Rugby Championship: New Zealand - Argentina (08/09/2012)

[Kiwiwomble]

a case of the wellington boys getting a run, seems popular for local All Blacks to get a run when the team plays on their home ground.

Wonder if Ben Smith/Thomson/Ellison will get a start next weekend. More likely a top team will be selected with it being a springbok test. If the All Blacks win this weekend then the next game against the springboks could be enough to secure the championship?

would rather they started for otago

 

[admartian]

Just no to Thomson starting for the ABs.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7625156/Dan-Carter-out-of-test-Barrett-into-All-Blacks

Carter out, Cruden in at 10 with Barrett probably coming onto the bench.

 

[Darwin]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7625156/Dan-Carter-out-of-test-Barrett-into-All-Blacks

Carter out, Cruden in at 10 with Barrett probably coming onto the bench.

I knew donmcdazzle was pretty ****** off that Cruden wasn't getting a start, but I didn't think he would go and take out Dan Carter!

Though it is always disappointing to see someone ruled out with injury (especially a star like Carter), I can't help but get excited at the thought of Cruden starting at 10 for the AB's!

 

[donmcdazzle]

I knew donmcdazzle was pretty ****** off that Cruden wasn't getting a start, but I didn't think he would go and take out Dan Carter!

Yeah sneaky shot at his calf as he exited the hotel. In all seriousness you never want someone to get injured but this is a decent scenario (as long as DC's injury is only a minor thing). Cruden had to be given a shot at starting with the A line up at some point and this game is the most suitable one to do it in.

 

[Darwin]

Yeah sneaky shot at his calf as he exited the hotel. In all seriousness you never want someone to get injured but this is a decent scenario (as long as DC's injury is only a minor thing). Cruden had to be given a shot at starting with the A line up at some point and this game is the most suitable one to do it in.

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't take a sneaky shot at Dagg's calf too, as that would have given that Ben Smith fella a chance to start (and I understand he is really good). Oh well, I may just have to do that myself when they come down to Dunedin next week

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yep, as long as it's a minor injury I more than happy with this 'development'.

 

[Larksea]

well you now have the reason why Cruden was not released to ITM cup. I thought as much.

 

[admartian]

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't take a sneaky shot at Dagg's calf too, as that would have given that Ben Smith fella a chance to start (and I understand he is really good). Oh well, I may just have to do that myself when they come down to Dunedin next week

Who?

:huh:

Yep, as long as it's a minor injury I more than happy with this 'development'.

lol yeah - I'm sure this is gamesmanship on Hansen's part.

Ever since the Trinations and RWC last year, Henry and co have been going the 'injury' route to play players without getting criticised for their decisions.

 

[Dizzy]

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't take a sneaky shot at Dagg's calf too, as that would have given that Ben Smith fella a chance to start (and I understand he is really good). Oh well, I may just have to do that myself when they come down to Dunedin next week

Hahahahaha you crack me up Darwin...

 

[donmcdazzle]

Who?

:huh:

lol yeah - I'm sure this is gamesmanship on Hansen's part.

Ever since the Trinations and RWC last year, Henry and co have been going the 'injury' route to play players without getting criticised for their decisions.

He tweeted a photo of himself in a compression sock thing, I'm sure he has a legitmate ****le. If it was the world cup final I'm sure he could play but the coaches probably thought why risk it, may as well give him a rest. Seems like a stretch that it is a big conspiracy to cover up rotation.

 

[admartian]

He tweeted a photo of himself in a compression sock thing, I'm sure he has a legitmate ****le. If it was the world cup final I'm sure he could play but the coaches probably thought why risk it, may as well give him a rest. Seems like a stretch that it is a big conspiracy to cover up rotation.

Not saying it's a fake injury.

I actually think the same as you - had this been a do or die game, then yeah, he'd be played for sure.

 

[drif73r]

For our Argentine members who may not have had access to this, Frankie Deges is interviewed on the subject of Argentina Rugby by Tony Johnson of "ReUnion"

I hadn't seen it, so thanks for sharing it.

