RWC: Argentina - England (10-09-2011, 20:30)

[Izzoard]

Booing kicks is unclassy now? It's called a great atmosphere and being a fan.

It's for football fans not rugby and yes, it's not very classy at all. I was sat with Ire fans, SA and NZ who all agreed it was not in the spirit of the game.

 

[Izzoard]

Wilko was interviewed last week about kicking indoors. He said it was actually harder when there are no variables, the lack of varioable in itself being a variable. Which seems really wierd to me but there you go.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They mentioned on the commentary (I think? Or post match or something) that Wilko had said it was hard to kick in there

 

[Izzoard]

They mentioned on the commentary (I think? Or post match or something) that Wilko had said it was hard to kick in there

Wilko had said so before the game. I also thought the opposition kicker was supposed to be good and he had a hard time of it.

 

[RoosTah]

Have to say I thought Argentina were extremely unlucky not to win this. England were pretty awful and one-dimensional considering they were playing against a side that has barely had any time together... The kicking was extremely surprising from both teams as well I think.

What I took from this match though:

1. Wilkinson is not the player he used to be and the English back line in general seriously lacks imagination
2. England's scrum will still cause problems for everyone
3. Argentina would have won the game if Contemponi stayed on and probably should have won it anyway.
4. England's "All Black" jerseys made them look ridiculous and after that performance they will rightly be derided by many a sneering headline in the NZ press ("dressing like the All Blacks doesn't mean you can play like them" will be the likely theme)
5. Argentina's game plan needs more depth... the up and under-style won't cut it against more imaginative teams come knock-out time.

 

[RoosTah]

It's for football fans not rugby and yes, it's not very classy at all. I was sat with Ire fans, SA and NZ who all agreed it was not in the spirit of the game.

The booing wasn't really that shocking... generally New Zealand crowds will show a bit of disrespect to a side that plays consistently negatively, and that's fair enough - they paid their money to watch a game of rugby after all. Besides, after a while the decision to go to the posts wasn't even sound from a conservative tactical perspective; if your kickers are only making 20% of their shots, then it becomes a low percentage play and you may as well keep the pressure on. In the end the crowd was just booing bloody dumb rugby.
And no, Soccer fans don't do that fyi - they wouldn't have the insight to respond negatively to the tactics employed by a team. They would simply try and murder the guy sitting next to them because he's wearing the wrong colour shirt.

 

[j-dawg]

Ah ... I'll let you simmer down first. Obviously worked up because how rubbish England played. If you want to take me down the route of trying to be funny or clever then you won't.

From the many games I have watched Haskell in ... Wasps, Stade and England ... he has a tendency to have a little cry when someone touches him but he cannot seem to fathom that what you dish out may sometimes come back to haunt you. Note for the cry babies ... this does not imply an eye for an eye, because some as usual will interpret it that way. If there is gouging then there's a lengthy ban ... if there is nothing then Haskell should get punishment for overreacting. Or because he is English that should not happen?

Questioning my rugby knowledge is laughable. Even your last sentence made me cry. Sitting in front of my computer screen ... like you are doing also? A 12 year old comment at best.



Illustrious lol ... Haskell is an idiot plain and simple ... see his celebration against Wales at 'HQ' ...

Now we get to the bottom of it.

 

[smb64]

Why do people even care that England are wearing a black jersey? France played in white earlier and I couldn't give a shite. Even if I was from NZ I really wouldn't care at all. Even if its heritage it doesn't give you the right to exclusively own a color. I really do wonder if the reaction to it would have been been the same if it were any other team other than England wearing black.

 

[superhans121]

Wilko had said so before the game. I also thought the opposition kicker was supposed to be good and he had a hard time of it.

hahahaha what a load of ****. I see Johnson also mentioned the "wind" - guys, it was an indoor stadium. If there is any justice Wilko will be dropped for Flood, he was absolutely dire. Why the press continue to fawn over their 'golden boy' is frankly a mystery.

 

[j-dawg]

One bad game doesn't make a player crap, or **** or dire or anything else. It was a bad performance. If I had been dropped for every bad performance I've given...well I would never have been dropped at all (sarcasm). Wilko can guide us through. He's done it before and we trust him. Argentina were majorly up for this game as the underdogs punching above their weight, they RELISH that.

