RWC: All Blacks - Canada (02-10-2011, 15:30)

[ranger]

Not sold on Leonard.. He looks like a great individual, but i don't think he does much to raise the teams performance as a whole. Hes great at picking gaps for himself for instance, but the Weepu style of finding gaps for other players is relatively foreign to him. His kicking game is great too, but Weepu and Cowan are all there or there abouts with the boot aswell. He probably should have got in over Andy Ellis, but i don't think hes too great of a loss.

On Cowan, he still has his place in the side and its going to be vital. His leadership and direction of the forwards is great, his defence and cover tackling is the best in the world. He runs good support lines and is strong enough to take the ball into contact and to hold the ball up. He lacks speed both in the legs and in the pass, so he isnt perfect, but he would be my pick to start at 9.

Another thing people may overlook is that the very reason most people hate Cowan is the same reason that he needs to be the AB halfback; hes a cocky dick. With all the public expectation and all this choking talk, the All Blacks need guys that wont get nervous in the 9-10 roles. Cowan has arrogance where his nerves should be. Having his demeanour in the link between backs and forwards should prove vital in the higher pressure games.

For the same reasons, Weepu has to start at 10. A Cowan-Weepu axis would feel zero pressure. Whoever can control the tempo controls the game and i believe Cowan and Weepu are capable of that. Throw in Israel Dagg at the back to come into first reciever on occasion like he did for the Highlanders and the First-five problem doesnt seem so dire.

 

[james5000]

Colin Slade is now the go to man, like it or not. We have to hope he can improve next week and hopefully the week after.
Henry is caught between a rock and a hard place, putting Cruden in would be a sign of weakness for him.

I know a lot of us (including me) would have liked to have seen Cruden in there from the start, but it didn't happen and now Slade is the only logical choice.

Slade needs to calm down and not get caught in the moment and think before he makes decisions on the field. It's been said that great players seem to have all the time in the world, and at the moment Slade doesn't appear to have this quality.

Hopefully he can get over the nerves he seems to have at the moment and play some Rugby that the selectors think he's capable of.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I think Canada helped us expose some of our weaknesses and so now we'll be able to adjust hopefully. Some players expected to step up like Slade did exactly the opposite and played like crap. I was a bit of a fan of his to be the All Blacks 1st/5 if Carter got injured but now he's letting us down. I guess the only one we have left is Cruden but his kicking sucks especially his clearing kicks but with ball in hand he can do some pretty amazing things and at least he's a specialist 1st/5.

Back to this game I think Guildford answered all his critics even thou it might have been against Canada. His 4 trys and his unselfish play setting up Muliaina for a try showed maturity and I reckon he deserves his spot in the team for sure.

Kaino impressed me too, 2 trys and some crunching hits that made the opposition look out for him where ever they were on the field.

Overall a good performance from the All Blacks, they didn't really fire on all cylinders but good effort

Didn't watch any ITM cup then? His clearing kicking was great all season. Although I think it's too late for him to be involved now.

Funny how when Slade was picked it the main reasons seemed to be his kicking and composure; both of which have been proven liabilities for him. Ah well I'm right behind him now and hope he just plays within his own capabilities and doesn't try to be DC. He can just shovel and kick like Morne Steyn, let Weepu do the goal kicking and play making from 9.

 

[jawmalawm24]

Didn't watch any ITM cup then? His clearing kicking was great all season. Although I think it's too late for him to be involved now.

Funny how when Slade was picked it the main reasons seemed to be his kicking and composure; both of which have been proven liabilities for him. Ah well I'm right behind him now and hope he just plays within his own capabilities and doesn't try to be DC. He can just shovel and kick like Morne Steyn, let Weepu do the goal kicking and play making from 9.

That might have been in ITM but international level he's made alot of kicks that either didn't go out or only make it 20-25m down the field. He just needs a bit more power in his legs and just a bit more size on defence because he gets bumped off alot. Every other aspect of is game thou is awesome especially his running game, I just hope he can produce some magic for the All Blacks like he does for Manawatu, than the opposition team will be in for some trouble

 

[ranger]

Slade looks like a kid who was killing it in the under 15s and has been thrown into first XV level. Deer in the headlights. He has never had to deal with pressure before but he got selected due to benefit of the doubt. He has put up two sketchy performances against minnow teams and its fair to that he can't handle the jandal when the onus is on him. Just get him out of there before he chokes.

 

[donmcdazzle]

For the same reasons, Weepu has to start at 10. A Cowan-Weepu axis would feel zero pressure. Whoever can control the tempo controls the game and i believe Cowan and Weepu are capable of that. Throw in Israel Dagg at the back to come into first reciever on occasion like he did for the Highlanders and the First-five problem doesnt seem so dire.

