All Blacks squad for the Lions named on the 8th... predictions?

[Larksea]

individual circumstances really. maybe Piutau hadn't fully established himself in the squad but he was in great form, had been developing for some time as a prospect and seemed to be realising his potential and for the first 2015 tests where he got a run he was an absolute standout. Including that game in South Aftica where his performance was easily the difference.

its also worth noting that it wasn't just that Piutau signed overseas. It was the manner of how it all happened.
My understanding is that Piutau met and negotiated with the NZRU and seemed to come to an agreement and both sides were happy. Piutau went away and all that was left was for him to sign up. NZRU believed they had secured him and that he was happy. But it seems Charles had a contract slipped under his door at the last minute and without talking to the NZRU he signed it, and the NZRU found out through the media. And Hansen in particular wasn't happy about how that all played out.

I think Charlie Faumuina is being underestimated. He will leave a hole that will be tough to fill. I've no doubt that he will be selected for the lions despite signing overseas. The crazy thing is he signed overseas over a year ago I think? The selectors continued to select him last year knowing he would leave NZ this year.

IMO when you plan/devalop for the future what are you planning for?
The answer is world cups and lions tours. The selectors aren't going to drop TKB, Cruden or Faumuina in the interest of developing new talent. This is a lions tour they will select the best because we need to win!

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

individual circumstances really. maybe Piutau hadn't fully established himself in the squad but he was in great form, had been developing for some time as a prospect and seemed to be realising his potential and for the first 2015 tests where he got a run he was an absolute standout. Including that game in South Aftica where his performance was easily the difference.

its also worth noting that it wasn't just that Piutau signed overseas. It was the manner of how it all happened.
My understanding is that Piutau met and negotiated with the NZRU and seemed to come to an agreement and both sides were happy. Piutau went away and all that was left was for him to sign up. NZRU believed they had secured him and that he was happy. But it seems Charles had a contract slipped under his door at the last minute and without talking to the NZRU he signed it, and the NZRU found out through the media. And Hansen in particular wasn't happy about how that all played out.

I think Charlie Faumuina is being underestimated. He will leave a hole that will be tough to fill. I've no doubt that he will be selected for the lions despite signing overseas. The crazy thing is he signed overseas over a year ago I think? The selectors continued to select him last year knowing he would leave NZ this year.

IMO when you plan/devalop for the future what are you planning for?
The answer is world cups and lions tours. The selectors aren't going to drop TKB, Cruden or Faumuina in the interest of developing new talent. This is a lions tour they will select the best because we need to win!

Absolutely 100% agree. Developing for the future should not and is not a main priority for a Lions tour, especially if it means sacrificing the quality of the squad. I'm confident guys will be selected purely on the merit of what they offer the squad for THIS series, not on what their future holds
And I'd put the bank on the fact that Faumuiina will be selected. Hell, he's even making a case for the starting spot at this point, have we seen how he's been playing?? He's a massive asset to the squad and, as Larksea said, will be hard to replace.

 

[mania]

i dont have a good argument for either of you. i believe what u guys say is right. however im not sure the selectors will see it that way.
in regards to faumuina, yeah he's a huge loss. is he irreplaceable? no. i do agree that circumstances are different to piutau.
however the spirit of the no o/s players, the way i interpret it, is against those that aren't part of the immediate future. so u weigh up whether you give it to someone who is going to serve the ABs for the next WC cycle or an encmbent that is soon to depart.
the lions however are extenuating circumstances and a once in a 12 year chance.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Just an updated view on this. There are still a lot of question marks around the midfield and wings. A lot of guys also still pending return from injury, so it's pretty hard to judge. Anyway, I'll put forward what I'd like to see and what I think we will see.

What I'd like to see:
9. Smith
10. Barrett
11. Lowe
12. Laumape / SBW
13. ALB
14. Milner-Skudder
15. Smith

What I think we'll see:
9. Smith
10. Barrett
11. Savea (could just as easily be Naholo)
12. Crotty
13. ALB
14. Dagg
15. Smith

 

[Penne Rara]

IMO Savea hasn't proved himself worthy to wear the 11 jersey. He can even be labelled as a potential liability due to his more than average ball handling, bad positioning on defense and the fact that he can't be relied on to catch high balls. When he's not given the ball, he won't inject himself in the game. That's kinda harsh, but he's not hungry enough to be an All Black at the moment.

A more convincing argument is that the ball won't be sent out wide very often against the Lions. You need astute wingers who can snipe at any moment through a hole, run clever angles and quick enough/have good hands to catch bombs, collect chip kicks and counter-attack at will. Savea is not that kind of winger. He is a pure product of the NZ brand of left wingers, strong and fast to bump defenders out of his sight...
But the Lions are big, very big, and they won't be fended away so easily

Lowe or Naholo are in outstanding form, and should be picked instead even if Lowe has already signed overseas.

 

[MarkyH]

Yo! New Zealanders.

Do you think this visiting Lions team is the hardest opposition you can get in your home country (games only in NZ) at the moment?

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Yo! New Zealanders.

