England vs Wales - 06/08/2011 - RWC Warm Up

[Sixesandsevens]

I know its off topic TVH11, but you do know jumping tackles is illegal!! Mind you Phillips got away with it today too.....but he got owned by Stevens anyway. Good game I thought, got pretty scrappy but to be fair they havent played for ages. Toby Flood needs a big game next weekend and I imagine JW will be breathing down his neck on the bench, and be on to try and close it out if theres any strife. Actually quite looking forward to seeing Gavlar play! Thought Croft and Moody both had pretty poor games but hope Moody is ok as I would still start him.

 

[TVH11]

^^^^^^^^^^

So i'm told, but its fine when Super Shane does them (he wasn't actually penalized for it to my knowledge).

Anyways just watched the BBC 2 coverage, waw there really isn't that much to "highlight". Watched stoddart's injury again, my mam was cringing when I was rewinding and pausing using the power of SKY + (She's getting old the poor thing )

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Yeah we rewound it too! It was pretty horrific. I saw a headline 'England and Wales left sweating over Moody and Stoddart fitness'.......I doubt Wales are sweating too profously as I cant see much chance of him getting fit!

 

[j-dawg]

Few points on the English players;

Corbiserio - Turned out in great shape. Didn't perform as well as he did in the 6 nations.
Hartley - Knocked back in the contact area. Needs more strength and power.
Stevens - Did well in the scrum and killed in that mid air tackle. Feel like something is missing from his carrying game.
Palmer - Not as noticeable as in the 6 nations but 'did his job'. Tackled well on the fringes especially when on his own tryline.
Shaw - Can't make up my mind. Taking the ball standing still (NEEDS to be addressed) but made a huge contribution in the tight, particularly the mauls. More noticeable performance than Botha I'd
say.
Croft - Pretty poor performance by his usual standards. No carrying or offloads.
Moody - Enthusiasm was shown by several attempts to make big hits at the start. Soon stopped when he made one. Past it?
Haskell - Powerful carrying and took try well. Getting bigger by the day.
Care - Took way too long to get the ball out countless times. Lead the turnovers.
Wilko - Kept the scoreboard ticking over in Englands favour. Solid defense and a 'when in doubt, drop goal' approach to keep England ahead. Superb Kicking.
Cueto - Eager to run but was largely uninvolved in places. England should use him more.
Flutey - Solid tackling. Like Cueto, needs to be utilized as a player in attack.
Tuilagi - Great debut. Nervy start but settled into it and managed a few big hits.
Bananamahan - Made some dents in attack but do we really need a forward on the wing?
Armitage - Excellently performed. A long streaking run brought him to attention as well as securing high ball kicks with his long arms. Changed my opinion of him completley. Should take
Bananamahans place.

Another note. The whole team seemed in great shape and a few players looked pretty huge.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'll eat my hat if Bevington goes on the plane, he was a little raw today and is not ready yet for Wales. His scrummaging had a lot to be desired about and his loose play was ok. One for the future.

Wales were not great but neither poor. Their second half showing shows a determination and a fightback that worried England. GG will no doubt disagree with this.

Matt Stevens looked good today, was really impressed with him. Manu had his moments today also. England however should be worried that their second half display almost cost them a game they were so comfortably in control.

Wales need to look at various combos next week, so a Henson - Roberts / Henson-Davies would be good to see. A few players looked to have played themselves off the plane notably Bennett and Phillips but lets be honest Warren will still pick them.

Another massive clap of hands for the brilliance of Steve Walsh today who was dire.

 

[Sixesandsevens]

I thought Shawsy was fantastic to be honest! Completely changed my opinion on his place on the plane. His restart work was exceptional. Tuilagi should be on the plane in my opinion and Monye or Sharples will need to do alot to get ahead of Armitage or Banahan now after a pretty good performance from the pair of them. Flutey didnt get on the ball enough for me at all. He fizzed in the opening exchanges, but I think he went missing.

 

[Thingimubob]

Well, I'm happy with the performance despite the result, really thought they did a damn good job against the odds, especially after the injuries, Jones pulling out at the death then Stoddard breaking his leg. Thought North had a great game, carried the ball well with some good angles, and showed his natural finishing ability. Warburton was fantastic, led from the front with some great carries and breaks. Shane had a mixed bag, couple of uncharacteristic errors, yet still showed he's a deadly finisher. Bennett carried very well, and had a more decent game than I was expecting. Phillips played a bit better too, but we were far better with Knoyle on the pitch, would like to see him start next week. Front row struggled at scrum time, but this should be sorted if we get our lions front row back soon! Faletau had a few unforced errors, not quite as promenant as he usually is, would like to see Delve given a crack in the next game. That said, thought Ryan Jones did well when he game on too.
Not sure if Priestland will start next week, though I'd be more than happy for him to play given his performance today! Though I do feel we need another goal kicker in the starting 15 too if he starts, just to be safe.

