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Wales vs England - 13/08/2011 - RWC Warm Up

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Hape was awful and should be nowhere near the plane, ditto Banahan, he kept going into contact upright!


Agreed on that, after this performance neither of these two deserve to be on the plane. I'm still a bit miffed as to why Johnson picked these two originally. If I wanted some serious pace and scoring potential from the Bath squad playing for England I'd have taken Bendy and Barkley when they were fit (at least Barkley can distribute and kick well over Hape).

I saw a post on another forum saying that the poster thought Johnson was going to use Tindall as the scapegoat for the poor performances in much the same way Borthwick (who was pretty bad too boot) was sacrificed to the public.... might just be true, although the sheer lack of creativity and common sense shown by the England squad points ominously to coaching team and not just the players.

m0rris
 
That should finally (and permanently) silence the HMS Banahan and Hape apologisers. Also, interestingly, it's no co-incidence that Wales improved by 100 fold on the half-hour mark when Henson was removed from the game.


Normal service has been resumed.


All this bBS I've seen about Tuilagi being the answer to the problems is a million miles from reality. England need a good passing 9 who can boss the pack - Youngs can pass (when he's not buckling under pressure) but has no leadership whereas Care can rudder his pack but only ever snipes. Wigglesworth is a dirt tracker. Simpson or Dickson? Hell, getting Dawson or Gommersall out of mothballs may even be a shrewd move.


We need a 10 who can play and react to the game in front of him. Flood is immensely talented but lacks the mental capacity to change his gameplan. Hodgson seems to forget what he's doing when not in a Sale shirt. Geraghty was ruined when he was shoehorned in at centre 2 years ago. Myler is a squad player at best. Lamb is an unknown quantity who's well off the radar. Wilkinson is a spent force but seems to be the best we've got at the moment. With some luck Owen Farrell will come good- Sadly I suspect he'll be another of the over-hyped brigade.


Speaking of centres - Hape. There is an entire sport for talentless gym-monkeys with bugger all pace and blinkers. It's called rugby league. He should **** off back there. What does Anthony Allen need to do to get a chance?
For the 13 shirt, Tindall is pain in the backside - He never does much wrong, but he's not particularly good. That said, he's 1000x more reliable in defence then Leicesters' Polinesian female boxer. God only knows who the real answer is.


HMS Banahan well and truly showed himself for his abilities, therefore should never be allowed anywhere near a professional rugby pitch again unless he's bought a terrace ticket. Please please please please, if Ashton is not fit, give Sharples a chance MJ. Even if Ashton is fit, drop Cueto and give him a chance.


Foden still showed his class despite having minimal opportunity to even see the ball.


As for the pack - They were all excellent for the first half hour, then after that they were all @rse.
 
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I actually thought Henson was solid prior to his injury. For a small amount of time it looked like we had our dream center partnership together :p Agree with Gustgot, If Henson's injury isn't serious i can see him going to world cup :p

I hope we have a solid side out next week. Would like to see Shane play in his "Last" game at the Millenium Stadium next week :( :(
 
Don't need to say much, just like the old England, we've put in all the work upfront required to win a game of rugby and lost it through blunt backplay (and brilliant Welsh defence & flankplay)... If this were any normal test playing team, performances like that from Banahan and Hape in particular would have played themselves off the plane to New Zealand. As it is, I'd be highly surprised if Johnson doesn't take them.

I cannot understand England's centres. Flutey is a bit of an unknown quantity, since he can be class but only if fit and on form. But for the past two years, the two best teams in England have had the two best 12s in the premiership and they're both English-qualified.

Yet instead of giving Anthony Allen and Brad Barritt even an opportunity in the past year, what logic do we get?

We get a tour to Australia with England's number 12 being Shontayne Hape, a Kiwi and a recent convert from rugby league who's been playing quite well at 13 for one of the premiership's upper-mid table teams.

And despite having had one decent game there (Samoa), Hape continues to be picked. Who else has Johnson lined up for the 12 shirt, after 3 years in charge and with just one more game left before the world cup? Flutey, and, of course, England's very own Sonny Bill Williams - Matt Banahan. Another logical move here - a second row who can make it as a decent winger in the premiership so must naturally be able to play both 13 and 12 for England - despite not even being a good enough winger for test rugby.

All this, let's put it bluntly, stupidity in selection at 12, things might be OK if we had something special at 13. But no. We've tried Matthew Tait, but in a team that was told to kick at every opportunity. We've then tried Ayoola Erinle (remember him?), Dan Hipkiss, Jamie Noon, and Mike Tindall. Ouch. So we go into the world cup after three years of trying centre partnerships out, and the nation's hopes will be resting with a 20 year-old with one cap to his name. Of course, even though there was a chance to try out one of the few footballers in the squad (Armitage) at 13 yesterday when Tindall went off, he played wing and Banahan went to centre... Logical.

Since we must pick from the current squad, I'm suggesting a short-term fix, just for the world cup. It goes:

10. Wilkinson
12. Flood
13. Tuilagi

Wilkinson is capable of slowing a backline down, but he's also a potential matchwinner and benefits from having a ballplayer outside him.

