[2017 Super Rugby] The FINAL: Lions vs. Crusaders (05/08/2017)

[Zapphod]

All the laws refer to an opponent. It is however Illegal to lift your own player and drop them in an unsafe manner.

To me, it goes to the philosophy of rugby refereeing. It's not to call every ticky tacky thing and be an authoritarian. It's to be a mediator that provides a safe and fair match between the two sides and an exciting ones for neutrals. If two idiots on the same team wanna go after each other that's their own problem and their punishment is having a team that will fall apart. I'm not there to mediate team disputes, I'm there to mediate between the two teams.

Surely that indicates that it really isnt about player safety, the risks are the same no matter who tips up who.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

How come the Lions got through the entire season (apart from the Semi) without playing a single NZ team?

 

[unrated]

How come the Lions got through the entire season (apart from the Semi) without playing a single NZ team?

It's because the NZRU struck a deal with Saru for their teams to avoid playing the two best SA sides this year.
They are heavy on player welfare these days and that was the best solution to the problem faced by the New Zealand teams. It worked wonders and the number of injuries in the 5. NZ franchises declined with 89%.
You really have to appreciate the tremendous vision that SANZAAR had to protect the players.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

So the NZ teams didn't play the best two SA teams?

 

[JohnKA]

Haha this comment XD well done !!

It's because the NZRU struck a deal with Saru for their teams to avoid playing the two best SA sides this year.
They are heavy on player welfare these days and that was the best solution to the problem faced by the New Zealand teams. It worked wonders and the number of injuries in the 5. NZ franchises declined with 89%.
You really have to appreciate the tremendous vision that SANZAAR had to protect the players.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

Seems to me likes it's absolute corruption?

 

[TRF_heineken]

@smartcooky, will you please look at this video at about the 20 second mark. In regards to the first try the Crusaders scored:



Now, to me it seems like the ball popped out at the Crusaders side, then hit the Saders 9's foot, went forward, hit another Saders player and then went to Tamanivalu, who was in front of 9 when he "kicked" the ball.

Isn't this supposed to have been a penalty to the Lions?

By the way, how good was that hit by Kieran Read??

 

[The Jones Boy]

That hit by Read was sweet. He fairly belted the first five.
I didn't see the issues you were talking about though.
I'm not saying it didn't happen.
It just happened to quick for me to see it.
Perhaps if it was in slo-mo I'd catch it.

 

[mania]

Isn't this supposed to have been a penalty to the Lions?

sorry cookie i dont see it either cos from that footage a few bodies are in the way. if what you say is true then yes you'd be right. but u cant blame the refs for their ruling at real time. it happens real quick and looks pretty straight forward. dropped forward by lions regathered by the saders and scored.

reads hit was good

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

@smartcooky, will you please look at this video at about the 20 second mark. In regards to the first try the Crusaders scored:



Now, to me it seems like the ball popped out at the Crusaders side, then hit the Saders 9's foot, went forward, hit another Saders player and then went to Tamanivalu, who was in front of 9 when he "kicked" the ball.

Isn't this supposed to have been a penalty to the Lions?

By the way, how good was that hit by Kieran Read??

that's a pretty good observation

would have been crusaders scrum since they had advantage

if no advantage should be accidental offside... ball kicked into player with no chance of avoiding it, player who then plays it next is onside

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Agreed, good spot! Completely missed it.

 

[Larksea]

I spotted it live and it certainly looks like the kind of play that if you wanted to go back and play it in slow motion you could easily find something wrong technically.

 

[smartcooky]

@smartcooky, will you please look at this video at about the 20 second mark. In regards to the first try the Crusaders scored:



Now, to me it seems like the ball popped out at the Crusaders side, then hit the Saders 9's foot, went forward, hit another Saders player and then went to Tamanivalu, who was in front of 9 when he "kicked" the ball.

Isn't this supposed to have been a penalty to the Lions?

Firstly, its hard to say whether it actually hit a Crusaders player directly, or glanced off a Lions rucker first. There is no camera angle showing it from behind the Crusaders side of the ruck (which is what we really need)

Secondly, Even if it didn't hit a Lions rucker first, the Crusaders player in front didn't play at the ball, so its not a penalty, its accidental offside. Scrum Lions

Thirdly, it happens so fast (like pinball) that all the officials missed it (not clear and obvious), and that is backed up by the fact that it has taken nearly six days before anyone has noticed.

ETA:

I've just looked at it in youtube using the super slow-motion setting.

The ball cannons off the front leg of Bryn Hall, sideways onto the back leg of Ryan Crotty who is slightly in front. The ball doesn't obviously go forwards from the first player, so its a tough call to say this is offside. Imagine a situation where a player offloads the ball from way out in front of him, and the ball travels backwards or flat to a player who is slightly ahead of him but who has to reach back to catch it. You'd be a real jobsworth if you called that offside.

NOTE 1. Tamanivalu may have been slightly ahead of Hall, but Hall wasn't the last team-mate to play the ball, Crotty was, and Tamanivalu definitely wasn't ahead of him.

NOTE 2. The nearside AR has a perfect view of the whole thing. He was in line with the two Crusaders players. That is South African referee Marius van der Westhuiizen who is well known for sticking his oar in at the slightest provocation. He says nothing.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I missed this at the time, apologies if everyone already seen it. Hopefully Steve Hansen gives it a crack after the Rugby Championship.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Oh dear.
John Travolta will be worried.
Hansen not so much.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Firstly, its hard to say whether it actually hit a Crusaders player directly, or glanced off a Lions rucker first. There is no camera angle showing it from behind the Crusaders side of the ruck (which is what we really need)

Secondly, Even if it didn't hit a Lions rucker first, the Crusaders player in front didn't play at the ball, so its not a penalty, its accidental offside. Scrum Lions

Thirdly, it happens so fast (like pinball) that all the officials missed it (not clear and obvious), and that is backed up by the fact that it has taken nearly six days before anyone has noticed.

ETA:

I've just looked at it in youtube using the super slow-motion setting.

The ball cannons off the front leg of Bryn Hall, sideways onto the back leg of Ryan Crotty who is slightly in front. The ball doesn't obviously go forwards from the first player, so its a tough call to say this is offside. Imagine a situation where a player offloads the ball from way out in front of him, and the ball travels backwards or flat to a player who is slightly ahead of him but who has to reach back to catch it. You'd be a real jobsworth if you called that offside.

NOTE 1. Tamanivalu may have been slightly ahead of Hall, but Hall wasn't the last team-mate to play the ball, Crotty was, and Tamanivalu definitely wasn't ahead of him.

NOTE 2. The nearside AR has a perfect view of the whole thing. He was in line with the two Crusaders players. That is South African referee Marius van der Westhuiizen who is well known for sticking his oar in at the slightest provocation. He says nothing.

Thanx for the explanation Cooky! Makes perfect sense as you explain it. I can put this to bed and move on.