That's actually a pretty compelling point..

 

[Dizzy]

That might have been in ITM but international level he's made alot of kicks that either didn't go out or only make it 20-25m down the field. He just needs a bit more power in his legs and just a bit more size on defence because he gets bumped off alot. Every other aspect of is game thou is awesome especially his running game, I just hope he can produce some magic for the All Blacks like he does for Manawatu, than the opposition team will be in for some trouble

Dude, have you even seen Cruden play?.. He's a very strong defender. Seriously bro.

 

[donmcdazzle]

That might have been in ITM but international level he's made alot of kicks that either didn't go out or only make it 20-25m down the field. He just needs a bit more power in his legs and just a bit more size on defence because he gets bumped off alot. Every other aspect of is game thou is awesome especially his running game, I just hope he can produce some magic for the All Blacks like he does for Manawatu, than the opposition team will be in for some trouble

He hasn't played international rugby since last year. And he was given that as a work-on. Bit harsh to judge him on last year when he has clearly improved that aspect.

And no he doesn't get bumped off very often. He is small but can tackle very well. Not exactly a strength of his but he doesn't miss many.

 

[Dizzy]

He hasn't played international rugby since last year. And he was given that as a work-on. Bit harsh to judge him on last year when he has clearly improved that aspect.

And no he doesn't get bumped off very often. He is small but can tackle very well. Not exactly a strength of his but he doesn't miss any.

Fixed

 

[Larksea]

yeah Cruden's kicking has improved a huge amount, Comparing his kicking even last year to this years ITM cup is like night and day. He was at best a 50/50 kicker at goal this year he was more like 80%, not just goal kicking though but also his kicking around the field has seem a big improvement in the length he can get.

I thought his kicking stats for super rugby were a big flattering because all his shots seemed to be from in front and Kirkpatrick seemed to get all the tough ones. But as the ITM cup went on it seemed that yes in fact he had made a measurable improvement.

But it's all moot, I thought Slade had made a similar improvement in his kicking game. We didn't see it so much this year because of injuries but the ITM cup prior to that he was kicking very well and had impressive technique.

The hardest thing for NZ i simply that anyone else is not Dan Carter. We already saw it with Donald, Donald was never as bad as the NZ public made him out to be and overall he prob did better than Slade has done so far yet the NZ public never gave him a chance because he wasn't Dan Carter. At the very least Donald put easy teams away and kicked about 75% at goal for the AB's, was rock solid on defense and he even helped win some big matches for the AB's but his good days were forgotten or seen as still not as good as Dan Carter and he was crucified for every mistake he made.

I can already kinda sense the same thing happening with Slade.

New Zealand create sooo much pressure on their players. I think that's the main reason Nick Evans left NZ for good and it's the same reason people like David Smith and Henry Speight who struggled in NZ then went to Aussie and became maybe the best players in their Aussie Super15 teams. And it's the same reason Donald, Slade and Cruden have all struggled to play to their potential for the All Blacks.

 

[cardassian]

I think people are being overly critical of Slade's performance.
Sure he's no Dan Carter but nobody is.
Also it's hard to shine at 10 when your half back constantly makes terrible passes.
Notice how Weepu only looked good once Cowan was off.
Also if we play Weepu at 10 that means Cowan has to be one of our 9s and he's guaranteed at least 30 mins of terrible ball.
I'd play Weepu at 9 and give him the kicking duties, give Slade ago at 10 with Cruden on the bench and use either Mils or Dagg for kicking when inside our own 20.
Our 10 only needs to shovel the ball to Nonu and as long as our forwards turn up we'll be right.

 

[james5000]

I think people are being overly critical of Slade's performance.
Sure he's no Dan Carter but nobody is.
Also it's hard to shine at 10 when your half back constantly makes terrible passes.
Notice how Weepu only looked good once Cowan was off.
Also if we play Weepu at 10 that means Cowan has to be one of our 9s and he's guaranteed at least 30 mins of terrible ball.
I'd play Weepu at 9 and give him the kicking duties, give Slade ago at 10 with Cruden on the bench and use either Mils or Dagg for kicking when inside our own 20.
Our 10 only needs to shovel the ball to Nonu and as long as our forwards turn up we'll be right.

This is basically what i am thinking at the moment

 

[ranger]

I think people are being overly critical of Slade's performance.
Sure he's no Dan Carter but nobody is.
Also it's hard to shine at 10 when your half back constantly makes terrible passes.
Notice how Weepu only looked good once Cowan was off.
Also if we play Weepu at 10 that means Cowan has to be one of our 9s and he's guaranteed at least 30 mins of terrible ball.
I'd play Weepu at 9 and give him the kicking duties, give Slade ago at 10 with Cruden on the bench and use either Mils or Dagg for kicking when inside our own 20.
Our 10 only needs to shovel the ball to Nonu and as long as our forwards turn up we'll be right.