Flood is a ballplayer, and is also experienced and a leader, and offers a second kicking option, and a better kicker out of hand than Jonny. Off form he may be but he's still a good player.

Tuilagi is quick, powerful, and has more of a rugby brain than anyone who's worn 13 for England since Greenwood wore it (ok, maybe Tait...).

Could work. If it did, it would require us certainly to bring a 3rd fly half. Shame that man's Charlie Hodgson.
 
What good would that do? The average age of a world cup winning team is 30+ and under Jonno this team is in the best place it has been for a long time.
I'm saying do that after this WC, then no-one'll be over 36 by '15.
 
One positive from the game, Flood has gone back to his old goal kick run-up.
 
Its the selection process that seriously needs examining. Its not Banahan and Hape's faults that they're sh*te, they were born to be bad. But at the risk of sounding overly reactionary if Martin Johnson cannot act upon the obvious problems and will not give deserving talent a chance - sharples, JSD, Robshaw, Allen, Baritt etc - then he should not be England manager. What is infuritating is that he does pick some of the right players, and sometimes that took a leap of faith in young talent on his part to go through with it, for example picking wood for the six nations. Also giving a tuilagi a chance last weekend. But there is absolutely no excuse for continuing to select players like Banahan and Hape. I though Tindall was ok by his standards yesterday, and at least he gives valuable experience and leadership.

But has anyone else noticed that things tend to fall apart when Moody isn't playing? I don't think thats down to him as a player so much as the personality and experience he brings but it might be also him as a player. I thought one of the disappointing things yesterday was wood's performance, fairly absent and didn't have much impact on the breakdown. I'm just really angry that Robshaw hasnt had a chance and by now its too late. hes not goign to throw him into the mix in the final warmup match.

On that front, I think MJ will go with familiarity against Ireland. I woudl expect something like 6) croft 7) Haskell 8) Easter, uninspiring though that may be.
Flutey should start at 12 against Ireland, and I have a feeling he will. I imagine Tindall will continue to be picked at 13 though obviously tuilagi would be better.

I don't think much is broken and in need of fixing in the front five, although we shoudl definitely remember that hartley is still first choice hooker and deservedly so, and we all know that palmer and lawes are our best two locks. id like to see both cole and stevens play together but thats nothing against corbisiero whatsoever.

I think half-backs will be better with youngs back, but i'm worried about 10 because wilkingson as GG said does slow us down. I'd like to see hodgson given more time, but i feel the boat has left on that one.

Next week I expect to see something like :

corbs
hartley
cole
palmer
lawes
croft
haskell
easter
care
wilko
cueto
flutey
tindall
ashton
foden
 
also, whats up with Faletau!? he has not been the same player that we saw in the magners this season.
 
I think Stevens will start vs Ireland - don't know which position, but I think he will
I think you've got the rest of the team spot on though,

Bench will probably be:

Thompson
Cole/Corbisiero (whichever Stevens isn't)
Deacon
Wood
Wigglesworth
Hodgson
Armitage
 
For me, MJ has to take a few more chances. Keep Tindle (not because of his abilities but for his leadership). Tulangi for Hape, Drop Banahan (Ashton returns) and use Delon.

There's no wonder the forwards stopped attacking the rucks in the 2nd half, why the **** would they put themselves out if the backs had no intention to act like backs and convert their hard work into points.

Banahan missed his try, which any world class wing would have nailed. Just ramming yourself forward is not good enough. Flood should have changed things around, Wilko did this nicely last week, switching play constantly and keeping the Welsh defence on its toes. Wilko is far superior at game management, even the knowledge that he can drop goal from anywahere keeps opponents thinking.

At around half time Eng had been in the Welsh 22 8 times! Wales has only two visits at this point.

Again there's a thinking on their feet problem. A bad scientist repeats the same experiment twice, expecting a different result. A REALLY bad scientist does it 8 freaking times. When in this position last week, Wilko understood nothing was on and delivered 6 points. But it's not just 6 points, now your opponent has an additional worry, that they must close down Wilko, which opens up opportunities for centre's and wings.

Care delivers slooooow ball from rucks each and every time! He's always done it. But he's blistering with ball in hand and half a gap.

All MJ can do at this stage is apply some sticking plasters so the WC is not embarrassing and focus on new talent afterwards. How's Twelvetree's doing nowadays?
 
BOD must have wet himself with anticipation. I'm not sure I want to even watch that game.
 
Additionally, 20 minutes against a 14 man team! That's 1/4 of the freaking game! Null points! I heard once that the average points scored during a sin binning is 7. So 14 points missing - a simplistic view I know but to get nothing from 20 minutes of a 14 man team is shameful. They should have at least forced a couple of penalties and taken the points that way.
 
Do you know how he went?
Don't think I've seen him play 13 before, he's a cracking 12 though
Smashed it for the Saxons earlier in the year
 
Do you know how he went?
Don't think I've seen him play 13 before, he's a cracking 12 though
Smashed it for the Saxons earlier in the year
No idea. I think he played 13 once or twice last season.
 

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