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New Zealand vs England

England were an absolute disgrace against New Zealand. C'mon, you guys have so much more resources compared to them. You're just ****, the most underachieving team of all time. You're a country of 50 Million against a country of 4 Million, for God's sake! You invented rugby, don't tell me you haven't had time to perfect it!

Pitiful. :wall:
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China ought to be pretty good then... oh wait no, your unfounded-typically-welsh-inferiority-complex-theory goes out of the window.

On a level, you're chatting all this madness about Grand Slams and going on to win world cups; your IMPROVED result was 1 point better than England's first time out. You lost 4 tries to 2. Well done Wales, lived up to all the hype once more I see.

It's like a law of rugby. Wales, because England happen to have a complex when it comes to beating Celtic teams, win a match, get really pleased with themselves about it and if they win a few more, well, hell, our boyos must be world beaters. Then they get a pounding, and its back to square 1.
 
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>Yes, so true. Ireland did much better from a miniscule player base.[/b]
If Ireland were a country of 50 million people they'd be the world champions a few times over.
[/b][/quote]

Yeah, we have the same problem in Argentina...In fact we only have about 80000 registered players in the whole country (even less than Ireland)
[/b][/quote]

Same in Scotland, we have only half the player base of even Ireland and Wales. There's just not enough interest because until yesterday the national team has been useless for 8 years.
 
On a level, you're chatting all this madness about Grand Slams and going on to win world cups; your IMPROVED result was 1 point better than England's first time out. You lost 4 tries to 2. Well done Wales, lived up to all the hype once more I see.

It's like a law of rugby. Wales, because England happen to have a complex when it comes to beating Celtic teams, win a match, get really pleased with themselves about it and if they win a few more, well, hell, our boyos must be world beaters. Then they get a pounding, and its back to square 1. [/b]

I think it is pretty much accepted that the only time a NH team is respected is when they win in the SH part of the world...which is what England did in 2003 when they beat NZ and Australia at home in succesive weeks...yep they really had our respect and deserved to win the RWC beating Australia in a final on Aussie soil!
 
<div class='quotemain'>Yes, so true. Ireland did much better from a miniscule player base.[/b]
If Ireland were a country of 50 million people they'd be the world champions a few times over.
[/b][/quote]
Try nearly 60 million, you **EDITED-LET'S KEEP THINGS CIVIL PLEASE**
 
it will be interesting to see who Andrew picks for the next test match. Personally i would like to see Borthwick dropped for Kay. Im not a massive fan of Kay`s but he always makes more of an impact than the passive Borthwick around the park and in defence. some of the criticism of Narraway has been a bit harsh. After watching a re-run of the game this morning he got through an amazing amount of work and tackled like a demon. Unfortunatly he isnt physical enough yet and should make way for Tom Croft. Move Haskell to no8 and we have a back row we should stick with for the next year at least to get some consistency. Hodgson obviously has to go(for good), the only option being Barkley. Brown at full back was brave but not pacey enough for my liking, replace him with Tait. Mears should go for Hartley. Finally Wigglesworth was so slow releasing the ball from the breakdown he must be replaced by Danny Care. The changes would make a difference but still will not be enough to get a win in NZ
 
The English forward pack in the beggining looked dangerous and were overpowering the ABs. However their dominance in the rucks was short lived and they ended up lying all over the ball and slowing it down. The canes centre combo was awesome and Nonu surprised me with his distribution skills. Oh yeah Smith is the best Centre in the world right now!!!! :bana: Sheridan bored me with lackluster scrummaging with his reputation he should mudered Somerville who I only remember collapsing it twice (rep points are on the way). Tialata had an awesome game minus his scrummaging, Carter & McCaw as always had a great game. So'oialo needs to be put back into No.8. Overall New Zealand had a great game and hopefully havea better one next week.
 