 

[j-dawg]

I thought Shawsy was fantastic to be honest! Completely changed my opinion on his place on the plane. His restart work was exceptional. Tuilagi should be on the plane in my opinion and Monye or Sharples will need to do alot to get ahead of Armitage or Banahan now after a pretty good performance from the pair of them. Flutey didnt get on the ball enough for me at all. He fizzed in the opening exchanges, but I think he went missing.

I agree with your comment on Shawsykins with the restarts. I noticed once he ran onto the ball like his lions 2005 run and nearly set off like he did then but hit a wall of Welsh shirts. I think he should be on instead of Botha.

 

[Blumbus23]

Player Ratings (from my first viewing)

Alex Corbisiero - Simply didn't have the impact he had in the 6 nations, Sheridan should feel his shirt is safe
Dylan Hartley - Dreadful really, just didn't turn up. all that can be said good of him is that he was part of a decent lineout. Thompson should start
Matt Stevens - Fantastic scrummaging effort, perhaps would like to see him carry more. As good as on the plane (and probablly a bench spot) now
Simon Shaw - A brilliant first half hour or so, but as you'd excpect from someone as old as he is, dissapeared for the rest of the match. His bench spot is safe
Tom Palmer - Didn't do anything wrong, but he probablly would of liked to get his hands on the ball more. His shirt is safe
Tom Croft - Had a good work rate. But I don't actually remember him getting the ball (a shame for someone with his talent). If he continues like this I think Robshaw or Wood would be better.
Lewis Moody - Has in all probability lost his captaincy and should be more concerned about getting on the plane at all. Clearly past it (slipped of tackles) and is a liability when it comes to injuries.
James Haskell - Played well, but is simply not an 8. England are in trouble if Easter gets hurt. Saying that he took his try well, and should probablly be somewhere in the matchday 22 (possibly at 7)

Danny Care - Made several important tackles (not just the hit on Williams). However needs to translate his club form to england and speed up his service. I still think unless Youngs performs well in the warm ups that Care should start.
Jonny Wilkinson - Our best player by some distance, kept the scoreboard ticking over and did everything you would want from you fly half at a world cup. Should start.
Mark Cueto - Managed a to pull of a single sidestep which is probablly enough to keep his place. Despite this he made a few defensive errors and didn't offer much in attack
Riki Flutey - Didn't do much (although I saw him hitting quite a few rucks). Is not the answer at inside centre.
Manu Tuilagi - A fantastic debut. Picked a great line for his try and made several big hits. Still defensivly naive and needs more gametime. Probablly the best centre in the squad
Matt Banahan - Despite how lowly I rate him, he actually played all right and made a few clever kicks (which I wasn't aware he was capable of). Didn't challenge anyone's starting berth and is destined to travel as a squad player.
Delon Armitage - The best I've seen him play for ages. Made several good catches. Made an eye cathing break and important tackle. Foden's shirt is still safe (but that was always going to be the case). A good bet for the number 22 jersey.

Lee Mears - Didn't make an impression. Is more or less a certainty to travel anyway.
David Wilson - Same as above except he probablly won't go.
Mouritz Botha - I think the first thing he did was miss a tackle. He won't travel
Tom Wood - The only player from the bench to really make an impact on the result. Great tackle to save Sam Waburton's nearly try. Had a good workrate. Should be given a go in Cardiff and possibly the 7 jersey.
Richard Wigglesworth - Couldn't influence the game behind pack going backwards, but did himself no harm in his battle with Joe Simpson
Charlie Hodgson - Poor guy only got a few minutes. Will be rightly annoyed. He will probablly go anyway as a third fly half.
Charlie Sharples - Brought the crowd to life with his first touch of the ball. Wasn't on long enough to make a proper judgement. Should be get a run out in Cardiff

 

[j-dawg]

Player Ratings (from my first viewing)

Alex Corbisiero - Simply didn't have the impact he had in the 6 nations, Sheridan should feel his shirt is safe
Dylan Hartley - Dreadful really, just didn't turn up. all that can be said good of him is that he was part of a decent lineout. Thompson should start
Matt Stevens - Fantastic scrummaging effort, perhaps would like to see him carry more. As good as on the plane (and probablly a bench spot) now
Simon Shaw - A brilliant first half hour or so, but as you'd excpect from someone as old as he is, dissapeared for the rest of the match. His bench spot is safe
Tom Palmer - Didn't do anything wrong, but he probablly would of liked to get his hands on the ball more. His shirt is safe
Tom Croft - Had a good work rate. But I don't actually remember him getting the ball (a shame for someone with his talent). If he continues like this I think Robshaw or Wood would be better.
Lewis Moody - Has in all probability lost his captaincy and should be more concerned about getting on the plane at all. Clearly past it (slipped of tackles) and is a liability when it comes to injuries.
James Haskell - Played well, but is simply not an 8. England are in trouble if Easter gets hurt. Saying that he took his try well, and should probablly be somewhere in the matchday 22 (possibly at 7)

