June Internationals: Japan v Wales, Second Test (15/06/13)

[TRF_Cymro]

15th June, 14:00pm (Local), 6:00am BST
Tokyo, Japan​

 

[dullonien]

Hoping for a number of changes from last weeks side.

Gill should come in for Bevington, who had a hugely disappointing game, and I'd be tempted to give Baldwin a start over Emyr Phillips who was a little hit and miss. If Craig Mitchell is fit again, he should start at 3 so we can really pressure the Japanese scrum.

I'm really not a fan of Lou Reed (despite what Cyril thinks), and I wouldn't have him in the 23 at all. Switching Coombs to second row, where he's more impressive should be an easy decision, as should bringing Peers onto the bench. That allows for a backrow where players are mostly played in their natural positions, with King at blindside, Navidi at 7 and Pretorius at 8 (only option).

We've got less options in the backline, but I thought Knoyle made an impact and possibly deserves a start, although a little lee way should maybe be given to Lloyd Williams due to the rubbish his forwards presented him with. If we had a little more experience elsewhere in the backline, I'd be tempted to give Patchell a start, but Biggar needs to start to offer a controlling influence. Shingler should come in at 12, Spratt is simply not good enough.

So my squad would be:

01 Rhys Gill
02 Scott Baldwin
03 Craig Mitchell
04 Bradley Davies
05 Andrew Coombs
06 James King
07 Josh Navidi
08 Andries Pretorius

09 Tavis Knoyle/Lloyd Williams
10 Dan Biggar
11 Dafydd Howells
12 Steven Shingler
13 Owen Williams
14 Harry Robinson
15 Liam Williams

16 Emyr Phillips
17 Ryan Bevington
18 Scott Andrews
19 Lloyd Peers
20 Dan Baker
21 Lloyd Williams/Tavis Knoyle
22 Rhys Patchell
23 Adam Warren/Tom Prydie

 

[Big Ewis]

K, good luck this time !

 

[Draggs]

Biggar didn't train yesterday, team has been delayed due to injury concerns.
That would be my 23, except Prydie for Howells. Not knocking Dafydd, just want a little more experience in the team.
If Biggar is out, then Warren to bench, as Patchell is promoted to start.
Hope we get further improvements from Coombs, Davies, Williams. It would be great to have some second row depth with regards to the former two. Lovely offload from Williams. He can play a good game when not caught up in scrapping.

 

[Draggs]

Spratt, possibly the worst centre I have ever seen play for Wales, starts, no Shingler
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Blues), Bradley Davies (CAPT) (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), James King (Ospreys), Josh Navidi (Blues), Andries Pretorius (Blues).
Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Rhys Patchell (Blues), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys).

How are Reed, Phillips, still in the team??? Lou Reed wouldn't look out of place in a 90s Welsh team.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

The fact that they've retained Reed over Coombs makes me genuinely angry. Lou Reed is a lazy lump with virtually no redeeming features. Coombs works bloody hard and gets results from it. I know which one I'd rather have it my team, and which one has my respect.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Not a bad selection. The one I don't really agree with his Emyr Phillips starting over Scott Baldwin apart from that happy about the XV.

People are critical of Reed and Spratt. Neither were really terrible, they are not flashy but solid players who do the basics well and they are being given another chance to prove themselves. By all accounts seems Shingler is carrying a knock an is therefore not involved.

 

[psychic duck]

Spratt, possibly the worst centre I have ever seen play for Wales, starts, no Shingler
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Blues), Bradley Davies (CAPT) (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), James King (Ospreys), Josh Navidi (Blues), Andries Pretorius (Blues).
Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Rhys Patchell (Blues), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys).

How are Reed, Phillips, still in the team??? Lou Reed wouldn't look out of place in a 90s Welsh team.

My thoughts on this:
- Rob McCusker's Wales career finally over? Not even on the bench, he was god awful last week in fairness, probably the worst player on the pitch for either side
- Josh Navidi makes a better balanced back row, makes Dullonien happier as well
- Lloyd Williams wasn't great last week and Knoyle did better, this is a big game for him to show himself for the bench position in November
- Surprised Lou Reed is ahead of Coombs tbh after all that fuss made of the man of Gwent during the 6N
- Would have rather seen Shingler play 12 ahead of Spratt, or if injured I think Patchell would be a better option there after a decent cameo last week
- Ryan Bevington not even on the bench? Not sure why Wales seem to be pushing Rhodri Jones as a utility prop by the way (was tighthead sub last week) as ther nowe are 23 man benches.

A better team than last week probably. Japan have made one change bringing back their captain from injury. Their injured first choice locks are back as well but merely make the bench. I expect they will come on pretty early though in the second half.

