RWC: England - Scotland (01-10-2011, 20:30)

[no-1-rugby-fan]

Typical kicking game, England just found a way to win without being very convincing. They are not going to win the World Cup but shead beat France.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Typical kicking game, England just found a way to win without being very convincing. They are not going to win the World Cup but shead beat France.

Haven't people learned that you can never a rule a side out simply because of poor form. Poor form always stops somewhere; see Ireland until the England match in the six nations, and until Australia this world cup. This said we definitely shouldnt win the world cup, but I dont think you can tell these things simply from form

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

searching through these stats my sympathy for Scotland has given way slightly to the feeling that the table as should be by end of the pool stages should genuinely reflect how teams have been: Scotland have scored 4 tries this tournament; the only teams they have scored less than Scotland are georgia and romania (and yes, less than namibia, russia etc) you simply cant hope to advance with figures like that

 

[j'nuh]

Still, we could argue all night! Wiggs isn't world class I agree. The worrying issue is that England are short of a top 9.

It's difficult to blame Youngs for what happened today. He was given few options by receivers standing too far away from the ruck, an attack that wasn't very fluid and wasn't getting over the gainline, a 10 who seemed way too eager to take the ball into contact/kick (no wonder Ashton saw no ball), which also then meant that if Wilkinson did take it into contact, the next receiver is the dynamic speedster that is Tindall...

Good 9s will play well when the forwards provide the platform, and the 10 provides a good attacking game. On both counts, we failed. (We did worse than Scotland in all aspects of the tight game and Wilkinson was poor.)

Is it too risky at this stage to try Armitage at 12? He seems comfortable in whatever position you play him, seems to be playing really well and it would free a wing up for Cueto whilst increasing the speed of delivery to Ashton and Tuilagi. He might be a little too small for the role, but... it might be worth trying 20 minutes from the end of the game against France (if Flood doesn't help to speed up the delivery to the back 3).

Also, this:

Haven't people learned that you can never a rule a side out simply because of poor form. Poor form always stops somewhere; see Ireland until the England match in the six nations, and until Australia this world cup. This said we definitely shouldnt win the world cup, but I dont think you can tell these things simply from form

Sometimes there are simple solutions which make a team work a lot better. One example off the top of my head is step-up in ability England had when Youngs originally came in for Care. We fast started improving. It might be that one or two changes to this team is all that's needed to kickstart our WC. We looked fairly impressive against Romania and have had good perfomances in the last year with a very similar team to what we're playing now, so it isn't as if we're miles off where we need to be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Armitage has played a decent amount of 13 at club level, I think - however at international level I'd only play him there off of the bench, I don't think putting him straight in at 13 now would be right considering it's now going to be a knockout and he could, potentially, have a mare




It's a shame Johnson hasn't given Simpson more time - he's got the potential to be world class, but it's hard to shine when only getting like 20minutes game time

 

[Saintjay]

Did any one take any plus points from the game today?

For me England have now faced two tough games Argentina and Scotland and despite not being great they have dug out a victory. We should at least be looking at the knock out stages with a very battle harded team. Who at least believe they can win, yes even if it means winning ugly. I do not think any team in the six nations would want to face a Scotland team that has there backs to the wall, in a must win game. As far as I can see we are the only team to face the it's us or them situation and despite the points required by Scotland it was nearly a knock out match. So they at least held there nerve and kept in touch of the game.

We are still due at least one good game where it all comes together, but maybe so are the French.

Ashton still has an eye for the try line and Foden looks secure at full-back in my opinion, and I say that not just as a Saints fan. Because Lawes looked a little rusty and has clearly not played for a number of weeks and Thompson's throwing went a little wayward as it has a habit of doing.

Armitage seemed ok, and Tuilagi was hitting people like a train.

So these are some of the things that at least made me feel like it was not all bad.

 

[Nobblynick]

Good 9s will play well when the forwards provide the platform, and the 10 provides a good attacking game. On both counts, we failed. (We did worse than Scotland in all aspects of the tight game and Wilkinson was poor.)

Agreed a good 9 plays well when the forwards provide a platform which didn't happen today. A World Class 9 is world class regardless. The attacking game of the 10 starts with the service from the 9. His 'attacking game' has no bearing on the performance of the 9. In fact it is entirely on the contrary.

Armitage at 12 is interesting, although he has no experience there. As a 13 maybe, but Tuilagi is not a number 12 and he performed well at 13 today.

The chain of 9, 10, 12 just simply isn't good enough.

 

[kovana]

What a game! Epic stuff with Ashton in the End!!! Also.. i picked England to win.. But by more then 7... Arghhh 100 cash down the drain!

 

[mustardcharlie]

Said it before, perhaps not on this forum, but Care always has to take one or two steps before delivering. Don't think he's international class tbh. But he ain't there so it don't signify, do it?

