• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

England vs Wales - 06/08/2011 - RWC Warm Up

I would put Flood at 12 over any of them! But I dont think theres enough time. Flutey didnt take any responsibilty today, whenever Wilko couldnt be at 1st receiver he was nowhere to be seen. Leading to the likes of the front row and Tuilagi having to stand in there far too frequently.
 
My tuppence worth Ill keep it to the backs...

-Scrum half could turn out to be a serious weak link as we progress with Youngs' decline and Care's slow ball. That said it there is enough time for them to improve.

-Fly-half, this should be Wilko's berth, he played excellently today and showed a confidence and accuracy that I have not seen from him for a long long time. As for Charlie H poor blighter didn't get a chance to prove himself.

-Centres- Tuilagi has plenty of promise, Flutey was as expected... a bit past it but with some flickers of potential - not currently RWC material. As for who I'd pick to take on the plane: Tindall, Tuliagi, Hape (as a sub). Flood can fill in there as well, but I wouldn't expect anything from him.

-Wings... Ashton can sleep easy. Cueto is old and a bit past it but there was enough from him to confince me he should at least have a chance to go. Sharples has plenty of potential and I would be tempted to take him. Banahan showed some of what I like seeing at club level, is should not start but should definitely be in the matchday 22 and I think Johnson should stop farting around with him as a centre.

Finally.. Fullback. I said earlier on this thread that Armitage was useless. I was wrong and I have no idea how he has pulled that out of the hat, definitely should go (avec Foden).

A quick note on the forwards: Not too bad but needs work. Maddog should go but he won't make it out of the group stages until he realises that he isn't invincible and needs to save himself for big matches! Front row was a bit MEH, Mears wouldn't be a poor option but he'd need Stevens and Wilson to suceed. Some worrying jitters amongst the rest of them and IMHO the english no8 problem is still there Haskell did do well today but not enough to convince me.

m0rris
 
Overall very scrappy I thought. Both teams seemed to have focused a lot on the physical side of things in the build up rather than handling etc.
Players who impressed me:
Tuilagi-Didnt do too much wrong, would have been targeted my the welsh for his inexperience but did well, great line for his try too.
Armitage- Annoyingly he was brilliant today, showed good skill and pace like he did around 2009?
Shaw- Thought he was past it but showed some good touches today.
North- Brilliant player, really one for the future. Looking forward to seeing how he develops.
Roberts- Had some critics coming into the game, I thought he was starting to go back to his "lions roots".
Bradley Davies- I've always rated this guy. Works very hard at the breakdown.

Players who didnt impress me:
Care- Quins fan, but with all that pace and flair you would have thought he might have some sort of attacking mindset? For some reason whenever he plays for england he seems very conservetive.
Flutey- Was he even playing? No impact.
Croft- Not his greatest game by any means. Didnt really come and look for the ball.
Shane Williams- Legend, however i thought he tried to do too much today when he had the ball.
Phillips- Similar to care, really dissapointed with how he's played coming off such a strong lions tour.
Falateu(spelling?)- Heard a lot about him before the game and really didnt see why?

No front rows, never pay much attention to scrums anymore, i just shut my eyes and get someone to tell me when the balls out...however little dissapointed as i would have liked to seen stevens do a little more in the loose...
 
Surprised at the comments as I thought Fluety was pretty good. Both sides played lazily though and looked rusty playing off lineouts and scrums. Would like to see Banahan dropped as he doesn't really add anything - in the absence of adventure from Johnson hopefully Armitage could wing it, with Foden at full back.
 
Predicted England team for next game?

