[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: France vs England (22/08/2015)

[luke1994]

I might be missing something here, but why do we seemingly have to take 3 scrum-halves? I'd drop one and take Cipriani.

 

[Wendigo7]

i'm not sure on that. his tactical kicking is long and he would have got us over the gain line with the simpler one out style.

We need to move Luther B back to 13, he is not gelling with Joseph (though i thought he went ok tonight), it's Brad B & Burgess at 12 and JJ or Luther B at 13.

Slade won't make the cut, if he doe sit will be for Burgess.

Lets not get it twisted, the pack was awful, and ford suffered from that. We really have an issue when we come back from the summer with generating quick ball - every autumn it's the same and we normally shale it by the 6 Nations, but (moving back to ford) even behind a beaten pack you want a 10 who looks assured and looks like he knows what his decisions are.

i didn't see that in Ford today, didn't see it in the irland game and didn't see it in the prem final.

I didn't see Farrell look good in 30-3 either, or in the 2014 France game.

Or the shambles against South Africa, or NZ. I could carry on quite a bit actually.

That being said, screw the backs I'm sick and tired of talking about the backs. The forwards are the sole and premiery issue here and the possession. We hardly ever have much ball in matches. We can't pilfer ball, we don't have much ball but when we do we look dangerous. Our set pieces is shocking at the moment. France had the calls all game and did us a cropper. There's only so much blame on half backs, on the t discipline when you have no ball.

We need far more possession and need to tidy the set piece up quickly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agreed ford goes missing when not with go forward pack bug I don't think he'll get better by not playing those games and hoping he'll learn it at club level (he will in time get better at these games). Which is why I'd give him one more chance vs Ireland but he REALLY needs to step up in that game.

I can agree with that, especially as the Ireland game is "only" a "friendly".
My main issue with Ford going missing is that Lancaster doesn't trust Cipriani.
vs Ireland: Ford has a poor game, Cipriani is on the bench and isn't used.
Tonight: Ford is poor, Cipriani comes on at 60 odd minutes at fullback, with the fullback moving to wing.

Why won't Lancaster give him a shot at 10? Is he scared he's going to have to rethink dropping him?

 

[The Jones Boy]

i'm not sure on that. his tactical kicking is long and he would have got us over the gain line with the simpler one out style.

We need to move Luther B back to 13, he is not gelling with Joseph (though i thought he went ok tonight), it's Brad B & Burgess at 12 and JJ or Luther B at 13.

Slade won't make the cut, if he doe sit will be for Burgess.

Lets not get it twisted, the pack was awful, and ford suffered from that. We really have an issue when we come back from the summer with generating quick ball - every autumn it's the same and we normally shale it by the 6nations, but (movign back to ford) even behind a beaten pack you want a 10 who looks assured and looks like he knows what his decisions are.

i dind't see that in Ford today, didn't see it in the irland game and didn't see it in the prem final.

Fairplay, his first half was forgettable, but I didn't see anyone else putting up their hands in the first half either. England were woeful in the first 40 as a collective.
In the first 40 I thought he looked a bit like Hardy would have looked if Nelson had have copped it at the beginning of the Battle of Trafalgar instead of at the death. He did look out of his depth but these guys learn a LOT more from these stumbling blocks than they learn from an easy go forward possession game. I've seen Farrell look very ordinary when the English pack was not getting it's own way.
I rate Farrell as a great young talent but he's one for the future. Or as a stand in if Ford gets hammered.

 

[ncurd]

On a side note, when was the last time Cole had a decent game. Constant infringements and hasn't been dominant in the scrum for a long while. Overrated at the breakdown too. When was the last time he secured a turn over. When was the last time any England player did for that matter.

I think I'm just ranting now.

the 6n? Seriously he was a standout player in the tournament for us...

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I thought Brown was pretty sharp- what was he doing wrong that more game time would fix? (Genuine question)

I think today, the replacements made the difference. Launchbury looked off the pace and Atwood did far better when he came on- but Launchbury has so much more to give, he just needs game time.
Wilson and Mako made a difference at scrum time, but I was most surprised by the impact Easter and Cipriani (wow) had.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I didn't see Farrell look good in 30-3 either, or in the 2014 France game.

Or the shambles against South Africa, or NZ. I could carry on quite a bit actually.

That being said, screw the backs I'm sick and tired of talking about the backs. The forwards are the sole and premiery issue here and the possession. We hardly ever have much ball in matches. We can't pilfer ball, we don't have much ball but when we do we look dangerous. Our set pieces is shocking at the moment. France had the calls all game and did us a cropper. There's only so much blame on half backs, on the t discipline when you have no ball.

