[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

[truthteller]

Nice caveat but there is no such thing a friendly in Test Match Rugby and you have to exclude two England wins to manage it and go back an entire decade to get your third win.

yeah 3 wins from 6 competition matches , I exclude friendlies.

 

[ncurd]

yeah 3 wins from 6 competition matches , I exclude friendlies.

No such thing as friendly in rugby all matches are test matches and the players are given caps as well as their statistic being held for those matches as part of players and teams record.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

yeah 3 wins from 6 competition matches , I exclude friendlies.

By that logic England have no trouble winning at Cardiff.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A warm up which is fair but also that odd mid year international where both sides were fully stocked.

Oh yeah, forgot that! Clutching just a little bit.

I wouldn't say Wales should be confident about anything, Twickenham is a bona fide fortress in the 6n, Wales were the last team to win there in 2012, Ireland's is 2010, France 2007 and Scotland and Italy have never won there.

That's considerably better than Wales in the Millennium (England 2016, Ireland 2013, France 2010, Scotland 2002 and Italy never with a draw in 2006) and Ireland in Lansdowne (England 2013, Wales 2012, France 2011, Scotland never but with a win in Croke Park in 2010 and Italy never)

In this competition you really have to do something special to win away, England have had some bum teams this decade and have lost twice at home, it's honestly inconceivable to me that a Welsh team that is still in it's early stages of development have a chance at nicking a win. Unless England can't get a win in Paris, which is unlikely, the only thing history suggests is that this tournament is heading towards a Paddy's day slam decider with England likely to win.

 

[truthteller]

By that logic England have no trouble winning at Cardiff.

Theyve done well there the last few matches.

 

[truthteller]

Oh yeah, forgot that! Clutching just a little bit.

I wouldn't say Wales should be confident about anything, Twickenham is a bona fide fortress in the 6n, Wales were the last team to win there in 2012, Ireland's is 2010, France 2007 and Scotland and Italy have never won there.

That's considerably better than Wales in the Millennium (England 2016, Ireland 2013, France 2010, Scotland 2002 and Italy never with a draw in 2006) and Ireland in Lansdowne (England 2013, Wales 2012, France 2011, Scotland never but with a win in Croke Park in 2010 and Italy never)

In this competition you really have to do something special to win away, England have had some bum teams this decade and have lost twice at home, it's honestly inconceivable to me that a Welsh team that is still in it's early stages of development have a chance at nicking a win. Unless England can't get a win in Paris, which is unlikely, the only thing history suggests is that this tournament is heading towards a Paddy's day slam decider with England likely to win.

Wales beat them there in the world cup just over 2 years ago and effectively knocked them out of the world cup, that will give them confidence.

 

[ncurd]

Ah yes the world cup match well apart from Wales playing far better than anyone expected considering their injury crisis. Do we really want to go into Lancasters shortcoming as a coach and how that match exposed just about wvery failijg of Englands from the past 4 years.

It still bpils the blood that we made so many collasally stupid mistakes in that match.

Do you know how we know England screwed that one up the fact they've won 23 out of 24 matches since then with essentially the same group of players.


Alpha Bro I'm on the record saying the St. Paddy's Day game is the only way I think we'll lose the tournament this year. Much like the Ireland game last year and the one the year before.

It's a shame France have fallen so far from grace we always knew before now we'd get one hard away match per year. Which I actually think was more pivotal to our 13 year long dry spell for a Grand Slam than us being essentially poor team I think the 6 2nd places and 1 win kind of prove that.

 

[truthteller]

Ah yes the world cup match well apart from Wales playing far better than anyone expected considering their injury crisis. Do we really want to go into Lancasters shortcoming as a coach and how that match exposed just about wvery failijg of Englands from the past 4 years.

It still bpils the blood that we made so many collasally stupid mistakes in that match.

Do you know how we know England screwed that one up the fact they've won 23 out of 24 matches since then with essentially the same group of players.


Alpha Bro I'm on the record saying the St. Paddy's Day game is the only way I think we'll lose the tournament this year. Much like the Ireland game last year and the one the year before.