1-sheridan
2-thompson
3-cole
4-lawes
5-botha (didnt do much today but this is prediction, not what Id choose for a test)
6-fourie/Wood
7-Robshaw
8-Easter (would choose haskell)
9-Care (youngs if hes fit)
10 - flood (covered from bench by CH)
11-Sharples?
12 - tindall
13 - Tuilagi (needs the experience)
14 - Ashton
15 - Fodey-wodey
 
I'm really not sure


Depends whether Johnson wants to target a win or try out combinations


I mean, beforehand I would've expected everyone in the 40 man squad to get a run out during the warmups, but I can't see (for example) Ugo Monye fitting in anywhere

I think:

1. Sheridan/Stevens
2. Thompson
3. Cole
4. Lawes (if fit, Deacon if not - don't agree, but think it'll happen)
5. Palmer
6. Wood
7. Fourie
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Flood
------------Here's where it's a bit sketchy/I don't know-----------------
11. Monye/Sharples
12. Hape/Banahan
13. Tindall/Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Mears
17. Stevens (if not starting, Corbisiero if he is)
18. Botha (Deacon if not starting)
19. Robshaw (though could easily be Croft or Haskell, I'm not sure)
20. Wigglesworth
21. Hodgson
22. Banahan (Armitage is Banners isn't starting)
 
I thought Riki Flutey was rather good. Wilkinson was class and I think the Wilkinson-Flutey-Tuilagi is a good one that needs more time as they compliment each others skills perfectly and are a lot more creative than anything Hape and Tindall can offer. Banahan... What the hell is he doing on the wing? I think he just wants to be a back so badly but he just doesn't seem to fit. Delon Armitage was pretty good.

On a side note, I thought Mikes Phillips was banned from Welsh rugby?
 
Listen what worries me is where is it going to end? Think about premiership football clucbs. Man utd. Not an Englishmen in sight. In 20 years time 20% of the english rugby team will be foriegn.
 
Really interesting seeing a lot of England fans on here (finally) with things to say! Normally just mite, olyy and me batting similar opinions around about banahan...

I'm being sucked in, I'm going to do a lot of picking now. World cup fever has struck. I would say, on the subject of Delon Armitage, what I've read everyone say is remarkably similar to what you'd say about Delon as a rugby player in general - long streaking runs, solidity under the high ball, good kicking game and reliability as a last line of defence are all features of his game. I get the feeling that his prickish behaviour of the last 2 years, added to a 2010 6N where the gameplan stifled anyone's attacking flair, has rather overshadowed what made him an outstanding test fullback in the first place. This was, after all, his first full game in the 'new' England setup.

Anyway, here's my first team to play Argentina (unfortunately all my selections suffer from the absence of Allen etc. from the squad):

1. Sheridan
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Palmer
6. Croft
7. Wood
8. Haskell
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Cueto
12. Flutey
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

on top of that, then, we need a further 15 players to join them on the plane.

Props:
Corbisiero & Stevens.

Hookers:
Thompson & Mears

2nd Row:
Shaw & Deacon (personally, think Shaw's past it, still better and more English than Botha, wish Attwood was fit)

Back Row:
Easter, Moody. (love to have Robshaw there but we need 8 cover & Moody does offer something else)

Scrum halves:
Simpson, Wigglesworth (Joe needs a runout next weekend, but I think he's better than Care. DC is better than Wigglesworth, but RW offers a different style that might come in useful)

Fly halves:
Wilkinson, Hodgson (obvious, but I'd rather have Farrell there)

Back 5:
Tindall, Sharples, Armitage (if he brings 3 fly halves, competition for back 5 places is really hot. In reality it will be Sharples and perhaps Flutey who miss out for Banahan and Hape. Manu's probably booked himself on the plane by scoring yesterday).

On another note, had a brief chat with Will Greenwood in the pub last night. Top bloke.
 
Listen what worries me is where is it going to end? Think about premiership football clucbs. Man utd. Not an Englishmen in sight. In 20 years time 20% of the english rugby team will be foriegn.

20 years time? Isn't about 20% of the squad foreign now? Flutey, Hape, Tuilagi, Fourie, Hartley, Stevens..?

