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RWC: All Blacks - Canada (02-10-2011, 15:30)

Kaino Monstered the canadians today, absolute BEAST. How about Ben Franks nice to meet you shoulder bump?

Kaino monsters everyone. I mean everyone.
He's hiding in your closet right now waiting to shoulder charge you the second you aren't looking.

Evans made a very poor tackle attempt on the Franks one and really 260lbs vs 180lbs, I expect Franks to win.

Now the hit of the match was Kleeberger vs Woodcock. Hit him so hard that the massive prop was completely horizontal and just dropped the ball. Massive hit.
 
Anyone got a site for game stats? I mean individual ones like tackles, running metres and such.
 
Now the hit of the match was Kleeberger vs Woodcock. Hit him so hard that the massive prop was completely horizontal and just dropped the ball. Massive hit.
Go look at it again - it was a head clash. Both players momentarily blacked out hence Woodcock dropping the ball and Kleeberger going face first into the dirt. It was powerful and it was brave - props to the boy.

Worried about possible Woodcock concussion from that clash. He was massive today and can't wait to see him in top form in the semi-final. (Yeah I know, there is another appointment before then but we will win that 99.9% guaranteed)
 
Go look at it again - it was a head clash. Both players momentarily blacked out hence Woodcock dropping the ball and Kleeberger going face first into the dirt. It was powerful and it was brave - props to the boy.

Worried about possible Woodcock concussion from that clash. He was massive today and can't wait to see him in top form in the semi-final. (Yeah I know, there is another appointment before then but we will win that 99.9% guaranteed)

Oh ya that was a head clash, but Woodcock was horizontal. Very powerful hit, hope both are ok. Argentina should be a good challenge but they just don;t have the attacking backline to be a huge threat.
 
Watched the game at the stadium and I have to say, I'm really worried about our chances.

All this talk about Dan Carter only being one player is pretty misleading. He's the most important cog in our most potent weapon.

People justify Slade being nervous, and they're absolutely right to say that under the pressure he is under, it was always going to be the case, but the point is this; there is no way the pressure is going to lesson going into the knock out stages of a rugby world cup and frankly Slade looks scared sh*tless. Put in Weepu and try Cruden, it's no longer about building depth, that's been ****'d up, now it's about limiting the damage of missing Carter. Right now I'd kill for someone like David Hill or even Tony Brown to be in the All Blacks, just to play a very streight and accurate 1st 5/8th role with nothing fancy. Moments of class are not worth consistant errors.
 
Watched the game at the stadium and I have to say, I'm really worried about our chances.

All this talk about Dan Carter only being one player is pretty misleading. He's the most important cog in our most potent weapon.

People justify Slade being nervous, and they're absolutely right to say that under the pressure he is under, it was always going to be the case, but the point is this; there is no way the pressure is going to lesson going into the knock out stages of a rugby world cup and frankly Slade looks scared sh*tless. Put in Weepu and try Cruden, it's no longer about building depth, that's been ****'d up, now it's about limiting the damage of missing Carter. Right now I'd kill for someone like David Hill or even Tony Brown to be in the All Blacks, just to play a very streight and accurate 1st 5/8th role with nothing fancy. Moments of class are not worth consistant errors.

I'm with you on that. When he played in South Africa, then against Tonga and Canada in the pool he made far too many mistakes. I expected a progression, an improvement the more he played, but I'm not seeing it. Or what improvement I am seeing is not coming anywhere near fast enough for me to be confident of beating South Africa in the semis. (I would be more confident against Australia).

World Cups are won by defence and accuracy. His accuracy is nowhere near where it needs to be (and I'm not even talking about goalkicking) and I don't think we will get past the semis unless he improves big time.

However, he's our guy now and it's up to him to do the job. All we can do is support him, enjoy the ride and hope for the best.
 
Weepu could start at halfback with Slade at 10 and Weepu could do the goal kicking.
 