We need far more possession and need to tidy the set piece up quickly.

Where have you been all night?
Excellent post, couldn't agree more.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

He was average at best.

 

[goodNumber10]

I didn't see Farrell look good in 30-3 either, or in the 2014 France game.

at the stade de france? he was excellent, what you on about?

Or the shambles against South Africa, or NZ. I could carry on quite a bit actually.

yep and he got DROPPED and then injured, had a good rest and came back in excellent form. But please do carry on with this glorious list of appalling performances.

I can name quite a few more for ford if you want.

That being said, screw the backs I'm sick and tired of talking about the backs. The forwards are the sole and premiery issue here and the possession. We hardly ever have much ball in matches. We can't pilfer ball, we don't have much ball but when we do we look dangerous. Our set pieces is shocking at the moment. France had the calls all game and did us a cropper. There's only so much blame on half backs, on the t discipline when you have no ball.

We need far more possession and need to tidy the set piece up quickly.

They are an issue, they are not the ONLY issue.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We need far more possession and need to tidy the set piece up quickly.

We need......Magnus Lund.
He'll smash people on the carry.
He'll smash people in the tackle.
He'll win lineout ball.
He'll win more turnovers than you can count.
He'll fight three men and not give a ****.
He's part Viking, part northern, all man.
#Justice7Maggie

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Now come on Tigs, we know your feelings toward Saints... ;-)

It isn't a saints things I think Waller is a better loose head TbH just like Heywood a better hooker than Hartley.


Also who asked when was the last time Cole had played well?!!?!?

I mean seriously has that person honestly watched an England game recently?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He was average at best.

Honestly what have you been smoking.

 

[goodNumber10]

Cipriani got MOTM (England fans vote, not actual motm)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We need......Magnus Lund.
He'll smash people on the carry.
He'll smash people in the tackle.
He'll win lineout ball.
He'll win more turnovers than you can count.
He'll fight three men and not give a ****.
He's part Viking, part northern, all man.
#Justice7Maggie

I remember last year when Lund, Braid, Beuamont and Seymour got turned over by a Leicester academy pack and Cole in the Lv cup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I might be missing something here, but why do we seemingly have to take 3 scrum-halves? I'd drop one and take Cipriani.

To be fair, I think you need three - or at least three who can play there (which is why Australia can manage, with Giteau able to step in in an emergency).

With only two then both have to play every game.
Say Youngs goes off after 20 vs Fiji with a rolled ankle - it hurts, but it'll be alright in two weeks, so you don't want to replace him completely - he's going to be involved next week, and if Care gets a knock to the head, or a cut, or an injury, then one legged Youngs is on.

 

[Wendigo7]

at the stade de france? he was excellent, what you on about?



yep and he got DROPPED and then injured, had a good rest and came back in excellent form. But please do carry on with this glorious list of appalling performances.

I can name quite a few more for ford if you want.



They are an issue, they are not the ONLY issue.

Going to the original point I do agree though GN10, I'm not defending Ford in any way shape or form. Thought he looked for 60 minutes a kid in headlights tonight and I was seriously thinking Farrell should really be playing instead. He has this way of kicking flat down field and I hate it, Jonny's had similar aspects to his kicking late on in his career to do it and I hated it. Just giving away easy possession. His kicks to touch were poor too. Goalkicking excellent. His decision making was poor because he should noticed France picking off the runners and just gone for it himself. When we went we were very dangerous, but alot of it was lacklustre off no ball.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Surely 10. Cips, 12. Farrell?

While Danny's defence has come on ridiculously well in the last year or so, I don't know about him at 12 in an international - couple that with the fact he's never played 12 at pro level, let alone international...

Quite right.

9. Care
10. Cips
11. Watson
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Nowell
15. Brown.

Looks good to me.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Edit for stupid repost.

 

[chippieolamus]

On the issue of 6, we need someone who can:
a) Shore up the lineout
b) Make plenty of tackles
c) Be a strong carrier
d) Be decent over the ball
Anyone got any ideas who fills this criteria (hint, he's young, and is currently doing pre-season with Sarries after being cut from the squad without being given a chance in a warm up).

 

[The Jones Boy]

Honestly what have you been smoking.

Hah Hah thats the second time you've made me laugh tonight.
Tigs, I hear you about Waller, I read an article on him a few days ago and he is shaping up but will it be in time for Lancaster to sway his thinking.
Heywood I'm not familiar with... but I'll take your word for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Quite right.

9. Care
10. Cips
11. Watson
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Nowell
15. Brown.

Looks good to me.

Farrell at 12????
What in the blue blazes have you been smoking son?
Change it to Burgess at 12 and I'll vote for that.