...

It's always a shame when a class player like Dan Carter gets injured, though it doesn't seem too serious, fortunately. I hope he'll recover soon. It'll be a good chance for Cruden, especially since he's starting along his Manawatu fellow teammate Aaron Smith. I think they'll do great.

Edit:

Pumas' bench confirmed:

16. Agustín Creevy
17. Marcos Ayerza
18. Juan Pablo Orlandi
19. Tomás Leonardi
20. Leonardo Senatore
21. Martín Landajo
22. Lucas González Amorosino

Back to the 5-2 split that Phelan chose in the first match. Not surpising given that it's an away game.

 

[smartcooky]

Firstly, let me say I have no problem with Aaron Cruden. The guy is a fighter, and a very skilled 1st 5/8. There is little doubt in my mind that he is firmly the No 2 behind DC.

However, what concerns me is that while the record shows he had played 12 tests, he has only started four of them, and in two of those he has gone off early with an injury. In fact, of his 12 tests, he has only once played the full 80 min.

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[TD]TIME PLAYED
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[TD]REMARKS
[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]27 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]8 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]10 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]7 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]8 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Start
[/TD]
[TD]61 min
[/TD]
[TD]substituted off for Slade
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]47 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Start
[/TD]
[TD]80 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Start
[/TD]
[TD]33 min
[/TD]
[TD]Injured: replaced by Donald[/TD]
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[TD]Bench[/TD]
[TD]16 min[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD]Start
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[TD]24 min
[/TD]
[TD]Injured: replaced by Barrett[/TD]
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[TD]9 min[/TD]
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Cruden has had a total of only 330 minutes on the field in the All Black jersey, that is a fraction over four matches in time. I hope he doesn't get injured, and if he does, I hope Barrett is up to it at this level. This will be a step up from the 60-0 drubbing they gave the Irish back in June. Argentina is a team that will find you out if you have any weakness in the inside backs (ask the French)

No disrespect to Argentina, but I would be even more concerned if we were playing South Africa this weekend.

 

[Darwin]

I don't really have any concern at all with Cruden at 10. Though it is true that he has been injured in 2/4 starts for the AB's, I see this as far more of a coincidence than a trend. Despite his slight frame he has been remarkably resilient for Manawatu/the Chiefs - I can't remember him ever getting injured, and (if I remember correctly) he played every minute of every game for the Chiefs this season! Cruden has been the form 10 in New Zealand this season, and I have no doubt he has the maturity to cope with test match rugby - indeed I would be very comfortable seeing him start against the Boks. In my mind Carter is still the premier 10 in world rugby, but I don't think Cruden is that far behind - all he lacks is test match experience (which he will only get by playing tests!).

I'm expecting a much more complete performance by the AB's this weekend. They have lacked clinical finishing in the opening two matches of the Rugby Championship - if they can be more clinical this week and keep the same intensity they showed in the last match versus Australia they could win this game very comprehensively. Argentina look to have a very solid side, but I think the AB's have the advantage in most areas. It will be a good battle up front - the scrum is a traditional strength of Argentina, so I'm glad we have Woodcock back this week! I think the battle between the locks will be a highlight for me. I'm particularly looking forward to the Romano/Retallick pairing - both a really big guys (like their Argentine counterparts), and I feel they will complement each other very well. Even though I rate Leguizamón and Fernández Lobbe very highly I still think the AB's have a noticeable edge in the loosies, and I'm expecting Vito to have a massive game to stake him claim for the AB's 6 jersey.

If the AB's have a slight edge in the forwards, they have a huge edge in the backs. Smith is quickly developing into a world class halfback, and (in my opinion) Cruden is already a world class 10. Smith is a massive boost to the AB's midfield, with his ability to straighten the attack vital to creating space for he outsides to work with (something we have lacked with a SBW/Nonu combination). I'm looking forward to seeing how Savea goes - if he gets some space to run Argentina need to watch out, but I still think he is a bit vulnerable under he high ball.....