No i didnt notice that actually..

 

[james5000]

I didn't think that Weepu looked any better than Slade, but Cowan was very average yesterday, any one can admit to that.
Cowan would be the first to tell you I am sure.

Some of his passing was the worst i have ever seen in an All Blacks jersey, including props.

 

[nik]

This is basically what i am thinking at the moment

Same here. Slade actually has a good running game, he can spot half gaps and beat the defender with his pace. he lacks a kicking game. when playing along side cowan it is very evident because cowan has no kicking game. slade has never played with weepu so I think they can share the kicking responsibilities. Weepu can take care of the goal kicking. IMO let Slade focus on general field play.

 

[LittleGuy]

Good news for him


Woodcock, however, is still in surgery having bits of beard removed from his skull

Oh you

you actaully had me as a nervous wreck when I caught Woodcock still in surgery...but than the rest of the post was an elation.

Sadly Kleeberger will be removing the beard, although he has suggested a charitable cause to donate to.

 

[Larksea]

The more I think about it the more I think Weepu is the key, but not necessarily playing at 10. The more he is on the field the easier it will be for who ever is playing 10. Maybe in the big games he should start and play for as long as needed, even 80min if it's tight - he's looking fit and very trim.

Another key with carter out is to have other players coming in to act as first receiver. We've already seen Kahui do it a lot, in fact he has a lot of experience playing 10 in his early days I think it comes down to Kahui, Dagg, Mills and Nonu to come in and maybe share at least 50% of slades workload as first receiver. IT will take heat off slade and maybe give him the time he needs to find his feet and get into the game, get the confidence he needs. I know with carter so often you see him first receiver play after play after play. It's too much to ask a stand in to do the same.

I also think bringing mills back into the starting 15 is important, you take Dan carters 86 tests of experience out of the backline and it starts to look very thin in that area. Bad News for Jane but 15, Mills. 14, Kahui. 11, Dagg would be a good idea. Kahui is a must have now and Dagg is the xfactor player he just seems bound to create a try or two every game, Jane - good but not so much.


edit: bad news for jane not dagg

 

[William18]

Really?

The All Blacks missed a total of.... 2 tackles, one by Kaino, and one by SBW

Conrad Smith made 4 tackles and missed ZERO

If you are talking about YOUR man Smith, he made 16 tackles and missed just 2 (87.5%)

Your whole team missed 27 out of 101 tackles (78%)

So I think you are being too hard on both Smiths.


If we play like this in the playoffs, we might get past Argentina, but Australia or South Africa will slaughter us.

Where are your stats from? I swear I saw him miss a tackle even though I thought he played well. I have never found a rugby statistics website to be at all reliable.

 

[LittleGuy]

Where are your stats from? I swear I saw him miss a tackle even though I thought he played well. I have never found a rugby statistics website to be at all reliable.

I thought OUR Man Smith had a really good game excpet for one brutally missed tackle whcih resulted in an AB's try. I think he really surprised the Canadian rugby public with a fantastic RWC.

 

[nik]

The more I think about it the more I think Weepu is the key, but not necessarily playing at 10. The more he is on the field the easier it will be for who ever is playing 10. Maybe in the big games he should start and play for as long as needed, even 80min if it's tight - he's looking fit and very trim.

Another key with carter out is to have other players coming in to act as first receiver. We've already seen Kahui do it a lot, in fact he has a lot of experience playing 10 in his early days I think it comes down to Kahui, Dagg, Mills and Nonu to come in and maybe share at least 50% of slades workload as first receiver. IT will take heat off slade and maybe give him the time he needs to find his feet and get into the game, get the confidence he needs. I know with carter so often you see him first receiver play after play after play. It's too much to ask a stand in to do the same.

I also think bringing mills back into the starting 15 is important, you take Dan carters 86 tests of experience out of the backline and it starts to look very thin in that area. Bad News for Dagg but 15, Mills. 14, Kahui. 11, Dagg would be a good idea. Kahui is a must have now and Dagg is the xfactor player he just seems bound to create a try or two every game, Jane - good but not so much.

Well thats it. Duties have to be shared. Carter is world class, he makes players inside and outside him look awesome. Cowan is looks crap when not playing along side Carter. NZ will continue to play an exciting brand of rugby and if things dont look good they will keep it tight with the forwards. The key is to know when to change tact.