On topic, England and Wales both looked ok in this one. I think they could both have a good run at the RWC. Especially England I'm a bit worried about the red rose pulling it together. Foden, Ashton and Tuilagi are all quality players in the backline which I think you've lacked a wee bit since '07. Tindall is hopeless along with Banahan (can't believe he starts at club level let alone for the international side). As a kiwi fan I'm worried about Wilkinson getting into any sort of form. I hope they choose Flood ahead of him.
 
Really think Flutey did himself more harm than good yesterday. Bright first 10 minutes but after that wasnt in the game. Im not a Bana-fan but I thought he played pretty well yesterday, and actually donmcdazzle he is one of Baths best players and has genuinely had some brilliant outings for them this season. Also ginge Greenwood is indeed a legend and top lad to boot.
 
Here's my player ratings for the Welsh team:

Paul James - 5/10. Struggled a little in the scrum and was anonymous in the loose. Worst game he's playing in a long time. Bevington was a noticable improvement, at least in the loose.
Huw Bennett - 7/10. Surprisingly had a good game I thought. Carried very well, and his lineout throwing was much improved, although not perfect.
Craig Mitchell - 5.5/10. Again struggled in the scrum. Noticed him carrying the ball a couple of times, but not too much more in the loose.
Bradley Davies - 7/10. Strong carying as always. Served us well at the front of the lineout. Some good counter rucking at the start of the game.
Alun-Wyn Jones - 6/10. A little quiet from him I thought. Did ok in the lineout, but he's still a long way short of his old self.
Dan Lydiate - 6/10. As always, got through alot of work, but I thought he struggled physically a little yesterday. Didn't make much ground with ball in hand, and wasn't ferocious enough in the rucks.
Sam Warburton - 8/10. This man is getting better and better I think. Not his usual destructive self at ruck time maybe, but he grew and grew in the second half. His break in the lead up to North's second try was something a winger would be proud of, showed impressive acceleration. Unlucky not to be awarded a try I thought aswell, as it looked like the ball was grounded at the same time as he hit the touch line, and as the attacker should have the benefit of the doubt..... Led well, although possibly should have opted to kick to goal on a couple of occasions instead of going to the corner.
Toby Faletau - 3/10. Poor game from the big man. I was hoping to see big things from him, but he struggled yesterday. Started brighly with a kick through and nice pick-up, but that was about it. His usually excellent hands let him down on occasion, and he struggled to make much ground with ball in hand.

Mike Phillips - 6/10. An improved display from him I thought. Not perfect, but made a couple of little half breaks, and his delivery was accurate if not as nippy as I'd like. Still a long way to go, and I thought Knoyle was an improvement when he came on.
Rhys Priestland - 8/10. Stepped up, after what must have been a difficult lead-up to the game. I thought he ran things very well. Attacked the line well, making a couple of breaks, passed well, and kicked well for the most part. His place kicking isn't up to Jones or Hook's standard, missing one that the other two probably would have got. Put down a serious marker for the other two, especially Hook as an attacking fly-half.
Shane Williams - 5/10. Finsied his try well, although simply passing the ball to the four men outside him would have worked just as well. Tried to hard otherwise, and lost the ball a couple of times, or ran into Roberts!
Jamie Roberts - 7/10. Decent game I thought. Solid defensively, and strong on the ball. Still think he's used in a too one dimensional way, but that's not entirely his fault. Can't understand why he didn't go back to fullback when Stoddart left the field.
Jonathan Davies - 6/10. Still struggling to translate his regional form to the international scene. Looked like he's lost a little pace, as he was burned by Armitage, and that doesn't usually happen, infact it's normally him that's burning the opposition on the outside. Not nearly as prominent as he should have been. Work in progress.
George North - 8/10. Excellent game. Came inside looking for work, picking good angles, running hard and making yard every time. Scored two tries. Only real blemish was that he flung a blind pass to no-one in the final minute letting England off the hook, as they were under the cosh.
Morgan Stoddart - 7/10. Pretty good when he was on the field. Made a few half breaks and delivered a nicely timed pass, making sure to have commited the final defender, for North's first try. Very unfortunate to pick-up such a nasty injury, and his WC hopes are over.

