[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

[MarkyH]

Not at all

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But if Wales do really really good in the last 10 minutes, but lose that's basically a Welsh win? Right?!

Just upping the banter innit

Wales score tries at the end and lose to England - England lucky to win and should have lost
England score a try at the end and win - England luck to win and should have lost
Ireland score a drop goal at the end to win - Irish brilliance fighting to the end
England repeatedly up the tempo and pile on the score at the tail end of a game - England constantly lucky with a flattering scoreline

 

[MarkyH]

Wales score tries at the end and lose to England - England lucky to win and should have lost
England score a try at the end and win - England luck to win and should have lost
Ireland score a drop goal at the end to win - Irish brilliance fighting to the end
England repeatedly up the tempo and pile on the score at the tail end of a game - England constantly lucky with a flattering scoreline

Nailed it!

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm glad we've moved on from the "Bash Bath" thread it was earlier. Can't we all just put aside petty club loyalties and unite against the filthy Welsh?

I hate to put myself above the parapet here as an Arrogant Englishman (TM) but we really should consider ourselves favourites at home. Disclaimer: anything can happen, it's England-Wales. Man for man we are better, and it's too early to confidently laud Wales's new gameplan on the back of dishing out a smashing against a godawful Scottish performance.

We won't give easy yards out wide against Wales, because Ben Teo won't be playing 13, I'm sure of it.

 

[truthteller]

I'm glad we've moved on from the "Bash Bath" thread it was earlier. Can't we all just put aside petty club loyalties and unite against the filthy Welsh?

I hate to put myself above the parapet here as an Arrogant Englishman (TM) but we really should consider ourselves favourites at home. Disclaimer: anything can happen, it's England-Wales. Man for man we are better, and it's too early to confidently laud Wales's new gameplan on the back of dishing out a smashing against a godawful Scottish performance.

We won't give easy yards out wide against Wales, because Ben Teo won't be playing 13, I'm sure of it.

England have a better bench , but man for man I would say its about 60/40 to the welsh in the starting 15....The welsh difficulties are in their depth. Put it this way englands 4th team would put 70 points on theirs.

 

[truthteller]

I'm glad we've moved on from the "Bash Bath" thread it was earlier. Can't we all just put aside petty club loyalties and unite against the filthy Welsh?

I hate to put myself above the parapet here as an Arrogant Englishman (TM) but we really should consider ourselves favourites at home. Disclaimer: anything can happen, it's England-Wales. Man for man we are better, and it's too early to confidently laud Wales's new gameplan on the back of dishing out a smashing against a godawful Scottish performance.

We won't give easy yards out wide against Wales, because Ben Teo won't be playing 13, I'm sure of it.

lol I can see why the english men get sick of being called arrogant, its a lazy generalization tbh Its good to see all nations show some patriotic exuberance. To be honest I think some of the so called anti english stuff is misconstrued, its a combination of envy / anger at the uber rich and the monarchy/bit of chippiness sometimes too. though what thats got to do with a game of rugby is a moot point. I was at cardiff when the welsh booed the english/british anthem and I didnt like it. I have never ever hear dthe welsh boo any anthem before or since at cardiff. I asked a few boys why, they said 1) They hate the monarchy and 2) its meant to be a british anthem not an english one.....Strange but true

 

[Amiga500]

I hate to put myself above the parapet here as an Arrogant Englishman (TM) but we really should consider ourselves favourites at home.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

On another point has solomona sorted out his defence to warrent another england cap?

To be honest his defence hasn't been an issue for most of his career - he had an absolute nightmare in Argentina but I've never seen him anywhere near that bad for Sale.

That said his form has been pretty poor this season and he shouldn't be anywhere near the England 23 atm. He's also been injured for the past month or so, so I'd be really surprised if he's in there (/I wouldn't be surprised if Eddy had no plan on playing him but is just keeping him in camp to continue rehab/so he doesn't have to travel all the way back up to Manchester today then back down to Pennyhill again on Sunday).

 

[MarkyH]

England have a better bench , but man for man I would say its about 60/40 to the welsh in the starting 15....The welsh difficulties are in their depth. Put it this way englands 4th team would put 70 points on theirs.

I'm enjoying the banter I really am. But we're better than you, consistently! Our starting 15 is fine, our finishers are fantastic and that's with injuries. This is proven by the world rankings right?

Or are you trying to get a bite ?!