It's a shame France have fallen so far from grace we always knew before now we'd get one hard away match per year. Which I actually think was more pivotal to our 13 year long dry spell for a Grand Slam than us being essentially poor team I think the 6 2nd places and 1 win kind of prove that.

England are better than Ireland I also think Wales will beat Ireland this season. The welsh smashed them last season and have improved a lot since.

 

[ncurd]

England are better than Ireland I also think Wales will beat Ireland this season. The welsh smashed them last season and have improved a lot since.

Wait a second you don't only think your going to win at Twickers beating the no. 2 side in the world your also think your going to beat no. 3 Ireland at Lansdowne Road?

I will point out only 4 months ago you couldn't beat the no. 4 side at home.

 

[truthteller]

Wait a second you don't only think your going to win at Twickers beating the no. 2 side in the world your also think your going to beat no. 3 Ireland at Lansdowne Road?

I will point out only 4 months ago you couldn't beat the no. 4 side at home.

I didnt way wales would beat england I said they have a chance, try no to mis-represent or mis-quote posters its really dishonest of you, I did say wales will beat Ireland though

 

[NickBD]

in 120 odd years england are only 3 or 4 games ahead, so the vastness of english numerical advantages hasnt really played out. as for the lions england had 19 wales 16, hardly a huge difference. Wales have had 3 grand slams in the last 12 years, england only 1. Id also add a reason wales lost their way in 2014 to 2017 is because they had an
idiot in charge of the WRU who decided to starve regions in order to pay all welsh rugbys debts quicker. it meant a mass exodus of the welsh grand slam team of 2012 and championship winners of 2013 and lions winners 2013. Its only now this is being turned around and welsh stars are staying together in wales. That makes a huge difference in a small nation

I mean you can't use this to back up any point, considering the coach.

Last year it was 11 now 12 next 13. It's like an annual argument. Why stop at 12 years shall we go back 2 more years.

 

[truthteller]

I mean you can't use this to back up any point, considering the coach.

Last year it was 11 now 12 next 13. It's like an annual argument. Why stop at 12 years shall we go back 2 more years.

I take your point about where to cut it off, I just chose the england world cup win as a reference point as it was also the time wales set up professional regions too

 

[TommiG88]

Technically, when we lost at twickenham at the World Cup, it was a Neutral Ground.... so yeah. Doesn't count either.

 

[bushytop]

Technically, when we lost at twickenham at the World Cup, it was a Neutral Ground.... so yeah. Doesn't count either.

Whatever makes you feel better...

If it were in Cardiff and Wales were the first host nation to ever get knocked out of a World Cup at the first round stage, I'm pretty sure you would see it differently. With the uphill task we have ahead of ourselves, we will take some solace from it regardless.

Both England and Ireland are incredibly difficult matches when their at home... it amazes me that our two most recent slams came in this rotation. What I will say is that during 2008 in particular and to a lesser degree in 2012, us Welsh were being told exactly the same thing then before our trip up the m4. We were told that we had no chance in either England or Ireland... do you know what we were told after beating them? Sh@t 6 nations, even though all the talk at the start of those tournaments was around how competitive it was.

I guarantee everyone here that if... and it's a BIG FAT if Wales win the next two matches, the consensus on here (& elsewhere) will be that Wales won a sh@t 6 nations, where as if either England or Ireland had won it in EXACTLY the same manner, there would be no issue. There does seem to be some double standards within this England Ireland love-in... thankfully we saved Scotland from joining what would have been a disturbing threesome last week.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Whatever makes you feel better...

If it were in Cardiff and Wales were the first host nation to ever get knocked out of a World Cup at the first round stage, I'm pretty sure you would see it differently. With the uphill task we have ahead of ourselves, we will take some solace from it regardless.

Both England and Ireland are incredibly difficult matches when their at home... it amazes me that our two most recent slams came in this rotation. What I will say is that during 2008 in particular and to a lesser degree in 2012, us Welsh were being told exactly the same thing then before our trip up the m4. We were told that we had no chance in either England or Ireland... do you know what we were told after beating them? Sh@t 6 nations, even though all the talk at the start of those tournaments was around how competitive it was.