Onozawa is off the bench with a small injury, he made his debut in this fixture at the same stadium 12 years ago, scoring this nice try. 12 years on he is the only player remaining from the 2001 tour from either side and became the most capped Japanese player of all time this month. He is also a player who has beaten Wales before, with Suntory Sungoliath.

<iframe width="375" height="281" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cxn2rUr2LKc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Not a bad selection. The one I don't really agree with his Emyr Phillips starting over Scott Baldwin apart from that happy about the XV.

People are critical of Reed and Spratt. Neither were really terrible, they are not flashy but solid players who do the basics well and they are being given another chance to prove themselves. By all accounts seems Shingler is carrying a knock an is therefore not involved.

I more agree with Draggs assessment on Reed tbh. A 1990's Welsh lock is a very good way of describing him. He wasn't great last week either and doesn't work as hard as some other players.

As for Spratt, he is ineffectual for the Ospreys and no different at international level. Was a strange call up to the squad in the first place to be honest after not really achieving anything of note since his last chance in 2009, granted there is not too much depth for Wales there, but I think Wales would have been better served for the future trying to integrate Henson back or playing Hook at 12 to get a gauge of possible selections for November rather than Spratt who will never make it. Or from the squad, I would have rather seen Patchell or Shingler play 12.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Japan deserved to win the last game to I feel it will be justice if they win this time as long as Wales don't pick up their game.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

My thoughts on this:
- Rob McCusker's Wales career finally over? Not even on the bench, he was god awful last week in fairness, probably the worst player on the pitch for either side
- Josh Navidi makes a better balanced back row, makes Dullonien happier as well
- Lloyd Williams wasn't great last week and Knoyle did better, this is a big game for him to show himself for the bench position in November
- Surprised Lou Reed is ahead of Coombs tbh after all that fuss made of the man of Gwent during the 6N
- Would have rather seen Shingler play 12 ahead of Spratt, or if injured I think Patchell would be a better option there after a decent cameo last week
- Ryan Bevington not even on the bench? Not sure why Wales seem to be pushing Rhodri Jones as a utility prop by the way (was tighthead sub last week) as ther nowe are 23 man benches.

A better team than last week probably. Japan have made one change bringing back their captain from injury. Their injured first choice locks are back as well but merely make the bench. I expect they will come on pretty early though in the second half.

Onozawa is off the bench with a small injury, he made his debut in this fixture at the same stadium 12 years ago, scoring this nice try. 12 years on he is the only player remaining from the 2001 tour from either side and became the most capped Japanese player of all time this month. He is also a player who has beaten Wales before, with Suntory Sungoliath.

<iframe height="281" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cxn2rUr2LKc?rel=0" frameBorder="0" width="375" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>



I more agree with Draggs assessment on Reed tbh. A 1990's Welsh lock is a very good way of describing him. He wasn't great last week either and doesn't work as hard as some other players.

As for Spratt, he is ineffectual for the Ospreys and no different at international level. Was a strange call up to the squad in the first place to be honest after not really achieving anything of note since his last chance in 2009, granted there is not too much depth for Wales there, but I think Wales would have been better served for the future trying to integrate Henson back or playing Hook at 12 to get a gauge of possible selections for November rather than Spratt who will never make it. Or from the squad, I would have rather seen Patchell or Shingler play 12.

Meh, it's a matter of opinion, quite a lot here are harsh on certain players. Reed isn't terrible as what yourself and Draggs make him out. He's neither world class but just a decent filler in. Personally I would have prefered seeing Olly Kohn or Lloyd Peers getting a run, but Lou has done nothing really wrong. He's just not as good as our other first choice locks. Spratt is the same as Reed, not flashy but does the basics well, he tackled really well last week, he's not a guy like Beck who can create something out of nothing or a Roberts type player who will power through players. Spratt is not a world beater but rather a guy who won't let you down. He's not really ever going to be considered outside of the Lions tests so don't you lot wory. As I said, Shingler apparently has a knock and wasn't considered, I am sure he would have been if he was fit.

 

[psychic duck]

Meh, it's a matter of opinion, quite a lot here are harsh on certain players. Reed isn't terrible as what yourself and Draggs make him out. He's neither world class but just a decent filler in. Personally I would have prefered seeing Olly Kohn or Lloyd Peers getting a run, but Lou has done nothing really wrong. He's just not as good as our other first choice locks. Spratt is the same as Reed, not flashy but does the basics well, he tackled really well last week, he's not a guy like Beck who can create something out of nothing or a Roberts type player who will power through players. Spratt is not a world beater but rather a guy who won't let you down. He's not really ever going to be considered outside of the Lions tests so don't you lot wory. As I said, Shingler apparently has a knock and wasn't considered, I am sure he would have been if he was fit.

