Australia vs England - 3 Tests - June 2016

[Which Tyler]

Is he related to the Aussie great - Mark Ella?

Twin brother; basically a career coach who played a bit in his day.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Scrum with our Glen Ella Ella Ella

 

[Peat]

Agreed. I hope I'm proved wrong, but I'm similarly sceptical. I feel a bit of deja vu, he's torn up trees in the 6N before only to fail to produce on a similar level at other times of the year.

I have no no doubts over Vunipola's individual talent level as opposed to their tackling level.

My doubts fall squarely on England's ability to create good enough ball to let him make headway, rather than running into three people, and then take advantage of what he does and make him look good, rather than recycle into another three people which makes him look pointless.

A good ruck clear out and another carrier as good as him will be huge imo. Without them, he hasn't got a hope. A good ruck clearout and Itoje and Tuilagi available, and we're cooking.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Guess I see the wider roaming style of Read and Parisse as the template for the best 8s these days and I just don't see Binny in that way. He's also not a line out option.

Have been a bit disappointed by Hughes since injury, but guess he'll bounce back. Would love to see Morgan properly back in the mix too. But I wonder if Beaumont might be the wild card in all this. Suppose it all depends on the balance with the flankers and the style we want to play - while Eddie did what it took to win the GS, I think he's smart enough to realise that we won't be able to bludgeon our way to a RWC.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Better service from those rucks too, and we're starting to go somewhere.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Guess I see the wider roaming style of Read and Parisse as the template for the best 8s these days and I just don't see Binny in that way. He's also not a line out option.

Have been a bit disappointed by Hughes since injury, but guess he'll bounce back. Would love to see Morgan properly back in the mix too. But I wonder if Beaumont might be the wild card in all this. Suppose it all depends on the balance with the flankers and the style we want to play - while Eddie did what it took to win the GS, I think he's smart enough to realise that we won't be able to bludgeon our way to a RWC.

I really want to see Beaumont get done international game time as he looks like our read. But then what do we do with Billy? Play him at 6? Bench him

We have some serious decisions to make for the next few years

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I really want to see Beaumont get done international game time as he looks like our read. But then what do we do with Billy? Play him at 6? Bench him

Interesting question. The trend is towards the more athletic all rounder and Binny could find himself quite a way down the pecking order.

Left field, but I wonder if he might be persuaded to do a Sheridan? He's more conventionally prop shaped than his brother and seems to have a lot more natural strength. If he could become a competent scrummager (ie better than Mako) that power coming from the front row would be a huge asset for any team.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm pretty sure I read, somewhere, that when they were growing up that Binny was a prop and Mako a back rower.

I think it'd be way too late in the day to make the switch, though. He's also a world class 8, so I wouldn't want it anyway.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd imagine billy did play a fair bit in the front row as a younger.... he was well over 150kg, mind.

 

[Peat]

I would hesitate to call Billy a World Class no 8 but hesitate a hell of a lot more to recommend he's used as a prop.

What happens in our back row is a really interesting question and I don't have any particularly strong feelings either way as long as it's something that works.

That said, I see a lot of potential in sticking one incredibly strong back rower (Vunipola or Ewers) in tandem with a very athletically blessed back rower (Beaumont, Clifford). I don't care which of them plays 6 and which of them plays 8 (or even 7 depending), or whether they switch scrum positions on attack and defence, or what, but that's a very hard combo to defend against and offers just about everything other than extreme breakdown ability. So I see no reason why Vunipola and Beaumont can't play together and I don't see Billy going anywhere unless someone proves they're better than him. If they do, we all win.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So I see no reason why Vunipola and Beaumont can't play together and I don't see Billy going anywhere unless someone proves they're better than him. If they do, we all win.

Except Billy.

I wouldn't want to lose what he brings, just not sure its going to fit the future back row model. Suspect a change isn't remotely on the radar although Big Ted was in his 20s before he switched.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

To be fair to Billy, he can be an athletic 8 too. Not to the same degree as Read but he is a LOT fitter than he used to be. Look at the amount of work he put in in the 6N, I don't think we have to worry about him not having enough in the tank. A lot of that work was hard yards in traffic too. I wouldn't recommend we try to do what Lancaster did though and absolutely hammer fitness so much that it actually works against them, just let him naturally progress to a fitter role.

I think the main issue for England is still speed and efficiency of everything about the breakdown. It was vastly improved last 6N but we are still too slow to the breakdown and not great at clearing out. If we get that sorted and then get a 9 who can give reliable service, I think the rest of England will begin to click into place. Itoje is definitely part of that solution and Underhill looks like he could be another part of it. LCD has performed well at the breakdown too and Billy can be quite good.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Taylor is comfortably better than LCD at the breakdown (and the lineout, and hooking).
With George out injured TT should really be in the 16 shirt in Aus.

 

[Peat]

Except Billy.

I wouldn't want to lose what he brings, just not sure its going to fit the future back row model. Suspect a change isn't remotely on the radar although Big Ted was in his 20s before he switched.

I can't believe I'm saying this of all people, but trust Eddie. We're not going to lose what Billy brings unless we get a model that's so much better we don't care. You're fretting over nothing (unless it turns out Eddie is an incompetent).

 

[johnmac99]

Taylor is comfortably better than LCD at the breakdown (and the lineout, and hooking).
With George out injured TT should really be in the 16 shirt in Aus.

George plays for Sarries today v Worcs..

Not saying you're wrong about Taylor, but does he play for Sale perchance?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Underhill looking good again vs Ulster.

The lad really is a talent, continuing to look at least as good as Itoje did at the same age.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

George plays for Sarries today v Worcs..

Not saying you're wrong about Taylor, but does he play for Sale perchance?

Not as of about half hour ago.
I've never understood the hype around LCD - doesn't do anything noticeably better than the alternatives. Think his stock benefits massively from playing for Exeter (everyone's 2nd fave club) and being in the JWC winning side.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not as of about half hour ago.
I've never understood the hype around LCD - doesn't do anything noticeably better than the alternatives. Think his stock benefits massively from playing for Exeter (everyone's 2nd fave club) and being in the JWC winning side.

Absolute ********.

And of course he benefits from being in the first winning JWC side... he was outstanding in that competition, and benefits from that in the same way that players such as Nowell, Slade, Itoje and Watson have done.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Not as of about half hour ago.
I've never understood the hype around LCD - doesn't do anything noticeably better than the alternatives. Think his stock benefits massively from playing for Exeter (everyone's 2nd fave club) and being in the JWC winning side.

100% this.

 

[McTallshort]

Is he as good as Jamie George? No