GG's player ratings:

Sheridan 5
Mears 5
Stevens 5
Palmer 5
Borthwick 4
Haskell 7
Rees 8
Narraway 4
Wigglesworth 6
Hodgson 1
Strettle 5
Barkley 5
Tindall 5
Ojo 7
Brown 4

All the subs get 5s/6s

NZ I wasn't really paying attention, thought Thorn would get a 7, McCaw a 7, Kaino a 7, Carter a 9, Nonu a 8, Smith a 9.
 
I suppose I should throw in my thoughts on the match, perhaps a bit delayed but i fell asleep at half time and had to catch a replay (damn those 3:30am games, they're killing me).

I was a little disappointed that the All Blacks tried that pick and go stuff around the fringes. It was pretty apparent that not only were England up for it in the tight but were really disrupting the ball, even getting a turnover at one point from it I believe. I think they were better off having a bit more of a go out wide because Nonu and Smith looked unstoppable. I wasn't too sure about the selection of those two, but with the way Smith has been playing I'm absolutely fine with it.

Carter finally looked like the best first-five in the world again which is good to see. However, the player I was really proud about was Andy Ellis. I thought his distribution was fantastic and he was aggressive running with the ball in hand. If you ignore that brain cramp when he tried to box kick with his left foot inside his 22 he had an almost perfect day.

The lineouts were atrocious as has been mentioned. I think you need to give it one more game before you think about bringing in a guy like Jason Eaton for the Tri-Nations to shore up the lineout. He probably deserves to be there, the only problem you have is that Brad Thorn was pretty damn good, and you'd be sacrificing him to the bench. Mind you he does make for a solid impact player in the last 20mins.

For England, Hodgson, Barkley and the full back played either poorly or horribly.
 
GG's player ratings:

Sheridan 5
Mears 5
Stevens 5
Palmer 5
Borthwick 4
Haskell 7
Rees 8
Narraway 4
Wigglesworth 6
Hodgson 1
Strettle 5
Barkley 5
Tindall 5
Ojo 7
Brown 4

All the subs get 5s/6s

NZ I wasn't really paying attention, thought Thorn would get a 7, McCaw a 7, Kaino a 7, Carter a 9, Nonu a 8, Smith a 9.
[/b]
Interesting to see you rate Stevens and Mears higher than Narraway. Only a 4 rating for a guy who despite being undersize against a superb NZ backrow put his body on the line and never gave up. balance that against two guys who consistently bully their opposition at Premiership level yet when the **** hit the fan against the NZ front row went missing and didnt contribute.
 
<div class='quotemain'>
England were an absolute disgrace against New Zealand. C'mon, you guys have so much more resources compared to them. You're just ****, the most underachieving team of all time. You're a country of 50 Million against a country of 4 Million, for God's sake! You invented rugby, don't tell me you haven't had time to perfect it!

Pitiful. :wall:
[/b]

China ought to be pretty good then... oh wait no, your unfounded-typically-welsh-inferiority-complex-theory goes out of the window.

On a level, you're chatting all this madness about Grand Slams and going on to win world cups; your IMPROVED result was 1 point better than England's first time out. You lost 4 tries to 2. Well done Wales, lived up to all the hype once more I see.

It's like a law of rugby. Wales, because England happen to have a complex when it comes to beating Celtic teams, win a match, get really pleased with themselves about it and if they win a few more, well, hell, our boyos must be world beaters. Then they get a pounding, and its back to square 1.
[/b][/quote]
:lol: You really are a prat. Of course you're on the minor English bandwagon of which believe that anything good about a Welsh rugby performance is a fluke that must be put down with arrogance and misconceptions. England were slaughtered and are underachieving. Wales were beaten (while earning some respect despite a totally unflattering final score) and have a bright future. Oh wait, what did I just say?
Wales. Future. Bright? Sorry, I must have drifted off again as I know our place is being a team that can only get the occasional win and have no hope of beating the big teams such as England and....England.
 
Wales. Future. Bright? Sorry, I must have drifted off again as I know our place is being a team that can only get the occasional win and have no hope of beating the big teams such as England and....England. [/b]
Jesus nice one. About time one of you lot started thinking with your head and not your heart. +rep for astute analysis of Celtic rugby.
 