Spratt made 0 metres from 4 carries last week. That gives a clue to how effective he is.

Lou Reed made a total of 2 tackles (with 1 missed) which was less than any other forward on the pitch. That gives a clue to how good his workrate and fitness is.

 

[Draggs]

We are not the only ones with this opinion about Reed. Look at some other forums and you will see that our opinions are rather 'tame' compared to others. He just doesn't do much. Wonder how much he is paying for his ticket? Best view in the stadium.

I did see pictures of Shingler in training and he looked fit, but perhaps he never fully recovered, hence his last arrival.

 

[dullonien]

Much better team this time around. Very happy with the backrow. No idea why Lou Reed is there, even if he isn't terrible. Coombs and Kohn offer more, whilst there was also a chance of blooding Peers who has a much brighter future.

I'm with duck regarding Spratt as well. If he's never going to be involved again, then its a wasted cap. We'd have been better re-integrating Henson back into the squad, or picking Hook there. Considering who's in the Wales squad though, and with Shingler injured, there wasn't much of a choice.

 

[psychic duck]

Why don't Japan seriously look to recruit sumo wrestlers to be their props?

They are all a minimum 130+kg, and all trained in the art of grappling and pushing and should have a good grasp of how to move their body to get good force with at rucks and scrums. I know fitness and mobility may be an issue, but everyone always says they are surprisingly mobile.

Wales met up and watched some sumo training on this tour, and I can't help but think that some of those guys would be hard work for the opponents to shove about at scrums, and they could even be of use ball carrying as well with such weight, at least to free up space for others by drawing in defenders to tackle.

I'm with duck regarding Spratt as well. If he's never going to be involved again, then its a wasted cap. We'd have been better re-integrating Henson back into the squad, or picking Hook there. Considering who's in the Wales squad though, and with Shingler injured, there wasn't much of a choice.

Patchell.

 

[Draggs]

I wondered what Darren Morris was up to these days!

 

[dullonien]

Patchell.

I'd prefer not to play him out of position in only his second cap. He could play centre, But just because he can doesn't mean he should. We've messed around too many players shoving them all over the pitch, so for once I'd like to see Patchell stick to playing 10. Considering the Blues have no other quality 10's, he'll be staying there for the foreseeable future.

 

[sifplay]

Why don't Japan seriously look to recruit sumo wrestlers to be their props?

They are all a minimum 130+kg, and all trained in the art of grappling and pushing and should have a good grasp of how to move their body to get good force with at rucks and scrums. I know fitness and mobility may be an issue, but everyone always says they are surprisingly mobile.

Wales met up and watched some sumo training on this tour, and I can't help but think that some of those guys would be hard work for the opponents to shove about at scrums, and they could even be of use ball carrying as well with such weight, at least to free up space for others by drawing in defenders to tackle.

Patchell.

Same reason NFL have a offensive team full of lard arses and a defensive team full of lard arses. They would not last 30 minutes let alone 80 minutes in a game due to endurance issues.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Spratt made 0 metres from 4 carries last week. That gives a clue to how effective he is.

Lou Reed made a total of 2 tackles (with 1 missed) which was less than any other forward on the pitch. That gives a clue to how good his workrate and fitness is.

Stats can be interpretated in whatever way you want them to be done ... how about the meters Reed made? Seemingly overlooked. Made more than others ... Bevington, McCusker and King for example. He isn't lazy as it's being suggested, he's not a great player but again he's not terrible. He's a stop gap filler, whilst injuries and players are away.

Draggs it is the truth tho the people I constantly harping on about Reed in most of these threads are yourself and Duck. It's like you boys get your knickers in a twist. Quite amusing.

Oh and I'm really just sick and tired of seeing players constantly slated, get's really boring and very depressing to read. Got to be realistic at times too and realise that players make mistakes, this is a development tour and yes some players are not as good as the ones with the Lions or are being rested. It's part and parcel of the game.

 

[Draggs]

My knickers are perfectly fine. If you want to see slagging off, go to gwlad or scumv, that is something else compared to Duck and I lamenting poor performances. The facts is, I'd rather see someone like Peers given a change over Reed, who hasn't looked like improving in many years. I understand mistakes, and have no issue with them. There is a difference between mistakes and just not being a great player.

Glad to see Biggar has made it, really saved our bacon last week. Remarkable improvement in temperament over the past three years, really developing into a class player.

Ignore 'stats'. It's like they say, lies, damned lies, and statistics. Espnscrum's are often completely off, or paint the wrong picture.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I don't really spend time reading other forums ... as THIS forum is the most important. Whatever happens on those boards, happens on those boards. If it doesn't directly affect this forum then I am not fussed what they say.