Overall I'm picking the AB's to win reasonably comfortably, by 25-30 points. The return match in Argentina could be another story though!

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Firstly, let me say I have no problem with Aaron Cruden. The guy is a fighter, and a very skilled 1st 5/8. There is little doubt in my mind that he is firmly the No 2 behind DC.

However, what concerns me is that while the record shows he had played 12 tests, he has only started four of them, and in two of those he has gone off early with an injury. In fact, of his 12 tests, he has only once played the full 80 min.

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[/TD]
[TD]TIME PLAYED

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[TD]REMARKS

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[TD]Bench
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[TD]27 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench
[/TD]
[TD]8 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]Bench
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[TD]10 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD]Bench
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[TD]7 min
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[TD][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]Bench
[/TD]
[TD]8 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Start

[/TD]
[TD]61 min

[/TD]
[TD]substituted off for Slade

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bench
[/TD]
[TD]47 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Start

[/TD]
[TD]80 min

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD]Start

[/TD]
[TD]33 min

[/TD]
[TD]Injured: replaced by Donald
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[TD]16 min
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD]Start

[/TD]
[TD]24 min

[/TD]
[TD]Injured: replaced by Barrett
[/TD]
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[TD]Bench
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[TD]9 min
[/TD]
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Cruden has had a total of only 330 minutes on the field in the All Black jersey, that is a fraction over four matches in time. I hope he doesn't get injured, and if he does, I hope Barrett is up to it at this level. This will be a step up from the 60-0 drubbing they gave the Irish back in June. Argentina is a team that will find you out if you have any weakness in the inside backs (ask the French)

No disrespect to Argentina, but I would be even more concerned if we were playing South Africa this weekend.

Hi Mate, Crudens slightness and smaller frame would suggest that he would be susceptible to injury but he has obviously been able to get through a full season fairly unscathed and in todays environment and compared to many other bigger players out there he has done pretty well. The big Argies will be competitve for lot longer periods than the Wallabies but the pace of the game is where they will feel the pain.

As for the concern about the skill, composure and abilty he and Barret have I think that both are more than capable in fact young Barret I believe would be a more stable and able luitenant at flyhalf as he seems to have a very calm and collective brain on him. As for the Boks they are in more turmoil then they have ever been for a long time and without showing disrespect to them.

They look limited, disjointed, lacking depth (obviously injury related) and lacking massive experience and the two recent draws points to this issue in not being able to shut down or maintain composure when you really need it. I think the dry covered ground in Dunedin will not be kind to a passionate, fervent and enthusiastic Bok team as they just dont have a strong unit that we are use to seeing in the past. The Wallaby loosies will have a fieldday on Saturday night and it wont get any easier for them the week later.

 

[smartcooky]

Well, I have heard on the radio this morning that "The Great Leveller" has arrived in Wellington for the match; heavy rain and strong winds gusting to 140 kph, which the forecasters are saying will be at theri worst this evening.

Any thoughts of an open running game will be out the window now. It will be a tough, forward oriented game, and IMO, that swings the advantage a little bit back in Argentina's favour.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I think it benefits Argentina more, but I don't think it swings the advantage in their favour...

 

[Draggs]

Well, I have heard on the radio this morning that "The Great Leveller" has arrived in Wellington for the match; heavy rain and strong winds gusting to 140 kph, which the forecasters are saying will be at theri worst this evening.

Any thoughts of an open running game will be out the window now. It will be a tough, forward oriented game, and IMO, that swings the advantage a little bit back in Argentina's favour.

Scotland by 3 then.

 

[Darwin]

The poor weather could indeed make the game a bit tighter, though poor weather hasn't always stopped the AB's blowing opposition teams away. Indeed I remember this match 12 years in Wellington, when we completely destroyed Australia 43-6 in horrendous conditions. The fact I can remember the scoreline of a match 12 years ago (before I looked it up on youtube!) makes me realize (a) I'm getting older, and (b) I spend far too much time watching/talking/thinking about rugby!