Lloyd Burns - 7/10. Came on and didn't look out of place. Stole the ball back from an English lineout in the build up to North's second try.
Ryan Bevington - 7/10. Not sure about scrummaging tbh, but his open field play was excellent. Some nice offloads, and some strong carries. A definite improvement over Paul James.
Luke Charteris - 4/10. Not a good cameo from the beanpole. Lost the ball with his first touch, by not securing the ball propperly at lineout. Why was he just holding the ball up in the air when a maul was forming around him? Lacked grunt while carrying the ball. Won a couple of clear lineouts, but so did Alun-Wyn when he was on. We're struggling a little at lock with neither Alun-Wyn or Charteris playing well. Ryan Jones to lock?
Ryan Jones - 7/10. Big improvement I thought. Added some grunt and experience in the backrow. Still think Delve should get a run at 8 next week with Jones at lock.
Tavis Knoyle - 7/10. As I said before, improvement over Phillips. Almost messed up that quick tap though!
Scott Williams - 7/10. One or two decent charges, and had to deal with being in a very unfamiliar role. Poor pass into touch though!
 
Am I still the only person who saw Wilkinson knock the ball on about 25 yards in the first half?
 
Here's my player ratings for the Welsh team:

Bradley Davies - 7/10. Strong carying as always. Served us well at the front of the lineout. Some good counter rucking at the start of the game.
Toby Faletau - 3/10. Poor game from the big man. I was hoping to see big things from him, but he struggled yesterday. Started brighly with a kick through and nice pick-up, but that was about it. His usually excellent hands let him down on occasion, and he struggled to make much ground with ball in hand.
Agree with the majority of your ratings Dull, but think giving Faletau a 3 is a tad harsh, although he definitely didn't have a good game.
Also thought Bradley was crap and definitely didn't carry strongly for me. For all of the Welsh camp's talk about intense physical training and conditioning Poland they looked worryingly small and weak compared to England. The amount of times I screamed 'just hit the *******' does not bear thinking about.
 
Toby Faletau
- 3/10. Poor game from the big man. I was hoping to see big things from him, but he struggled yesterday. Started brighly with a kick through and nice pick-up, but that was about it. His usually excellent hands let him down on occasion, and he struggled to make much ground with ball in hand.

Not a great match, but 3/10 is a bit harsh, particularly considering you gave Charteris higher, 5/10 is what I would have given him

Mike Phillips
- 6/10. An improved display from him I thought. Not perfect, but made a couple of little half breaks, and his delivery was accurate if not as nippy as I'd like. Still a long way to go, and I thought Knoyle was an improvement when he came on.

I would dock him a mark for being out of position during the Haskell try, 5/10, I wouldn't start him at the World Cup on current form

Rhys Priestland
- 8/10. Stepped up, after what must have been a difficult lead-up to the game. I thought he ran things very well. Attacked the line well, making a couple of breaks, passed well, and kicked well for the most part. His place kicking isn't up to Jones or Hook's standard, missing one that the other two probably would have got. Put down a serious marker for the other two, especially Hook as an attacking fly-half.

Was my man of the match from a Wales point of view, I want him to play at full back ahead of Byrne, or at least on the bench for the World Cup
Jonathan Davies
- 6/10. Still struggling to translate his regional form to the international scene. Looked like he's lost a little pace, as he was burned by Armitage, and that doesn't usually happen, infact it's normally him that's burning the opposition on the outside. Not nearly as prominent as he should have been. Work in progress.

