Aviva Premiership 15/16 - Round 19

[ratsapprentice]

Taylor is better and more consistent.

It's this sort of delusional myopic bull**** that has lead to players like Ashton being picked.

You are the problem.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Wilson gets gougy, Kruis goes all Suarez and bloody Ashton scores two tries.

Bath Sarries should never have happened.

 

[FLOBALOB]

Just his throwing IMO, and the issues surrounding it are much exaggerated imo.

Got to agree with you there, I don't know why a lot of people pick on his throwing as a major problem ,yet seem oblivious to all his positives. I think it may come from a few dodgy throws in a WC warm up game when he was bound to be nervous (his debut I think).
I saw a stat on Saturday saying Exeter had second best line-out stats this season, and they were 20/20 against worcs so it cant be that bad.
LCD is far superior in the loose than Hartley, shown by making 30/40 yards in a clean break at a speed that would have put some backs to shame. He can certainly motor.
There was certainly nothing wrong with his hooking on Saturday either.
The next few weeks could start to show everyone how far he's come.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's this sort of delusional myopic bull**** that has lead to players like Ashton being picked.

You are the problem.

100% correct, though.

Ashton's not better than the alternatives whereas TT is probably the 2nd best hooker in the country (behind George).
On form LCD is as good as good as Taylor (worse setpiece but better carrier) but his form is more up and down, and his throwing is....erratic.
EJ wants a strong set piece and TT is easily the better of the two at scrum and LO.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Harry Thacker for England 2.

(Obs when he has finished growing to around 6ft).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Harry Thacker for England 2.

(Obs when he has finished growing to around 6ft).

Stick him in the backrow and then have him as our main lineout jumper.
Imagine how high our props could launch him! The hooker just needs to the throw the ball basically vertically and Thacker can catch it 20ft up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Stick him in the backrow and then have him as our main lineout jumper.
Imagine how high our props could launch him! The hooker just needs to the throw the ball basically vertically and Thacker can catch it 20ft up.

Is this a revolutionary new lineout strategy? Kyle Eastmond into the lineout then! Maybe even have a lineout jumper and that jumper can then hoist Eastmond even higher?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Send Alex Goode up and get the other team sent off.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Stick him in the backrow and then have him as our main lineout jumper.
Imagine how high our props could launch him! The hooker just needs to the throw the ball basically vertically and Thacker can catch it 20ft up.

We used to do something similar with one of our props who was about 5'10", very strong but quite light. Our locks could pretty much get him into orbit. Shame he couldn't catch.

All this talk of LCD etc for now is all about who wears 16. For those who knock Hartley, he is a John Smit lite - not necessarily the best hooker, but brings a lot of intangibles to the party. From what we've seen over a few months with England and over several years with Saints, players respond to him. He reflects the attitude the coach wants, has 70 caps and a GS under his belt. He ain't going anywhere in a hurry.

It's not all about the bleep test or yardage stats.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think the bleep test means something different to Hartley though :lol:

 

[j'nuh]

It's this sort of delusional myopic bull**** that has lead to players like Ashton being picked.

Eh? Ashton earned his place in 2010/2011 on the account that no one could run a support line even close to what he could. The try stats speak for themselves. 39 tries in 25 games in Division One 2007-8. 22 tries in 26 games in the Premiership/HC and Premiership player of the year in 2009-10. 11 in 19 in 2010-11. 15 tries in his first 18 England games, in 2010 and 2011.

What happened to him in 2012, around the time he confirmed his move to Sarries, I really don't know. But his try scoring plummeted for England (and Saints). 2012-14, his try record was 4 in 20 for England. You could probably blame Lancaster's restrictive game plan which meant wingers couldn't do any roaming, in part. May was similarly scoring tries for fun for Gloucester, but failed to get a good tally for England. But I'm not convinced that that is the full picture, because Ashton's try scoring dried up a while at club level too.

Still, there was nothing short-sighted about Ashton's inclusion in England. He was once well worth his spot.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's not his early selection I was referring to... it's the continual selection under Lancaster, and the selection by Eddie.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Flood Ahston combo.

Pretty unstoppable.

Mainly the flood bit.

#Nobiased

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Eh? Ashton earned his place in 2010/2011 on the account that no one could run a support line even close to what he could. The try stats speak for themselves. 39 tries in 25 games in Division One 2007-8. 22 tries in 26 games in the Premiership/HC and Premiership player of the year in 2009-10. 11 in 19 in 2010-11. 15 tries in his first 18 England games, in 2010 and 2011.

What happened to him in 2012, around the time he confirmed his move to Sarries, I really don't know. But his try scoring plummeted for England (and Saints). 2012-14, his try record was 4 in 20 for England. You could probably blame Lancaster's restrictive game plan which meant wingers couldn't do any roaming, in part. May was similarly scoring tries for fun for Gloucester, but failed to get a good tally for England. But I'm not convinced that that is the full picture, because Ashton's try scoring dried up a while at club level too.

Still, there was nothing short-sighted about Ashton's inclusion in England. He was once well worth his spot.

Good post. Although Ashton has scored quite heavily at Sarries, I actually think it was a bad move for him. His point of difference was his support running and popping up in unexpected places - Sarries game plan is more rigid so he's become much more of a finisher than a creator. If you want someone to bash straight up and down and have great tackle stats he was never your man, but he did offer something unique - is it down to conservative coaching that that's disappeared?

 

[ncurd]

Have to say after the match on Friday despite his brace I struggle to think of anything Ashton did of note.

 

[Maverick1987]

Have to say after the match on Friday despite his brace I struggle to think of anything Ashton did of note.

If Eddie picks him he will have to be very good for England . I highly doubt Eddie will put up with half the crap Lancaster did .....