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
England were an absolute disgrace against New Zealand. C'mon, you guys have so much more resources compared to them. You're just ****, the most underachieving team of all time. You're a country of 50 Million against a country of 4 Million, for God's sake! You invented rugby, don't tell me you haven't had time to perfect it!

Pitiful. :wall:
[/b]

China ought to be pretty good then... oh wait no, your unfounded-typically-welsh-inferiority-complex-theory goes out of the window.

On a level, you're chatting all this madness about Grand Slams and going on to win world cups; your IMPROVED result was 1 point better than England's first time out. You lost 4 tries to 2. Well done Wales, lived up to all the hype once more I see.

It's like a law of rugby. Wales, because England happen to have a complex when it comes to beating Celtic teams, win a match, get really pleased with themselves about it and if they win a few more, well, hell, our boyos must be world beaters. Then they get a pounding, and its back to square 1.
[/b][/quote]
:lol: You really are a prat. Of course you're on the minor English bandwagon of which believe that anything good about a Welsh rugby performance is a fluke that must be put down with arrogance and misconceptions. England were slaughtered and are underachieving. Wales were beaten (while earning some respect despite a totally unflattering final score) and have a bright future. Oh wait, what did I just say?
Wales. Future. Bright? Sorry, I must have drifted off again as I know our place is being a team that can only get the occasional win and have no hope of beating the big teams such as England and....England.
[/b][/quote]

We've had one match. After 1 match Wales got slaughtered.

Bright future? Your best players... Martyn Williams, had to be called back from retirement. Shane Williams, 31. Without both of those two Wales are ******.

And yes that is Wales' place. The reason England lose to at least one Celtic team every year is because they hate us so much and raise their games, and we have a complex about them. Which is why when we were the best team in the world we only got 1 Grand Slam. Which is why when we've ****** all over Wales for a half a match and then gift them a victory.

It works in stages:

1) Once a team like Wales beats England, they're really pleased with themselves. But imagine for a second that England had done a remotely professional job on Wales in that 2nd half... you would have gone back to Cardiff with your tails between your legs and noone's tounges would be up Gatland's arse.

2) Anyway, they then have plenty of confidence, and go and beat some very poor opposition from the rest of Europe, and they all were poor, don't argue with me on that. So, anyway, you have a grand slam under your belts. Suddenly Wales all think they're the best in the world, it's back to the 1970s glory days and blah blah blah.

3) Next it's bringing Wales onto the World Stage. In 2005 it was the Lions. This year it's South Africa. The Lions' problem wasn't that they hadn't gelled or any of that rubbish. They just weren't good enough personnel wise; they couldn't even beat Argentina let alone New Zealand. So this year Gatland thinks Wales can beat the World Champions, and they get slaughtered. Next game, naturally, Wales play a bit better. Scoreline doesn't lie; they were heavily beaten again.

4) Now the bubble's burst it's time for excuses. The Lions blamed it all on Umaga, Gavin Henson's form and Jonny's injuries. This summer it's because of injuries (perrennial excuse, good teams have strength in depth) and of course it's the referee's fault. But no matter, let's retain some confidence for the Autumn...

5) Autumn comes around. Despite having high hopes, Wales produce a highly inconsistent set of performances, and if there's one good one it'll be amongst other poor ones, and therefore assumed a fluke.

6) Back to the same old Wales, the team that occasionally thrills but is generally **** poor. Cycle repeats in a few years' time.
 
We've had one match. After 1 match Wales got slaughtered.

Bright future? Your best players... Martyn Williams, had to be called back from retirement. Shane Williams, 31. Without both of those two Wales are ******.

And yes that is Wales' place. The reason England lose to at least one Celtic team every year is because they hate us so much and raise their games, and we have a complex about them. Which is why when we were the best team in the world we only got 1 Grand Slam. Which is why when we've ****** all over Wales for a half a match and then gift them a victory.