Of course, so did Guildford, the reason they can break the line lots and score a heap of tries is because of a quality forward pack dominating with Nonu and Smith setting up the space. I seem to remember Kahui doing nothing against France. What are you talking about with Dagg looking threatening? He scored one try which was set up by Guildford and apart from that did nothing. Mils scored a try and set up two others plus was solid on defense unlike Dagg who I seem to remember getting his hands in a fair few amount of rucks, dropping the ball and poor positional play on defense which Mils had to come over and cover.

I thought kahui was very good against France before he was injured, better game than some that did score. Actually he would have scored too if Thompson hadn't gone out and basically stood right in front of Kahui on the left wing instead of actually doing his job. Nice runs and pretty much error free, solid under the ball and he did make one superb tackle which resulted in a turnover. Though I agree it wasn't a great performance from Dagg, though he did pretty damn well in scoring his try going inside and outside Guildford. Mills had a good game and importantly a couple of times he showed a lot of speed and proved that all this talk about him losing his speed is rubish.

Really hard to rate players in games like this... Bit messy at times and canada's defense wasn't flash.
 
good game overall by the All Blacks, went through a rough patch just before and after Half time but were very good at the start and end of the game. 12 trys is an impressive haul they will be disappointed with the fact they let in two trys. The first Canada scored was very impressive, something Canada should be proud of, totally Legit try with the run of play (better than anything France produced against the AB's) Slick back line move using numbers to create a 1 on 1 close to the line Mills tackled the guy well but couldn't prevent the touchdown.

-ve aspects of the game in my view:

1st/worst by far was Jimmy Cowan. I expected him to have a big game but he did the complete opposite. his passing and clearance in general was pretty bad, well worse than pretty bad. The worse thing is that because of that it's hard to judge Slade's performance because of cowan's poor performance... I'm Honestly pretty ****** off with Jimmy. He's maintained his place in the squad because of a few blinder performances he's had for the All Blacks - like one or two each year since 2008 but often his clearance has been slow, more often that not he's been average at best. The Coaches have invested so much time and experience in him and when it comes time to pay back the faith he's simply not delivering. Leonard, Mathewson or even Aaron smith would do a much better job than Cowan is doing now. The horid thing is we could have dropped Cowan and persisted with someone like Leonard who was back to his best form this year, Mathewson though he's not the best defender or kicker he passes well and he's a genuine threat as a running halfback or Selected Kahn Fotuali'i who has proved to be brilliant for Samoa or selected Aaron Smith or Barlow who are both brilliant young halfbacks both I think future all blacks.

I don't know what to do, maybe play him in a southland jersey so he actually plays with some passion and grit. You would think Cowan would play better in a big game but to select him now would have to be seen as a gamble... The worst thing is that because Jimmy is so rubbish it elevates Elis within the squad, though Elis is clearing well he's a powderpuf on defense, he's tiny and not very physical compared to Cowan and he's still slow at clearing, the way Elis operates he pucks the ball up and pauses before passing which creates slow ball for the players outside him and even though he's got 23 odd tests to his name Elis has never performed or proved himself in an important game for the AB's.

kickoff's - Not something you can blame on a single player but needs to be addressed. They were poor and it's the one area of the game Canada clearly won against the AB's. You can bet your arse they will be doing a lot of kickoff practice this week...

Next -ve i think was slade. he had some early problems, a kick charged down and a couple bad decisions. He improved but his kicking for goal didn't 4 from 8 is not good. Kicked one from the sideline but you could forgive him for missing that. Not so great are the 2-3 he missed from handy range. Not a terrible game but not a good enough game to secure his position or stamp his mark on the #10 spot and ease the worried NZ public. If he had got 6/8 he would have got a pass mark.

The Good :)

Weepu looked much more secure at 10 and seemed to get noticeably better as the game went on. He's actually looking very trim and fit too. I'd like to see him more involved in games. Maybe playing 80min and being the main goal kicker. Someone needs to fill Dan's boots and maybe it's better to have an experienced big game player than a test rookie to do that. The big problem in using weepu at 10 is that he's our best 9, best by some margin IMO.

