Australia vs Wales (06/07/2024)

[Jimbo]

He was never any good, he just looked decent on the front foot in open play. He has never been able to defend, pass, or make decisions.

Maybe a little harsh, good club player but not international level might be fairer.

 

[dirty harry]

Listening to Dewi lake was sad...

Hes saying all the things he is supposed to 'as a group we will fight for each other, we wont need galvanising etc) but it's clear he doesnt mean it. He looks on the verge of tears!

 

[Jimbo]

Listening to Dewi lake was sad...

Hes saying all the things he is supposed to 'as a group we will fight for each other, we wont need galvanising etc) but it's clear he doesnt mean it. He looks on the verge of tears!

What's the truth of it though, Wales are lacking quality in many positions and certainly Gatland isn't the one to maximise what they do have?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Whatever your opinion is of the quality of players in Wales, after two 6 nations, a World Cup and 2 recent internationals against SH opposition the players don't really look like they know what they're doing. We have no identity or any really discernible style of play (especially in attack other than refusing to play any rugby in the middle third)

As I say, regardless of whatever your view is on the quality of player I expect to see the above after the amount of time Gatland has had with them. I don't think the players are on board to be honest.

 

[dirty harry]

What's the truth of it though, Wales are lacking quality in many positions and certainly Gatland isn't the one to maximise what they do have?

I mean what do they have?

I thought Gareth Thomas, Tsiunza, Jenkins and Wainright all went ok, outside of that it was awful.

what's annoyed me today, is that players are being sent out in front of the media talking about basics, simplicity and structure, then overplay every opportunity.

We couldnt get good front foot ball from the lineout, and when we did early on the maul looked capable, so what do we do? That's right, run double shifts, blind offloads inside, and shift the ball at contact point. NONE OF THIS WAS NECESARY, a catch and drive will work all day!

 

[dirty harry]

Whatever your opinion is of the quality of players in Wales, after two 6 nations, a World Cup and 2 recent internationals against SH opposition the players don't really look like they know what they're doing. We have no identity or any really discernible style of play (especially in attack other than refusing to play any rugby in the middle third)

As I say, regardless of whatever your view is on the quality of player I expect to see the above after the amount of time Gatland has had with them. I don't think the players are on board to be honest.

That's hardly an honest take is it?

Gatland prepped Wales for the RWC last minute, and then had a host of retirement pre and post RWC. Hes just over a year in, and he is having to blood debutants against the best in the world.

Now I'll slate Gatland for today, the team over complicated everything for no effing reason. He sent players to the media talking about basics, but absolutely no basics were evident!

Ultimately though, this squad is tier 2 quality, bar 4/5 players.

 

[Welsh Exile]

That's hardly an honest take is it?

Gatland prepped Wales for the RWC last minute, and then had a host of retirement pre and post RWC. Hes just over a year in, and he is having to blood debutants against the best in the world.

Now I'll slate Gatland for today, the team over complicated everything for no effing reason. He sent players to the media talking about basics, but absolutely no basics were evident!

Ultimately though, this squad is tier 2 quality, bar 4/5 players.

Schmidt had 6 training sessions with Australia. Sure Gatland has had stuff to deal with but I don't think you can wipe out all the games he's had like he's only just taken over last week. We look clueless mate.

 

[Welsh Exile]

But to be fair, as I've said before. What is King doing? That scrum on their 5 meter line (that we actually got a good platform on) that wainwright went blind and gave to Hathaway to run into touch. It's embarrassing.

 

[dirty harry]

But to be fair, as I've said before. What is King doing? That scrum on their 5 meter line (that we actually got a good platform on) that wainwright went blind and gave to Hathaway to run into touch. It's embarrassing.

That I agree with 100%. I actually commented on how idiotic that was!

And it's notthe only example, Hathaway, Grady, Dyer, Thomas all made U16 decisions ball in hand

 

[dullonien]

I mean what do they have?

I thought Gareth Thomas, Tsiunza, Jenkins and Wainright all went ok, outside of that it was awful.

what's annoyed me today, is that players are being sent out in front of the media talking about basics, simplicity and structure, then overplay every opportunity.