I guarantee everyone here that if... and it's a BIG FAT if Wales win the next two matches, the consensus on here (& elsewhere) will be that Wales won a sh@t 6 nations, where as if either England or Ireland had won it in EXACTLY the same manner, there would be no issue. There does seem to be some double standards within this England Ireland love-in... thankfully we saved Scotland from joining what would have been a disturbing threesome last week.

The Welsh are the last who should be laughing at this as you were the actual first to have a world cup with all your games at home and go out in the group stages. Only difference is you had co hosts who also played their games at home.

It's quite common to see this selective amnesia or moving the goalposts when wanting to stick the boot into England whilst simultaneously ignoring Wales having exactly the same failing.

 

[bushytop]

The Welsh are the last who should be laughing at this as you were the actual first to have a world cup with all your games at home and go out in the group stages. Only difference is you had co hosts who also played their games at home.

It's quite common to see this selective amnesia or moving the goalposts when wanting to stick the boot into England whilst simultaneously ignoring Wales having exactly the same failing.

Wasn't actually laughing, just pointing out that TommiG88 was undermining it as an achievement but if the shoe was on the other foot it would be used against us. You seem very touchy on this subject, are you sure that your alright... I mean come on it's been 2 and a half years, a grand slam and two championships since... can't believe it still triggers you so...

 

[ncurd]

Here's the problem with both of Wales' recent slams their record outside the tournament has been appalling. In 2008 they had just lost a game against Fiji at a world cup! There was also a loss to Japan in there.

Why Wales have been good the've never backed up a slam with sustained success outside of it. To me its less of weak 6 nations but maybe Wales were never quite as good as thier fans wanted them to be. England have two real golden era's since professionalism which was 2002-3 and now the parst two years both of which have been around slams. Wales havent had that sucess.

 

[bushytop]

Here's the problem with both of Wales' recent slams their record outside the tournament has been appalling. In 2008 they had just lost a game against Fiji at a world cup! There was also a loss to Japan in there.

Why Wales have been good the've never backed up a slam with sustained success outside of it. To me its less of weak 6 nations but maybe Wales were never quite as good as thier fans wanted them to be. England have two real golden era's since professionalism which was 2002-3 and now the parst two years both of which have been around slams. Wales havent had that sucess.

All fair but none of it reflects on the qulaity of the tournament, only the perceived quality when Wales then go on to invariably fail at the holy grail that is a SH scalp. All I'm saying is if Wales somehow manage to beat England and Ireland this year but then fail miserably in Argentina this summer and in the AI, while let's say both England and Ireland smash through their respective summer tours and AIs... it takes nothing away from the fact that Wales would have simply got it right when it mattered most, and by extension nothing away from the competition.

 

[The5thOfficial]

So, Gatland and Jones are pretty much cut from the same cloth according to Sir Clive Woodward (Daily Mail today). Very interesting although not particularly deep piece.

"Gatland has coached two Lions tours but Eddie hasn't yet had that honour. This is quite important for Saturday. At home England start as favourites but that is countered by the fact that Gatland worked very closely with all England big hitters, he really knows what makes Owen Farrell, Marjo Itoje, Mako Vunipola, Courtney Lawes and Anthony Watson Tick. Additionally, he didn't pick Chris Robshaw, Hartley, Brown or Ford for the Lions and there will be reasons why"

I love build-ups to big games!

 

[Jakedood]

So, Gatland and Jones are pretty much cut from the same cloth according to Sir Clive Woodward (Daily Mail today). Very interesting although not particularly deep piece.

"Gatland has coached two Lions tours but Eddie hasn't yet had that honour. This is quite important for Saturday. At home England start as favourites but that is countered by the fact that Gatland worked very closely with all England big hitters, he really knows what makes Owen Farrell, Marjo Itoje, Mako Vunipola, Courtney Lawes and Anthony Watson Tick. Additionally, he didn't pick Chris Robshaw, Hartley, Brown or Ford for the Lions and there will be reasons why"

I love build-ups to big games!

However he did Pick Rob Howley....