I agree here, on regional form he deserves the position but hasn't done that well for Wales in his career yet, (is this because the Scarlets style of play suit him more?) still better than any other options we have at centre
Lloyd Burns
- 7/10. Came on and didn't look out of place. Stole the ball back from an English lineout in the build up to North's second try.

I'm sorry but look out of place is exactly what he did, as soon as he and Charteris came on the lineout was a mess every time, would struggle to be a first choice at any Aviva Premiership side

Ryan Bevington
- 7/10. Not sure about scrummaging tbh, but his open field play was excellent. Some nice offloads, and some strong carries. A definite improvement over Paul James.

not sure on him at international, I don't think he's ready for it, I think James is better at scrums than Bevington although he had an off day yesterday

Luke Charteris
- 4/10. Not a good cameo from the beanpole. Lost the ball with his first touch, by not securing the ball propperly at lineout. Why was he just holding the ball up in the air when a maul was forming around him? Lacked grunt while carrying the ball. Won a couple of clear lineouts, but so did Alun-Wyn when he was on. We're struggling a little at lock with neither Alun-Wyn or Charteris playing well. Ryan Jones to lock?
Charteris is awful, I agree, Ryan Jones should go to lock, Charteris should go back to his rightful place ... the Welsh basketball team
Scott Williams
- 7/10. One or two decent charges, and had to deal with being in a very unfamiliar role. Poor pass into touch though!

To be honest I think he struggled at fly half, 7 from 10 is a bit generous
 
I'm happy that you guys finally realize that you got a talented fly half in England. Such a shame that Wilko didn't play previous games because of one of the most overrated guy in Europe. And this was only his first game as a starter.
 
Assuming the argentina game at the end of august should see as putting out close to our first choice starting 15, this next wales game should be halfway between that final 15 and the one which started yesterday. But also MJ will want to win quite badly in order to keep up momentum, and in order to get that win we will need to bring in a nnumber of first-choicers.

predicted lineup for wales next week then:

1) Corbisiero - Not his best game yesterday, MJ might want to make sure he has what it takes. Sheridan still first choice bu MJ won't want to risk injuring him
2) Hartley - not at his best yesterday,more game time needed
3) Cole - Stevens has shown his credentials and after some of these performances he'll be pushing Cole for his place. MJ may want to see how Cole does in a return fixture
4) Lawes - If he's back from injury, his intensity will be much-needed
5) Palmer- we just need him
6) Croft - not at his best yesterday, more time
7) Wood - this will be his chance to almost guarantee him a starting place if he plays well enough
8) Haskell - grew into the 8 role, and I think Mj will want to make double-sure that he can play this position comparably well to Easter
9) Care -
10) Hodgson(?) - dont know about this, but we havent seen him play. Flood will definitely start against argentina so maybe this is his chance
11) Sharples - did not see much of him yesterday, but we know cueto is first choice here so it'd be good to establish the hierarchy after him
12) Flutey - did not really prove himself yesterday, more time perhaps?
13) Tuilagi - we need to give him more time to become comfortable.
14) Ashton - we're playing wales, and we need to win!
15) Armitage - foden is a dead-cert at 15, can't hurt to play delon again.
 
Ireland is our last warmup - Argentina is our first groupstage match

I don't think Hartley should start the next match - he's the current starting hooker, so Thompson should start, Mears bench
Especially with Jones/Jenkins likely to be back, Hartley is the weak link in the scrum, and Thompson is a better scrummager than him (and Mears there for gametime - I don't like that he's going to go to NZ, but he is, so needs more time)
 
Had to make do with BBC Three highlights, best moment? Brian Moore: "No, you need to go forward," after Shaw ran 5m sideways, 10m behind the previous ruck.

Did smile seeing Tuilagi score.
 
I watched the highlights just to hear the Moore/Butler duo. They weren't their over exaggerated selves, as if they didn't need to bother because they weren't giving live commentary :p I'd have them over Barnes any day, at least Moore's funny in his one eyed approach :D
 

Latest posts

Top