It works in stages:

1) Once a team like Wales beats England, they're really pleased with themselves. But imagine for a second that England had done a remotely professional job on Wales in that 2nd half... you would have gone back to Cardiff with your tails between your legs and noone's tounges would be up Gatland's arse.

2) Anyway, they then have plenty of confidence, and go and beat some very poor opposition from the rest of Europe, and they all were poor, don't argue with me on that. So, anyway, you have a grand slam under your belts. Suddenly Wales all think they're the best in the world, it's back to the 1970s glory days and blah blah blah.

3) Next it's bringing Wales onto the World Stage. In 2005 it was the Lions. This year it's South Africa. The Lions' problem wasn't that they hadn't gelled or any of that rubbish. They just weren't good enough personnel wise; they couldn't even beat Argentina let alone New Zealand. So this year Gatland thinks Wales can beat the World Champions, and they get slaughtered. Next game, naturally, Wales play a bit better. Scoreline doesn't lie; they were heavily beaten again.

4) Now the bubble's burst it's time for excuses. The Lions blamed it all on Umaga, Gavin Henson's form and Jonny's injuries. This summer it's because of injuries (perrennial excuse, good teams have strength in depth) and of course it's the referee's fault. But no matter, let's retain some confidence for the Autumn...

5) Autumn comes around. Despite having high hopes, Wales produce a highly inconsistent set of performances, and if there's one good one it'll be amongst other poor ones, and therefore assumed a fluke.

6) Back to the same old Wales, the team that occasionally thrills but is generally **** poor. Cycle repeats in a few years' time.
[/b]
Congratulations for proving my point.
 
Ok match overall - good play by England for the first 10-20 mins, then New Zealand took over for half an hour, then the match turned very scrappy...

For England I was very impressed by Rees - thought he was the best player on the park for England. Ojo, Haskell, and Barkley had solid games. I thought Narraway wasn't bad either - had a very high work rate, but did give away a few penalties.

For the AB's I was impressed with Tuitavake - didn't get many chances on attack , but was very strong in defense. The midfield was superb again just like last week. Carter was good - setting up tries for not only New Zealand, but also providing the beautiful pass to set up Ojo's first try - it was the only way the ball was going to be passed to Ojo all night with that English backline!! Kaino was strong from 8, and I was particularly impressed by Brad Thorn - to see the impact he has you just have to look at how the AB's scrum went downhill when he left the field...

Their were two players who played very badly for the AB's - subs Cowan and Lauaki. Cowans distribution was horrible and he made a number of errors - we need Leonard to recover from injury quickly. Lauaki was pathetically lazy, and lost the ball 2-3 times in the brief time he was on. He should have stopped Ojo's second try as well if he could have been bothered running back after the ball rather than just jogging... If fit and on form he can be devastating, but tonight he played himself out of the team.
 
Agreed darwin, Tuituvake when he got his hands on the ball was very dangerous.

As for Lauaki, why is he even in the team? He is a big bloke but doesn't have a brain, he runs into contact totally vertical so a defender has more to defend against and he doesn't get as much power going through that way. He needs to run in and concentrate his power on one position in the line to break the line, instead of sorta just floating through and hoping his bulk makes the tackles fall off. It's hard to explain but you'll know what I mean when you see it...
 
As for Lauaki, why is he even in the team? He is a big bloke but doesn't have a brain, he runs into contact totally vertical so a defender has more to defend against and he doesn't get as much power going through that way. He needs to run in and concentrate his power on one position in the line to break the line, instead of sorta just floating through and hoping his bulk makes the tackles fall off. It's hard to explain but you'll know what I mean when you see it... [/b]

Totally agree...Lauaki was totally useless!
 
Yea Lauaki is a strange one, he's one of the strongest and physical players in world rugby but his slow and laboured style of attack means its easy for him to be driven back. He is skillful as, good offloader, soft hands etc.. but when he's out of form he's woeful.
 
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