Do you think this visiting Lions team is the hardest opposition you can get in your home country (games only in NZ) at the moment?

Yes.

 

[Larksea]

Yo! New Zealanders.

Do you think this visiting Lions team is the hardest opposition you can get in your home country (games only in NZ) at the moment?

I'm not sure, does the team get the time to bond and create a gameplan together to make them as strong or stronger than an established English team? Having the players is one thing, getting a gameplan and continuity is another..

maybe if the AB's win this series without any hiccups we should start a petition for the IRB to put together a world 15 to take on the AB's

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I'm not sure, does the team get the time to bond and create a gameplan together to make them as strong or stronger than an established English team? Having the players is one thing, getting a gameplan and continuity is another..

maybe if the AB's win this series without any hiccups we should start a petition for the IRB to put together a world 15 to take on the AB's

Hmm a combined non-NZ world xv to take on the ABs? I like the sound of that... The ABs would probs still be favourites lol. I do wonder what that side would look like though, it'd be an interesting selection... here's what I'd go with (I'm not fully up to date with the form of NH players so forgive any dumb selections lol):

1. M. Vunipola
2. R. Best
3. T. Furlong
4. M. Itoje
5. E. Etzebeth
6. S. Warburton
7. M. Hooper
8. B. Vunipola

9. C. Murray
10. J. Sexton
11. G. North
12. W. Fofana
13. S. Kerevi
14. I. Folau
15. S. Hogg

16. G. Guirado
17. J. McGrath
18. C. Baille
19. C. Lawes
20. L. Picamoles
21. B. Serin
22. O. Farrell
23. L. Williams

 

[TobesHodges]

If it was all done on form.. WIERD team!!

9. Kerr Barlow
10. Richie Mounga
11. James Lowe
12. Ngani Laumape
13. Jack Goodhue
14. George Bridge
15. Smith / Mackenzie / J.Barrett

Form Forwards:

1. Wyatt Crockett
2. Ricitelli
3. Charlie Fumuiana
4. Whitelock / Abbott
5. Rettalick / Scrafton
6. Mitchell Brown
7. Ardie Savea
8. Messam / Taufua

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

If it was all done on form.. WIERD team!!

9. Kerr Barlow
10. Richie Mounga
11. James Lowe
12. Ngani Laumape
13. Jack Goodhue
14. George Bridge
15. Smith / Mackenzie / J.Barrett

I agree with these picks, except I'd have TJ at halfback. And Dmac is definitely the form FB. The concerning thing is that almost certainly none of the current form players are likely to be in the starting side. Some of our stars need to start stepping up...

 

[Ground We Won]

I like the idea of dropping Cruden, I'm actually hoping not to see him this season. I mentioned earlier he's off and away at the end of the year. I think it's kind of pointless to persist with him. It's a good chance to develop guys who will be playing at 2019.

I'm expecting him to play in the Lions tour, because of his experience and we need to win that more than anything else this year, but after that, I think it's time to give other players an opportunity and I'd like to see him dropped. Preferably I'd like to see him dropped before we play the Lions. His kicking is abysmal and other players can step into the role he has with ball in hand anyway. But I really doubt he will be dropped for the tour, simply because we need that experience, but I wouldn't count on him to kick a last minute penalty from any part of the park.

As much as I've valued Cruden over the years I think it's time to move on.

Sopoaga, Mo'Unga, McKenzie and J.Barrett look more than capable of stepping up.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I still value Cruden enough as a player to think he deserves to be there. But he definitely made the right call to leave, because I wouldn't see him holding his spot much longer. For the Lions series, I think he definitely should be there. He is still a quality player and his experience is valuable. Having a young debutant in that position in the toughest and most important series there is wouldn't be the smartest move. Post the Lions though, I would love to see Mounga blooded. He's an awesome player. Realistically it won't come until the EOY tour though, I don't think Cruden will be dropped for the RC, and it would be wrong for him to be imo. Mounga could possibly overtake Sopoaga though, just depends on how they play from here on out. Based on the weekend's evidence Sopoaga will probably hold his spot.

The squad is gonna be 33 strong, which will presumably mean an 18/15 split. This is who I'd personally pick (certainly not who I think they'll pick)...

Halfbacks: Smith, Perenara, TKB. - Pretty straight-forward.

1st Fives: Beaudy, Cruden - It's only a 3 match series and with DMac in the squad, a 3rd specialist 1st 5 is unnecessary.

Centers: SBW, ALB, Crotty, Fekitoa - I so badly wanted to pick Laumape, but there's only room for to 2nd fives, and Crotty and SBW basically pick themselves. They are experienced, proven and, by the time the first test comes, should be playing well. That being said, I would not be displeased if either of them were dropped for Laumape. Was a shootout between Fekitoa and Moala for back up center - ALB definitely starts for me. Though I'm not a Fekitoa fan, he does deserve to be there; He's got more experience in the ABs environment and his style would probs suit a Lions test. He's also in decent form. But if Moala outplays him between now and the series, then I'd Have him instead.