Kaino - man of the match, not often someone who scores 4 trys doesn't make man of the match the same game but Kaino did get two himself and he was pretty awesome everywhere. Even off the back of the scrum where he's obviously a better option than McCaw or Thomson. Superb, he's not one of the most important men on the park and the All Blacks most consistent player and should quite happily sit along side McCaw in that regard. Bi early to be talking about IRB players of the year but if he can continue this form for a few more games and the AB's win the cup Kaino will be a shoe in for that ***le.

Guildford - well he did score 4 trys and they were impressive. All were the result of superior speed, Ian Smith does love his Hawkes Bay boys but it's true Guildford produced speed Canada couldn't match. Importantly he nailed a couple of high balls - one in particular which was under a lot of pressure.

SBW - bretty big game again on a day conrad smith was pretty quiet (sure he's saving it for the big games :) ) cut through the Canada defense. not just with physical power but with the speed and step a < 90kg playwe would be proud of. SBW is clearly growing in this squad, would be interesting to see what impact that has on the starting lineup - so far you would have to say he's at least got the 22 jersey, if not more...

The scrum, I'm not sure how well Canada's scrum measured up to the other teams but it's hard to remember a more dominant scrum performance. There was the one scrum where the AB's hit was so huge canada's front row left the ground with there feet and the push over try - I can't remember the last time I saw a push over try like that, brilliant. I think a big factor in that pushover was with the AB's having 4 locks in the scrum and in particular a fresh Thorn and Boric pushing behind the props. But Williams and Whitelock on the sides and Kaino on the back... The pack weight at the start of the game was over about 905kg but at that point it would have been even bigger. Maybe even 930kg? I've said it before, I really like the 4 locks thing the AB's are doing. And all the locks are in form. Boric in particular was pretty damn good in the line out when he came on. I think Boric should be involved more but it's hard when Thorn is so established and Whitelock and Williams are both looking in good form too. But why not have them all involved? I'd pick Boric or Williams on the bench over Thomson anyday...

Vito - quick note on Vito only that he did an ok job at 7 and was better than Thomson has been so far this year... I still think Thomson should have been dropped after the springboks test not Messam. Messam did nothing wrong when there were serious questions over Thomson's game - it still doesn't make sense.

Hore - I'm going to say it again, Hore needs to start for the AB's - he's coming up with turnovers and the interesting thing is that the All Blacks seem to always score trys off Hores turnovers when he makes them.

Good to see Mills back, good performance, made one mistake - the knock on when squashing a canada kick through/breakout but he at least he did squash it. A couple of powerful traddemark pushes in close and also showed good speed out wide to silence a few critics. I can't help but feel Mills has become more imprtant now Dan Carter is injured. Dan's ability is lost but so is his experience, what better to bring in than a man with 99 caps... Kahui is sure to come back, maybe he should go on to the right wing since he's good on either side and dagg goes to the left side where he looks a bit better and Mills at 15 to add a lot of experience.

Good to see Read back though he looked far off his best. Though he is a bag game player and he will be better in another week.

Good thing is the AB's have one more game to find their feet. All due respect to Argentina but they dont look in great touch and they were lucky to beat scotland. I think Argi may be the weakest team in the quaters. The All Blacks will take the game seriously, they have to but I dont see Argi as a serious threat.
 
Agee with most of that Larksea. And I have to admit I think you've been right about Leonard all along I think, we clearly need someone with a bit of zip. Cowan is so slow, not only at clearing the ball but when he is running. I was at the game, it looked like he was in slow motion when he scored that try he got mowed down so quickly, Leonard would've been under the bins untouched. Ellis clears quickly but is too weak in defense and doesn't threaten with a running game. Now we don't have DC we need a halfback to do more than Ellis offers. Leonard/Weepu would be a good combo at 9/10.

Slade isn't up to it, his goal kicking is so erratic. Never have faith in a guy who misses easy ones by miles then slots them from the sideline. All the people who said composure was his strength, well that's out the window now he clearly can't cope even on the back of a monstrous effort up front.

Forwards were good apart from Ali Williams. He is the weakest ball runner since Eaton was in the AB's. Loses ground all the time, and he dropped the pill a couple of times. Boric looks better to me and is who I would pick.

