 7 imo hes simply not an out and out 7 and this is an area of weakness at the key breakdown area. I like simmonds, yes hes quick and scores tries in open spaces, but he lacks billy's size and power in the tight and experience. The strength is really second row where england have a big advantage, they can pick a few pairs.

Itojoe is pretty awesome, lanunchbury is also a superb lock forward. AWJ is a legend but long in the tooth, cory hill has come from nowhere looks tidy but unproven. Hartley V Owens is a classic clash. The welsh may edge scrum time, I think samson will best vunipola not a greta scrummager, rob evans and cole is a score draw. The fact its 3 scarlets use together is an advantage for them too. Back row, whilst the wlesh have lost the amazing faletau, moriarty is a beast he had a stormer in the wales v england last year. I also think shingler is a far better player than dan lydiate. at 7 navidi is a turksih wrestler and awesome over the ball. Lawes is a class player but really a converted lock. I just don't like the balance fo the english back row despite them being amazing athletes. IF their front 5 smashes the opposition then it all works. If they dont and they wont here its all getting a bit messy.

Halfbacks well I think wales have the edge at 9, fly half is debatable. Youngs out massive blow, care is quality but past his real peak. Gareth davies is on fire , massive dangerman. Ford is class going forward, but on the back foot hes less sure. Patchell way less experience but he has immense talent and kicks brilliantly off both feet. Id edge this for ford for experience and temperament. Centres welsh miss the great jon davies....England ...well tuilagi again amongst several others. Farrell is a class act. Strong cool, keeps his temper , offers football skills , world class kicking etc he edges parkes a very sound kiwi at 12 for wales. Teo V williams. I'd edge to williams. A cracking player fast powerful experienced. I like teo hes a big kiwi but hes landed to us a bit late and is 1% short on those tiny skills that experience brings you. England midfield looked sloppy in Italy

Watson is world class, best finisher in europe, easily. Though he is a lot quieter at Bath. With england he gets loads more chances. May is a consistently good performer, I wouldnt say world class but solid reliable with good pace. The welsh have adams and evans, similar wingers very quick, great steppers, excellent support runners, suited to their more free running style now. Evans though looks a bit special he always creates something and can finish. With the mighty north on the bench , he could be a massive threat off the bench. Brown has gone off the boil lately as has hapenny , though hapenny is clearly coming back to form at scarlets

In short, this could go either way imo

England have won the last 3 since losing to wales in world cup , the last 6 games at Twickenham have been 3 wins each. England have improved under Jones and play with an all court game, power pace athleticism, width. The welsh have moved from warrenball to a more fluid 15 man game, good set piece, good defence, good pace and variety.

Neither side will hold any fear of the other, both know each other well, with loads on the lions tour to NZ. Its marginal match and it comes down to performance on the day and luck with injuries

 

[MarkyH]

Are you from the Valleys?

Welcome

 

[truthteller]

Are you from the Valleys?

Welcome

Thank you , yes I am, does it show lol