England 2023/24

[Ragey Erasmus]

I also hope that Borthwick doesn't repeat what Jones did and decide to make basically no changes after the WC and then mix and match the players not at fault like crazy 2 years down the line after the same old players get worse and worse without being dropped. There are players at the last WC who should already have had replacements lined up to take their spot if their form didn't improve but didn't (8, 9 and 10 being the main culprits) with 9 being a culprit for 2 WCs in a row. This team do not have strong foundations that are worth preserving, wholesale change is needed and all players must realise they can be swapped out if they consistently fail to perform. I have no problem with older players being retained if they continue performing but it's ridiculous if an older player can put in bad performance after bad performance without being dropped but a new players is dumped instantly if they don't peak and stay there from game 1.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Spencer would be very controversial with his support for XL Bully dogs. Not sure having him as captain would do much for Rugby's image.

Just read what he's written on his gofundme. Well reasoned and logical. And he's actually standing for something.

All moot as he won't get a look in, but his personal views on something like that shouldn't be an issue provided he stays on the right side of the law and didn't cause a distracting PR meltdown, which I doubt it would beyond the first 5 minutes.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Just read what he's written on his gofundme. Well reasoned and logical. And he's actually standing for something.

All moot as he won't get a look in, but his personal views on something like that shouldn't be an issue provided he stays on the right side of the law and didn't cause a distracting PR meltdown, which I doubt it would beyond the first 5 minutes.

If he was Captain it will be a major talking point. Not worth it for a team and sport that needs to avoid controversy.

 

[BrokenWing]

At least Borthwick actually seems to show an interest in the Premiership and watching the players. As far as I'm aware, Jones showed no interest in seeing which players were in form and which weren't.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

At least Borthwick actually seems to show an interest in the Premiership and watching the players. As far as I'm aware, Jones showed no interest in seeing which players were in form and which weren't.

Nah, EJ was regularly in the stands tbf to him

Didn't seem to influence his decisions much, but he was there

 

[BrokenWing]

Nah, EJ was regularly in the stands tbf to him

Didn't seem to influence his decisions much, but he was there

And STILL picked those players? Wow.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Genge is going to be a cert with Marler retiring.
He captained Tigers under Borthwick

Kinda feel like it's an easy 1 year call for Borthwick

Will be interesting to see how it goes
My feeling is a team of
1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole
4. Martin
5. Itoje
6. Chessum
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Mitchell
10. Ford
11. Watson
12. Tuilagi
13. Lawrence
14. Arundell
15. Steward

16. LCD, 17. Rodd, 18. Stuart, 19. Hill, 20. Pearson, 21. Spencer, 22. M.Smith, 23. Freeman

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Let's hope Borthwick doesn't paint himself into a corner by announcing as captain someone who isn't a certain starter this time.

"Owen has changed his role and will be Captaining the side remotely"

 

[Geordie]

Genge is going to be a cert with Marler retiring.
He captained Tigers under Borthwick

Kinda feel like it's an easy 1 year call for Borthwick

Will be interesting to see how it goes
My feeling is a team of
1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole
4. Martin
5. Itoje
6. Chessum
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Mitchell
10. Ford
11. Watson
12. Tuilagi
13. Lawrence
14. Arundell
15. Steward

16. LCD, 17. Rodd, 18. Stuart, 19. Hill, 20. Pearson, 21. Spencer, 22. M.Smith, 23. Freeman

Along the lines of the team I expect....

 

[McTallshort]

I also hope that Borthwick doesn't repeat what Jones did and decide to make basically no changes after the WC and then mix and match the players not at fault like crazy 2 years down the line after the same old players get worse and worse without being dropped. There are players at the last WC who should already have had replacements lined up to take their spot if their form didn't improve but didn't (8, 9 and 10 being the main culprits) with 9 being a culprit for 2 WCs in a row. This team do not have strong foundations that are worth preserving, wholesale change is needed and all players must realise they can be swapped out if they consistently fail to perform. I have no problem with older players being retained if they continue performing but it's ridiculous if an older player can put in bad performance after bad performance without being dropped but a new players is dumped instantly if they don't peak and stay there from game 1.