Solid game from Mils, had some really nice touches. Wouldn't be enough to unseat Dagg though you wouldn't think, although I would much rather him on the bench than Toeava. SBW, Mils and the spare halfback on the bench would be a decent idea if they go for a 4/3 split.

Would love to see Cruden on the bench in the next game and see him have a run, can't be any worse than Slade, although it's probably too late for that now. I imagine he is purely injury cove rin case Weepu or Slade go down. They've come too far with Slade and I don't think they'll be ruthless enough to cut their losses at this point.
 
For those wondering Adam Kleeberger posted on twitter that he is fine after that brutal collision last night, his CT scan showed no signs of any damage and he is returning to Canada.
 
For those wondering Adam Kleeberger posted on twitter that he is fine after that brutal collision last night, his CT scan showed no signs of any damage and he is returning to Canada.
Good news for him :)


Woodcock, however, is still in surgery having bits of beard removed from his skull
 
Agee with most of that Larksea. And I have to admit I think you've been right about Leonard all along I think, we clearly need someone with a bit of zip. Cowan is so slow, not only at clearing the ball but when he is running. I was at the game, it looked like he was in slow motion when he scored that try he got mowed down so quickly, Leonard would've been under the bins untouched. Ellis clears quickly but is too weak in defense and doesn't threaten with a running game. Now we don't have DC we need a halfback to do more than Ellis offers. Leonard/Weepu would be a good combo at 9/10.

Slade isn't up to it, his goal kicking is so erratic. Never have faith in a guy who misses easy ones by miles then slots them from the sideline. All the people who said composure was his strength, well that's out the window now he clearly can't cope even on the back of a monstrous effort up front.

Forwards were good apart from Ali Williams. He is the weakest ball runner since Eaton was in the AB's. Loses ground all the time, and he dropped the pill a couple of times. Boric looks better to me and is who I would pick.

Solid game from Mils, had some really nice touches. Wouldn't be enough to unseat Dagg though you wouldn't think, although I would much rather him on the bench than Toeava. SBW, Mils and the spare halfback on the bench would be a decent idea if they go for a 4/3 split.

Would love to see Cruden on the bench in the next game and see him have a run, can't be any worse than Slade, although it's probably too late for that now. I imagine he is purely injury cove rin case Weepu or Slade go down. They've come too far with Slade and I don't think they'll be ruthless enough to cut their losses at this point.

well I'm glad someone sees eye to eye with me about Leonard, and also to add to that argument is the fact Leonard is one of if not the best kicking 9 in New Zealand - which would take a lot of pressure off an inexperienced 10... Honestly I think behind Leonard Would be Aaron Smith. Importantly the key ingredient needed is a halfback that knows that when the Forwards get fast ball his job is to make sure that the players outside him get that extra time to use to their advantage and that the time created by the forwards is not for him to use up deciding what to do with it when the ball is in his hands.

Though I think right now Ali Williams is the best ball carrying lock we have, maybe neck and neck with Boric... Brad thorn is a powerhouse but he's very slow these days and doesn't make himself available as a ball carrier at all. He can go 80min and only carry 1-2 times and not that well when he does. Whitelock can be very busy as a runner but hardly ever makes much ground or is lucky to get to the advantage line at all. Ali is carrying well. The french game he came on and made a few good runs, two in particular which were from slow static ball and he took the ball to, through and over the advantage line. And I don't think his hands were an issue against Canada. He made one knock on and it was a shocking pass from Cowan so shouldn't go against Ali.

Honestly I hate myself for saying it but I think Brad thorn is the weakest link right now as far as the locks go. I thought Whitelock was dragging the chain a few weeks ago but he's lifted his game recently and was impressive against France. It is hard to quantify the work Thorn does do in the scrums but however much it is I don't believe it makes up for the lack of achievement around the park. He's even behind the props in terms of tackles, breakdown arrivals and all round workrate and as I said the worst part is that his ball carrying has almost dried up to nothing. A couple years ago it was a trademark of thorn's game to see Him hit the ball up in mid field and try and put some backs out of their comfort zone. But this year he just doesn't seem to want the ball in his hands. If he was making 15 tackles a game and among the first to the breakdown 25 times a game and taking 3-5 line out takes a game it wouldn't matter but its more like 7 tackles a game, 18-19 breakdown arrivals a game and 1 lineout take a game and non-existent stats as a ball carrier . I know stats don't draw the whole picture but you would think if a player is doing their job in the team well they would impress in at least one area of the stats - it's not happening.
 