Back Three: Bender, Savea, McKenzie, Dagg, NMS, Lowe. Other than Bender, all these picks are probably debatable. I strongly believe Lowe deserves to be there. I don't care that he's going overseas, he's the best winger in the country right now. Savea just edged Naholo because I think Savea is a slightly better player than Naholo and is definitely more experienced and proven in the black jersey. Again though, he needs to step up (he was good vs the Bulls), and depending on form between now and the series I might take Naholo instead. McKenzie has been way too good to ignore. He also covers 1st five, thus freeing up another squad spot. Dagg and NMS I have picked on the assumption that they return to full fitness and form. Dagg is more of an assured pick, NMS is really just a hopeful one. The Canes have 3 games before the 1st test. If he can play well in all of them then he gets in for me, because he is such a quality player. If that doesn't happen though, which there's a very good chance it won't, then Naholo's in instead.

 

[Ground We Won]

Looks pretty good, but you're always very harsh on Highlanders players, still hurting from 2015?

Lowe's been terrific, but he has no future in the side and Naholo has played well enough to make sure he will get selected over him.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Looks pretty good, but you're always very harsh on Highlanders players, still hurting from 2015?

Not entirely wrong there mate!

Lowe's been terrific, but he has no future in the side and Naholo has played well enough to make sure he will get selected over him.

Yea like I said, this is who I'd pick, not who I think they will pick. I'm sure Naholo will be there and Lowe won't too. It really is such a shame he's leaving. So young, so talented, so deserving of a spot. I'd pick him ahead of Savea and Naholo in a heartbeat. Shag and co. obviously won't though.

 

[Ground We Won]

Yeah, he's a very good player and would comfortably make any other international side in the world, but I don't think he's better than NMS, Naholo and Savea personally. Savea is surviving a little on reputation though, but can't deny the mans finishing abilities, particularly in a black shirt. He's one player that definitely raises his games in an All Black shirt.

Naholo and Savea are really explosive and capable of finishing from unlikely scenarios, very difficult to stop with a head of steam, I think they make the line more than Lowe in 1v1 situations and 1v2 situations. Lowe is a very good opportunist and uses his initiative well and reads the game excellently though. Definitely a huge loss, the guy has to make as much money as possible with what little he has left in his career with his arthritis sadly, hope he makes a good buck overseas, he deserves it.

 

[Penne Rara]

I'll have a crack

If fit:

9 A. Smith
10 B. Barrett
11 Lowe
12 Crotty
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Milner-Skudder
15 B. Smith

with currently injured players in red

If not fit:

9 A. Smith
10 A. Cruden
11 Lowe
12 Lienert-Brown
13 Fekitoa
14 Dagg
15 B. Smith

What the backline is likely to look like if the players in red are cleared to play:

9 A. Smith
10 B. Barrett
11 J. Savea
12 Crotty
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Naholo
15 B. Smith

Bench:

What I'd like to see

21 Perenara
22 Cruden
23 J. Barrett

A more balanced bench

21 Perenara
22 Fekitoa
23 Mckenzie

if players in red are not fit

21 Perenara
22 Sopoaga
23 Moala

 

[mania]

Interestingly no chat about Vince Aso. He's been slicing through defences this season, can cover multiple positions (both centres, both wings) and is only 22.

putting forward a bolter in laumape is a big enough call, having 2 bolters? unheard of
but aso does need to be up there but i reckon laumape just edges aso as a mid fielder.
definately ahead of SBW, but then i was against SBW being in the 2015 WC squad and he definitely delievered then.
whilst i'd prefer laumape i'm at ease with SBW cos he's a proven big game player.
i'd rather see mounga or sopoaga instead of cruden. big call i know
and naholo ahead of jSavea,
either way ABs will be well served by any of these guys getting the start.

 

[ianw16]

I will put my whatsits on the line; the Lions will not have a backline capable of dealing with the ABs backline. It is as simple as that. If Gatland has got any idea at all, he will go for total forward domination. Which won't work. However, it has more chance of working than trying to go toe to toe with the ABs in the backline. That way lies some sort of horrendous stuff. IMO 3 - 0 ABs. Well done to the Lions if they don't get stuffed 3 - 0. And lose to the Crusaders. And others. Etc, etc. If they end up with a winning record from the tour I will be somewhat surprised. They will not win, or get close to winning, a test match.

 

[Ground We Won]

Yeah, he's a very good player and would comfortably make any other international side in the world, but I don't think he's better than NMS, Naholo and Savea personally. Savea is surviving a little on reputation though, but can't deny the mans finishing abilities, particularly in a black shirt. He's one player that definitely raises his games in an All Black shirt.

Naholo and Savea are really explosive and capable of finishing from unlikely scenarios, very difficult to stop with a head of steam, I think they make the line more than Lowe in 1v1 situations and 1v2 situations. Lowe is a very good opportunist and uses his initiative well and reads the game excellently though. Definitely a huge loss, the guy has to make as much money as possible with what little he has left in his career with his arthritis sadly, hope he makes a good buck overseas, he deserves it.

I forgot to mention Reiko Ioane as well. I would also select him over James Lowe.