Top 25 rankings as of 5 February 2018

1

New Zealand 93.99
2

England 90.87
3

Ireland 86.86
4

Australia 85.49
5

1

South Africa 83.81
6

1

Wales 83.48
7

2

Scotland 82.75

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't want to be a ***** but it really hasn't taken long for wales to go from probably the most pessimistic predictions for a six nations in the last 8 years to actually quite optimistic about this game at Twickenham.

And whilst there has been talk of the final score in rome flattering england, I've heard little talk from the Welsh (not here but in general) about the manner in which they got some of their points against scotland and how this flattered them. Basically this optimism has been off the back of the usual dose of amnesia regarding the autumn series and scotland lying down and spreading their cheeks as far as they'd go..

I don't want to get into the old world class players thing because I think its mostly nonsense. If england don't have that many, everyone else has even fewer. I presume Wales are still counting North as world class irrespective of how dogshit he's been for years, so you can subtract one from your total.

Wow, that was incredibly *****y...

 

[bushytop]

For all the English thinking we are all getting carried away, as per usual... it's definitely not that. I don't think you'd find one Welsh fan that would make us favourites. We're just feeling really positive due to a few longstanding concerns seem to be either solved or at least well on the way. Namely, a lack of strength within the squad behind the first 15 together with the fact we continued for so long playing such a one dimensional game. Now that we can see a depth and creativity in these areas, we're sleeping a little easier at night but that is nowhere near thinking we are anything other than underdogs on Saturday... we're just underdogs to a lesser degree.

When all things are considered, looking at the individual battles I would have England with the edge. I think going in you would have to give Mako, Itoje, Farrell and Watson an edge over Lee, Hill, Parkes and Adams. The only Welsh boys I could see with a clear advantage would be Davies over Care and Owens over Hartley... though it is highly possible that these battles could go the other way also. All other positions I found difficult to determine a better option, so that leaves four possible player vs player scenarios against the Welsh two.

There is then the Twickenham factor that regardless of the successes we have experienced there at various points throughout Warrens reign, it is definitely positive for England.

The one glimmer of hope from a Welsh perspective comes from the Scarlets, yes they lost against Bath and have struggled against weaker teams than Bath this season... but when they're on though it really is a special game they play. Totally agree that they haven't been tested by what England have got (and the second best team in the world should beat a Welsh region ffs) but I wanna see their game against the best as it's exciting. A lot more exciting than that style we borrowed to Ireland anyway

 

[truthteller]

Lee will take mako at the scrums

 

[truthteller]

I'm enjoying the banter I really am. But we're better than you, consistently! Our starting 15 is fine, our finishers are fantastic and that's with injuries. This is proven by the world rankings right?

Or are you trying to get a bite ?!


LOL nah just shooting the breeze, as I said england are righly 2nd in the world and reigning 6 nations champs 2 years in a row so bound to be favourites. I just think this is a dangerous game for them, its the auld enemy, neither side hold any fear, the welsh have a quality side too loads of lions, loads of confident scarlets and a decent record at HQ in the past decade. Its not a foregone conclusion thats for certain

Top 25 rankings as of 5 February 2018

1

New Zealand 93.99
2

England 90.87
3

Ireland 86.86
4

Australia 85.49
5

1

South Africa 83.81
6

1

Wales 83.48
7

2

Scotland 82.75

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lee will take mako at the scrums

Take him to a kebab shop after, maybe

 

[TommiG88]

For all the English thinking we are all getting carried away, as per usual... it's definitely not that. I don't think you'd find one Welsh fan that would make us favourites. We're just feeling really positive due to a few longstanding concerns seem to be either solved or at least well on the way. Namely, a lack of strength within the squad behind the first 15 together with the fact we continued for so long playing such a one dimensional game. Now that we can see a depth and creativity in these areas, we're sleeping a little easier at night but that is nowhere near thinking we are anything other than underdogs on Saturday... we're just underdogs to a lesser degree.

When all things are considered, looking at the individual battles I would have England with the edge. I think going in you would have to give Mako, Itoje, Farrell and Watson an edge over Lee, Hill, Parkes and Adams. The only Welsh boys I could see with a clear advantage would be Davies over Care and Owens over Hartley... though it is highly possible that these battles could go the other way also. All other positions I found difficult to determine a better option, so that leaves four possible player vs player scenarios against the Welsh two.

There is then the Twickenham factor that regardless of the successes we have experienced there at various points throughout Warrens reign, it is definitely positive for England.