My take on the game.. Poor performance from Slade, it was his time to step up and he just didn't. We are going to be in alot of trouble if the coaches settle with him. But at the same time, I guess I'm being harsh because I'm used to having the best no.10 in the world playing and I should realise, Slade is never going to be a DC. With that said, I'd really like to see Cruden get next weeks start, he needs it, and since his run against Aus last year, his confidence has peaked and he is one of the best kickers in NZ. I think he had a better strike rate than Carter did this year. Guildford had a strong game, but he can't do those kind of things against tough opposition and to give him a spot over Kahui or Jane because of this performance over Canada would be an injustice. SBW didn't do as well as I thought he would have so Nonu is still[and probably will always be] the incumbent. Smith had a poor game considering his standards and Mils did nothing to reclaim his jersey so I'd say it now belongs to Dagg. Vito proved why he should be there ahead of Thomson and Kaino is just immense.
 
^^ Yeah Leonard's kicking is really good.

i don't know about Ali, maybe I'm watching him with negative blinkers on. He dropped that one off a poor pass and also went to throw a pass another time and just shelled it. He definitely went backwards two or three times carrying. Like you say though he did go well against France.

Those issues are kind of minor in comparison to the issues we now have at 10. I'm almost inclined to think we go England/SA and just beat teams up front. With Kaino and Read carrying, McCaw causing problems at the breakdown we can win games with the forwards. As long as our scrum and lineout function we could do it. Trying to make whoever is at 10 play the gameplan we have with Carter has a high chance of failure cause none can do it like DC can. We should simplify and just get Slade to send up bombs or shovel to Nonu. Our backs are good on defence and we can obviously punish teams on the counter. Come on Henry lets get negative.
 
I think Canada helped us expose some of our weaknesses and so now we'll be able to adjust hopefully. Some players expected to step up like Slade did exactly the opposite and played like crap. I was a bit of a fan of his to be the All Blacks 1st/5 if Carter got injured but now he's letting us down. I guess the only one we have left is Cruden but his kicking sucks especially his clearing kicks but with ball in hand he can do some pretty amazing things and at least he's a specialist 1st/5.

Back to this game I think Guildford answered all his critics even thou it might have been against Canada. His 4 trys and his unselfish play setting up Muliaina for a try showed maturity and I reckon he deserves his spot in the team for sure.

Kaino impressed me too, 2 trys and some crunching hits that made the opposition look out for him where ever they were on the field.

Overall a good performance from the All Blacks, they didn't really fire on all cylinders but good effort
 
I think Canada helped us expose some of our weaknesses and so now we'll be able to adjust hopefully. Some players expected to step up like Slade did exactly the opposite and played like crap. I was a bit of a fan of his to be the All Blacks 1st/5 if Carter got injured but now he's letting us down. I guess the only one we have left is Cruden but his kicking sucks especially his clearing kicks but with ball in hand he can do some pretty amazing things and at least he's a specialist 1st/5.

Back to this game I think Guildford answered all his critics even thou it might have been against Canada. His 4 trys and his unselfish play setting up Muliaina for a try showed maturity and I reckon he deserves his spot in the team for sure.

Kaino impressed me too, 2 trys and some crunching hits that made the opposition look out for him where ever they were on the field.

Overall a good performance from the All Blacks, they didn't really fire on all cylinders but good effort

Really?.. Even though his strike rate has improved immensely and Slade didn't show very much territory gaining kicks against Canada, So, to give that to Slade is poor. Cruden can do more with ball in hand than Slade, shown throughout the Super Rugby competition and the ITM Cup. I know this is different as it is a bigger stage, but I feel Cruden has a ton of confidence in him because he's the underdog, he NEEDS to play.
 
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