We couldnt get good front foot ball from the lineout, and when we did early on the maul looked capable, so what do we do? That's right, run double shifts, blind offloads inside, and shift the ball at contact point. NONE OF THIS WAS NECESARY, a catch and drive will work all day!

Not sure what you saw in Gareth Thomas today, he offers abdolutely nothing in a position where most other sides have a player who really impacts a game through their carrying, breakdown work etc. His fitness is good, but that's about it. To think that Nicky Smith and Rhys Carre have been overlooked for him is bloody poor! Mathias was a big step up today, and that's saying something, he even seemed to improve the scrum!

It's just another example of **** poor player selection by Gats at a time where we're crying out for players who are capable of making an impact. As a result we rely on Lake to make the majority of the hard yards, but if he has an off day like today, we're a bit screwed.

I thought Ben Thomas was OK, if unspectacular. One pass straight to touch was poor, and he struggled to put his stamp on proceedings, but he kicked well at least. Grady at 12 just doesn't work, so maybe we should look at a 10-12-13 combination of Costellow (who actually added some spark when he came on today), Thomas and Grady. I think Costellow and Thomas could really help each other, share the kicking, and hopefully unlock some of the dangerous outside backs.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Not sure what you saw in Gareth Thomas today, he offers abdolutely nothing in a position where most other sides have a player who really impacts a game through their carrying, breakdown work etc. His fitness is good, but that's about it. To think that Nicky Smith and Rhys Carre have been overlooked for him is bloody poor! Mathias was a big step up today, and that's saying something, he even seemed to improve the scrum!

It's just another example of **** poor player selection by Gats at a time where we're crying out for players who are capable of making an impact. As a result we rely on Lake to make the majority of the hard yards, but if he has an off day like today, we're a bit screwed.

I thought Ben Thomas was OK, if unspectacular. One pass straight to touch was poor, and he struggled to put his stamp on proceedings, but he kicked well at least. Grady at 12 just doesn't work, so maybe we should look at a 10-12-13 combination of Costellow (who actually added some spark when he came on today), Thomas and Grady. I think Costellow and Thomas could really help each other, share the kicking, and hopefully unlock some of the dangerous outside backs.

He's not interested in props with ball skills and offloading ability like Carre as he doesn't want his props to do anything other than scrum and tackle.

 

[dullonien]

He's not interested in props with ball skills and offloading ability like Carre as he doesn't want his props to do anything other than scrum and tackle.

I mean if they were destrictive scrummagers I'd be fine with that. But Gareth Thomas holds his own at best, and has often been a part of a beaten pack, though usually playing alongside poor tightheads. Ospreys scrum is significantly stronger with Nicky Smith at 1 though.

 

[dirty harry]

Not sure what you saw in Gareth Thomas today, he offers abdolutely nothing in a position where most other sides have a player who really impacts a game through their carrying, breakdown work etc. His fitness is good, but that's about it. To think that Nicky Smith and Rhys Carre have been overlooked for him is bloody poor! Mathias was a big step up today, and that's saying something, he even seemed to improve the scrum!

It's just another example of **** poor player selection by Gats at a time where we're crying out for players who are capable of making an impact. As a result we rely on Lake to make the majority of the hard yards, but if he has an off day like today, we're a bit screwed.

I thought Ben Thomas was OK, if unspectacular. One pass straight to touch was poor, and he struggled to put his stamp on proceedings, but he kicked well at least. Grady at 12 just doesn't work, so maybe we should look at a 10-12-13 combination of Costellow (who actually added some spark when he came on today), Thomas and Grady. I think Costellow and Thomas could really help each other, share the kicking, and hopefully unlock some of the dangerous outside backs.

Look I get it, Carre is the best ball carrying prop in Wales...

But the rumours of his training, and extra curricular activities at Cardiff means he deserves to be ruled out IMHO. I'm a fan of his, but even at his best he is a scrum weakness.Mathias looked ok, but you have to understand he came on against different personell.

Same with Costelow, I get he came on and looked better, but 60 mins is much different to 6 mins. Thomas looked bad, but that doesnt mean Costelow is anything other than Welsh prem standard.

 

[dirty harry]

I mean if they were destrictive scrummagers I'd be fine with that. But Gareth Thomas holds his own at best, and has often been a part of a beaten pack, though usually playing alongside poor tightheads. Ospreys scrum is significantly stronger with Nicky Smith at 1 though.