Turning point for me was Youngs coming on.

 

[RoosTah]

Why do people even care that England are wearing a black jersey? France played in white earlier and I couldn't give a shite. Even if I was from NZ I really wouldn't care at all. Even if its heritage it doesn't give you the right to exclusively own a color. I really do wonder if the reaction to it would have been been the same if it were any other team other than England wearing black.

It just looks trite that's why. I'm an Australian and at first I thought it was a bit of a laugh, but seeing England basically walking out dressed as the All Blacks just seemed... shallow, stupid and unnecessary. It made them look like a pack of wannabes and marketing whores. Yes, France wore all white, with blue and red bits here and there, but at least white is one of the colours they use and has been their away jersey before. England's colours are red and white; they've never worn black.

Put it this way: if the wallabies decided to tour England and walked out in all white with navy socks and a couple hints of red it would look bloody stupid. Likewise, England going to NZ and playing their first match in All Black - particularly when their normal strip doesn't clash with their opposition - looks bloody stupid.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why do people even care that England are wearing a black jersey? France played in white earlier and I couldn't give a shite.

Exactly this - (people who care about this from) NZ need to get over themselves




I hadn't realised that White doesn't clash with White?

We've always worn our change kit vs Argentina

 

[RoosTah]

Exactly this - (people who care about this from) NZ need to get over themselves

See above.
Honestly, you're right: it's not a big deal really. But actually seeing England walk out in All Black I couldn't help rolling my eyes and thinking "you look ridiculous and you should feel embarrassed" (though their performance will be sufficient for that).

 

[RoosTah]

I hadn't realised that White doesn't clash with White?

We've always worn our change kit vs Argentina

Like this time you mean? :



Seriously, I don't know why you're defending it. It looks ridiculous; the entire thing is so contrived and unnecessary that it's actually funny. There are some kiwis who are genuinely mad, but most of the rest of us are simply bemused at how obvious it all is.

 

[Sixesandsevens]

They nearly always have worn an away kit vs Argentina to be fair. Pluses for me were Youngs, Haskell and Lawes performance, along with the impact made by Hartley and Stevens. On Wilkinson I thought his all round game was pretty good, but I have never seen him kick like that, I wonder what was going on.

 

[j-dawg]

I think alot of people are calling for Hartley and Stevens to start now. Thompson is still better than Hartley, especially in the scrum. Just remember he had to deal with the Argentinian front row all game before Hartley arrived to take advantage of what was probably a very tired pack.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, I'd still have Wally over Hartley, but I'd have Stevens over Sheridan in my first choice front row

 

[superhans121]

One bad game doesn't make a player crap, or **** or dire or anything else. It was a bad performance. If I had been dropped for every bad performance I've given...well I would never have been dropped at all (sarcasm). Wilko can guide us through. He's done it before and we trust him. Argentina were majorly up for this game as the underdogs punching above their weight, they RELISH that.

Turning point for me was Youngs coming on.

Wilkinson is in the team for his goal kicking and defence. End of. He has had two very poor games in row now and has utterly failed to get our back line moving. As an attacking, ball playing 10, Toby Flood is in a different League. We will not even challenge for this world cup playing the sort of turgid, negative rugby we saw on display this morning - quite simply our forwards are not good enough and our "prized asset" can't hit a barn door. However, if we reproduce the display that saw us demolish Australia in the Autumn - intelligent, fast-paced rugby orchestrated by Flood - we may just have a chance.

 

[Groundhog]

I love how the itv commentators talked about martin johnsons calmness before the match dspite the fact camera cuts to him shouting f*uck at least three times a game

 

[j-dawg]

Wilkinson is in the team for his goal kicking and defence. End of. He has had two very poor games in row now and has utterly failed to get our back line moving. As an attacking, ball playing 10, Toby Flood is in a different League. We will not even challenge for this world cup playing the sort of turgid, negative rugby we saw on display this morning - quite simply our forwards are not good enough and our "prized asset" can't hit a barn door. However, if we reproduce the display that saw us demolish Australia in the Autumn - intelligent, fast-paced rugby orchestrated by Flood - we may just have a chance.

Wheras Floods last two games - to remind you, a loss to Ireland and a loss to Wales - were at the pinnacle of fly half evolution.