I just want Borthwick to pick the best side he can to win, I don't want to here about planning for the next WC etc etc. just want him to win some games

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

What I read in a Times interview with Lawes is that he's totally finished with England regardless of injury situation but would consider the Lions in the unlikely event they asked him.

Firstly, hope Farrell and his family will be OK. Robust criticism of Farrell the player is fine, anything else really isn't. He's taken a lot of public abuse since the red plus I've always said that Eng have piled too much on him (and probably allowed him to self-inflict pressure too) with all the on and off field roles he's been asked to perform. Any threats to his wellbeing or involving his family are doubly disgusting.

One door closes, another opens, perhaps permanently (Faz will be 33 in Sep).

At 10 it's Smith or Ford. I'd be inclined to roll the dice with Smith but Ford with a bit more licence to play would be fine too, but not really the long term future - turns 31 during the tournament.

Skipper:

Wild card - Spencer's captaining Bath and is in form. Mitchell went OK in France but unconvinced he's the long term answer.

Otherwise lay down the gauntlet to Itoje. Might backfire, but might be brilliant motivation for him (and help keep him in England).

Hopefully lessons have been learned with regards to Owen.The haters are always going to hate but as England fans we don't need to destroy our own.I think ford has earned the right to be first choice 10 due to his World Cup performances in farrells absence but wouldn't be against smith starting either.I just think England need a steady hand steering the ship with so much change occurring at present and ford fits that bill and is probably ahead of smith in consistency levels at this time.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

 

[TopTen2003]

Assuming he continues to be first on the team sheet, Itoje looks by far and away the captain call for me.

He's experienced now, had a better RWC, and according to him was physically in a much better place.

Let the likes of Chessum and Martin grow alongside - I can't have Genge captain when he's yet to prove he's the best scrummager we can pick.

I feel like he may have one more RWC in him too if managed correctly through the cycle.

 

[higgik]

Assuming he continues to be first on the team sheet, Itoje looks by far and away the captain call for me.

He's experienced now, had a better RWC, and according to him was physically in a much better place.

Let the likes of Chessum and Martin grow alongside - I can't have Genge captain when he's yet to prove he's the best scrummager we can pick.

I feel like he may have one more RWC in him too if managed correctly through the cycle.

Also think when he has captained Sarries, his performance was been more mature, but still high.
The shouting and holering stops and he focuses on his actions.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Genge is going to be a cert with Marler retiring.
He captained Tigers under Borthwick

Kinda feel like it's an easy 1 year call for Borthwick

Will be interesting to see how it goes
My feeling is a team of
1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole
4. Martin
5. Itoje
6. Chessum
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Mitchell
10. Ford
11. Watson
12. Tuilagi
13. Lawrence
14. Arundell
15. Steward

16. LCD, 17. Rodd, 18. Stuart, 19. Hill, 20. Pearson, 21. Spencer, 22. M.Smith, 23. Freeman

Probably a fair view but depressing in areas. We need two decent young wings and a new FB and we need to try a new 12 but we can't do it all I guess.

And some new props, oh and a new 6.

 

[Geordie]

Sleightholme should begin the equation....if he stays fit and how he played last weekend. He's a cracking player

What's wrong with Steward...hes played very well for the tigers...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Sleightholme should begin the equation....if he stays fit and how he played last weekend. He's a cracking player

What's wrong with Steward...hes played very well for the tigers...

Steward was excellent, but we do need depth behind him also

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Genge is going to be a cert with Marler retiring.
He captained Tigers under Borthwick

Kinda feel like it's an easy 1 year call for Borthwick

Will be interesting to see how it goes
My feeling is a team of
1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole
4. Martin
5. Itoje
6. Chessum
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Mitchell
10. Ford
11. Watson
12. Tuilagi
13. Lawrence
14. Arundell
15. Steward

16. LCD, 17. Rodd, 18. Stuart, 19. Hill, 20. Pearson, 21. Spencer, 22. M.Smith, 23. Freeman

Martin is an injury concern as well as Earl who should but obviously is not certain to be back in time.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Itoje isn't going to Captain the side, he hasn't even been named one of those nebulous VCs since he graduated from some ******* Vauxhall model in 2017. That's cool with me, if he wants to concentrate on his game then I'm 100% for it.

Give it to Curry.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

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Who's let cmac change his name *AGAIN* to camouflage the fact he's actually Squidge