I'm a fan of Smith, but Thomas is easily our strength come scrum time. Every Aus penalty there exploited Griffin, and around the park Thomas looked good.

 

[dullonien]

Look I get it, Carre is the best ball carrying prop in Wales...

But the rumours of his training, and extra curricular activities at Cardiff means he deserves to be ruled out IMHO. I'm a fan of his, but even at his best he is a scrum weakness.Mathias looked ok, but you have to understand he came on against different personell.

Same with Costelow, I get he came on and looked better, but 60 mins is much different to 6 mins. Thomas looked bad, but that doesnt mean Costelow is anything other than Welsh prem standard.

Yeah, I can understand that. But if it works for Carre, then it works. Who's to even say he's be the same player with less weight? Look at someone like Atonio for France, his strength is the fact that he's 20+ stone which makes him a bloody handful. Carre plays well at the weight he is, it's worked for him his entire carrer, and Gats took him to the WC in Japan based on it! Gats obviously priorotises fitness over pretty much anything else, and tbh it's getting us bloody nowhere.

I think there might have been a crossover of Mathias coming on against the starting Aus front row, but I may be wrong. Or did he come on when Gareth Thomas was yellow carded in the first half? Edit. Just checked and yes, Mathias came on on 41min, so played and scrummaged against the first choice Aus front row. I've been very vocal about how **** I think Msthias is, but he does offer much more around the park, which he showed today imo

Agree about Costellow. He's been poor for a while, so I'm not going to start thinking he's the amswer based on a few minutes at the end of a lost test match. But I do think dual playmakers coulf help us. The crash 12 certainly isn't working, so why not?-

 

[dullonien]

I'm a fan of Smith, but Thomas is easily our strength come scrum time. Every Aus penalty there exploited Griffin, and around the park Thomas looked good.

Except that Smith is first choice at Ospreys, mainly because of his scrummaging

 

[dullonien]

Just to clarify the Gareth Thomas thing. I'm not saying that all of Wales' issues are his fault. He's good enough to be part of a winning side, if we had others in the pack to provide impact.

But I think he's a good example of a trend Gats has of preferring solid, average players over alternatives with maybe a couple of flaws, but much bigger bonuses. The likes of Beard, Watkin, Costellow, Dyer are other examples for me from the current group who are pretty average, but are hard working. This tactic worked when there was still room in international rugby to be 'fitter' than the opposition, but in all honesty we've probably reached the peak of how fit a side can be and when we come up against all the other sides who are just as fit nowadays, we then come second best in all other facets.

Edit. Sorry for the tripple post.

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah, I can understand that. But if it works for Carre, then it works. Who's to even say he's be the same player with less weight? Look at someone like Atonio for France, his strength is the fact that he's 20+ stone which makes him a bloody handful. Carre plays well at the weight he is, it's worked for him his entire carrer, and Gats took him to the WC in Japan based on it! Gats obviously priorotises fitness over pretty much anything else, and tbh it's getting us bloody nowhere.

I think there might have been a crossover of Mathias coming on against the starting Aus front row, but I may be wrong. Or did he come on when Gareth Thomas was yellow carded in the first half? Edit. Just checked and yes, Mathias came on on 41min, so played and scrummaged against the first choice Aus front row. I've been very vocal about how **** I think Msthias is, but he does offer much more around the park, which he showed today imo

Agree about Costellow. He's been poor for a while, so I'm not going to start thinking he's the amswer based on a few minutes at the end of a lost test match. But I do think dual playmakers coulf help us. The crash 12 certainly isn't working, so why not?-

I was trying not to say it out loud....

Carre is a bit of a coke head from what I've heard from current Cardiff players. He wont be the first, and he womt be the last but hes nowhere near a role model

 

[dirty harry]

Except that Smith is first choice at Ospreys, mainly because of his scrummaging

First choice is hardly a recommendation in 2024. Props arent 80 minute players, they ar 50 min players.

 

[dullonien]

I was trying not to say it out loud....

Carre is a bit of a coke head from what I've heard from current Cardiff players. He wont be the first, and he womt be the last but hes nowhere near a role model

Hmm, Ok. Not heard anything myself, but it could explain a lot.