Danny Care - Made several important tackles (not just the hit on Williams). However needs to translate his club form to england and speed up his service. I still think unless Youngs performs well in the warm ups that Care should start.
Jonny Wilkinson - Our best player by some distance, kept the scoreboard ticking over and did everything you would want from you fly half at a world cup. Should start.
Mark Cueto - Managed a to pull of a single sidestep which is probablly enough to keep his place. Despite this he made a few defensive errors and didn't offer much in attack
Riki Flutey - Didn't do much (although I saw him hitting quite a few rucks). Is not the answer at inside centre.
Manu Tuilagi - A fantastic debut. Picked a great line for his try and made several big hits. Still defensivly naive and needs more gametime. Probablly the best centre in the squad
Matt Banahan - Despite how lowly I rate him, he actually played all right and made a few clever kicks (which I wasn't aware he was capable of). Didn't challenge anyone's starting berth and is destined to travel as a squad player.
Delon Armitage - The best I've seen him play for ages. Made several good catches. Made an eye cathing break and important tackle. Foden's shirt is still safe (but that was always going to be the case). A good bet for the number 22 jersey.

Lee Mears - Didn't make an impression. Is more or less a certainty to travel anyway.
David Wilson - Same as above except he probablly won't go.
Mouritz Botha - I think the first thing he did was miss a tackle. He won't travel
Tom Wood - The only player from the bench to really make an impact on the result. Great tackle to save Sam Waburton's nearly try. Had a good workrate. Should be given a go in Cardiff and possibly the 7 jersey.
Richard Wigglesworth - Couldn't influence the game behind pack going backwards, but did himself no harm in his battle with Joe Simpson
Charlie Hodgson - Poor guy only got a few minutes. Will be rightly annoyed. He will probablly go anyway as a third fly half.
Charlie Sharples - Brought the crowd to life with his first touch of the ball. Wasn't on long enough to make a proper judgement. Should be get a run out in Cardiff

Your summary looks remarkably like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ales-how-the-players-rated-at-Twickenham.html

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Player Ratings (from my first viewing)

Lewis Moody - Has in all probability lost his captaincy and should be more concerned about getting on the plane at all. Clearly past it (slipped of tackles) and is a liability when it comes to injuries.

A big part of his game is tearing up ahead of the line to put pressure on the attacker and force them to go one way or another, I dont really count that as a missed tackle. I think your pretty harsh there. I'd still start him, he is a unique talent and McCaw rates him as up there with Pocock. Says it all.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Still think Wood and Fourie are better options at 7

 

[Blumbus23]

Your summary looks remarkably like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ales-how-the-players-rated-at-Twickenham.html

Yeah tis a bit . It's because I felt bad just saying "anonamous" (sorry can't spell) about players I didn't notice (i.e.Corbs), at risk of being told I wasn't watching properly. So I checked what other people had to say, and the telegraph agreed with me most

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Agree that Wood will be 7 in the next six nations in all probablity. But I believe there is life in the old dog yet! And that he has a last massive tournament in him, which is why I would pick him as my captain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, I don't think Moody is as bad as some think, and he probably will be our Captain for WC (if his knee holds up), and we could do worse at flank *coughWORSELYcough*

I wonder who would captain if Moody was out - Easter isn't guaranteed the 8 shirt, with competition from Haskell now

Actually, would just be Tindall wouldn't it? Tuilagi isn't going to overtake him for starting 13 in the next two matches (especially when Tindall will probably start one of, if not both of them)

 

[Sixesandsevens]

If no 12s turn up wouldnt be surprised to see Tindall at 12 with manu at 13. Flutey was anonymous unfortunately.

 

[JW.]

Flutey needs some more gametime. I'd take the gamble and play him the next game 2. If he can get his form back he could be very important for England in the WC.

 

[stus768]

Care slowed the whole game down, takes too long at every breakdown. Needed to play like he did in the amilin final.

 

[psychic duck]

picking Worsley is like sinking to Scotland's level,

admitting that the best you can do is just tackle and tackle and hope to win by just scoring a few penalties

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Luckily Worsely was dropped, so no chance


I would give Flutey another start - hell, I'd start him for both of the tests.
If it's a choice between him or Hape/Banahan, I'd take Flutey everyday of the week
I'd even shift Flood back to 12 over those two