 

[LittleGuy]

Is it just me or does Dan Parks always deliver a fantastic performance at the very moment his spot looks in jeopardy and that often when he plays well the rest of the team manages to find a way to cough up the victory in the final 5 minutes?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Is it just me or does Dan Parks always deliver a fantastic performance at the very moment his spot looks in jeopardy and that often when he plays well the rest of the team manages to find a way to cough up the victory in the final 5 minutes?

Whats even more worrying is that Parks actually attacked the advantage line instead of digging a hole behind it and staying in it.

 

[Seaton]

Is it just me or does Dan Parks always deliver a fantastic performance at the very moment his spot looks in jeopardy and that often when he plays well the rest of the team manages to find a way to cough up the victory in the final 5 minutes?

Are you saying it was the rest of the teams fault that we lost?

Every player played out of their skins, however everyone in this game must equally shoulder some of the blame, here's why I say so:
the forwards were asleep and allowed yet another restart to be reclaimed by the opposition straight after we scored, from which they scored from.
Paterson missed a tackle on Foden in the English after a great chase that would have put us in a fantastic position.
Danielli tried one chip kick too many, when it wasn't on.
Nick de Luca with that rather embarrasing attempt at picking up the ball to dot it down, also gave away 3 penalties, one of which resulted in the English try.
Ross Ford gave away the same penalty twice when we had all the momentum.
Mike Blair took too many quicktaps and ran away from his support, lost the ball.
Andy Robinson brought on Dickinson for Jacobsen, every scrummed after that we were either shoved backwards or penalised.
Dan Parks continuously regifted the English possesion in one period in the first half, the period when Wilkinson missed those kicks, with kicks that never found touch, kicked a grubber when there was a wall in front of him, turned over, last but not least, the stupid decision to go for the up and under, whilst we were just outside their 22. WTF? When has that ever worked?

All in all, whilst I am disappointed with the results, I came into this tournament expecting only that our players give their all, and apart from the forwards in the Romania game, I was not disappointed. I am proud of our team being able to compete with the best in the world despite minimal player resources, they played as hard as they could, not as well as they could but the passion was evident. Some players, like Hines, Jacobsen, Parks, Danielli and Paterson have probably played their last games, and I wish them the best of luck for all their effort and tears of the years, especially Parks whom I have given a lot of grief over the years. In Ross Ford, Richie Gray, Johnnie Beattie, Ross Rennie, Rudriah Jackson/ Duncan Weir, Mark Bennet and Joe Ansbro we have a solid spine and foundation to build around towards the next World Cup in England.

We may have gone out in the group stages now, and it may sound ironic, but at the pace we are improving, and with the All Blacks possibly not competing in 2015 , I will live in my dreamland thinking that we could actually be contenders...

 

[Saintjay]

Good old England have now had to discipline three players for being abusive towards hotel staff. No wonder half the world things we are idiots. We are not playing well and are behaving like an amateur tour party to Grimsby.

 

[Seaton]

Good old England have now had to discipline three players for being abusive towards hotel staff. No wonder half the world things we are idiots. We are not playing well and are behaving like an amateur tour party to Grimsby.

Keep it a fraction, square it, multiply by 4, convert to a percentage and minus whatever percentage half of Englands population is of the world total.

Then you are correct.

 

[Izzoard]

I see Armitage is cited for a high tackle. Does anyone have a clip of the incident?

 

[JW.]

Good old England have now had to discipline three players for being abusive towards hotel staff. No wonder half the world things we are idiots. We are not playing well and are behaving like an amateur tour party to Grimsby.

They weren't abusive, they made a comment that in there mind was funny (could've well been funny, seeing it involved Haskell,Ashton and Hartley) but the girl/woman involved didn't like the comment and felt insulted and complained. Ofcourse this gets blown up by the media because it involves England.

 

[Peat]

It's a nothing incident, one of those stupid things that most of us have done, but we're not England players at the World Cup. It's idiocy and frankly Johnno should get Rowntree and Ford with him, drag the culprits around the back of the hotel, and give them a going over with some rubber hoses.

 

[JW.]

It's a nothing incident, one of those stupid things that most of us have done, but we're not England players at the World Cup. It's idiocy and frankly Johnno should get Rowntree and Ford with him, drag the culprits around the back of the hotel, and give them a going over with some rubber hoses.

Court-session! Judge MJ has ruled!

 

[gingergenius]

I see Armitage is cited for a high tackle. Does anyone have a clip of the incident?

I remember it at the time - a nothing incident. If he gets a ban for that then the irb's gone nuts.

And more tabloid media storms being whipped up, the girl's being a whiny little ***** and decided to make some money by selling her story. What a shame Johnno can't tell all the snivelling little journos to fill their Sunday wankrags with a big image of him and his middle finger.

 

[Teh Mite]

Has anyone actually seen a picture of the bulldog-chewing-on-a-wasp who Haskell asked for an "Aussie Kiss".

She should have been grateful. It was likely the only proposition she's ever had. Ever.



In other news, is anyone really surprised that Armitage played a game of lock, stock and 2 swinging forearms? Being that model of self control he's always shown himself up for?