The one glimmer of hope from a Welsh perspective comes from the Scarlets, yes they lost against Bath and have struggled against weaker teams than Bath this season... but when they're on though it really is a special game they play. Totally agree that they haven't been tested by what England have got (and the second best team in the world should beat a Welsh region ffs) but I wanna see their game against the best as it's exciting. A lot more exciting than that style we borrowed to Ireland anyway

Don't come on here with your sensible talk. Where's Valley when you need him?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

For all the English thinking we are all getting carried away, as per usual... it's definitely not that. I don't think you'd find one Welsh fan that would make us favourites. We're just feeling really positive due to a few longstanding concerns seem to be either solved or at least well on the way. Namely, a lack of strength within the squad behind the first 15 together with the fact we continued for so long playing such a one dimensional game. Now that we can see a depth and creativity in these areas, we're sleeping a little easier at night but that is nowhere near thinking we are anything other than underdogs on Saturday... we're just underdogs to a lesser degree.

When all things are considered, looking at the individual battles I would have England with the edge. I think going in you would have to give Mako, Itoje, Farrell and Watson an edge over Lee, Hill, Parkes and Adams. The only Welsh boys I could see with a clear advantage would be Davies over Care and Owens over Hartley... though it is highly possible that these battles could go the other way also. All other positions I found difficult to determine a better option, so that leaves four possible player vs player scenarios against the Welsh two.

There is then the Twickenham factor that regardless of the successes we have experienced there at various points throughout Warrens reign, it is definitely positive for England.

The one glimmer of hope from a Welsh perspective comes from the Scarlets, yes they lost against Bath and have struggled against weaker teams than Bath this season... but when they're on though it really is a special game they play. Totally agree that they haven't been tested by what England have got (and the second best team in the world should beat a Welsh region ffs) but I wanna see their game against the best as it's exciting. A lot more exciting than that style we borrowed to Ireland anyway

Yeah and don't get me wrong Wales have lots of reason for optimism but because your coach is a complete bellend you're significantly further behind in the development of that way of playing than you should be, and the evidence of other teams trying to change the way they play has typically been that it takes a while and that there are some false dawns along the way (HI SCOTLAND!!!) And the scarlets way of playing has not been adequately tested at international level.

And again, many of the changes which have made the difference were enforced and Gatland wouldn't otherwise have made.

 

[bushytop]

Lee will take mako at the scrums

At the scrum, probably yes but taking into account the all around game Mako bring... he delivers more for me.

 

[truthteller]

I don't want to be a ***** but it really hasn't taken long for wales to go from probably the most pessimistic predictions for a six nations in the last 8 years to actually quite optimistic about this game at Twickenham.

And whilst there has been talk of the final score in rome flattering england, I've heard little talk from the Welsh (not here but in general) about the manner in which they got some of their points against scotland and how this flattered them. Basically this optimism has been off the back of the usual dose of amnesia regarding the autumn series and scotland lying down and spreading their cheeks as far as they'd go..

I don't want to get into the old world class players thing because I think its mostly nonsense. If england don't have that many, everyone else has even fewer. I presume Wales are still counting North as world class irrespective of how dogshit he's been for years, so you can subtract one from your total.

Wow, that was incredibly *****y...

If I am allowed to generalize about a whole nation (before its banned by the politically correct thought police) the welsh are a fiery lot whose confidence levels waver rapidly from high to low. I think its to do with being a small proud nation. Also to do with their relative lack of wealth as most of their riches were given away many moons ago. But their radical swings in confidence makes them unpredictable and when theyre on an upswing with a strong side theyre a dangerous outfit

 

[truthteller]

At the scrum, probably yes but taking into account the all around game Mako bring... he delivers more for me.

Agreed. Lee is a born scrummager working on his mobile game, mako is the other way around. Mako is very good around the field and better than Lee in that area. Though lees clearly improved there as his flick pass proved at the weekend lol

 

[truthteller]

Yeah and don't get me wrong Wales have lots of reason for optimism but because your coach is a complete bellend you're significantly further behind in the development of that way of playing than you should be, and the evidence of other teams trying to change the way they play has typically been that it takes a while and that there are some false dawns along the way (HI SCOTLAND!!!) And the scarlets way of playing has not been adequately tested at international level.

And again, many of the changes which have made the difference were enforced and Gatland wouldn't otherwise have made.

excellent post and totally spot on. Gatland went 18 months after the RWC 2015 only giving out 3 new caps? Aussie gave 29 in the same time period. development is an ongoing process which gatland has failed to do. It was as you say forced upon him by events. thank heavens for the scarlets and their incredible factory belt of talent and superb coaching environment to develop players. Pivan and stephen jones have done a hell of a lot more in this area in 2 or 3 years than gats has in a decade