[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)

[Yoshimitsu]

I'm more interesting in knowing Lancaster's answer for dropping Ford....

We'll get some platitudes and I can't read minds. But I believe it is to accommodate Sam Burgess. I can only assume that Sam must have messianic charisma and must perform well in training. If Sam becomes "Must Pick" then the rest of the selection begins to look less, well, mental. Burgess's individual defence is awesome. If he hits you, you're going to know about it. However his positioning is severely suspect and he's not the one you want organising the line. The trick then becomes to retain enough good defence. To do that you put two pretty defensively minded players around Sam in Owen and Brad. Now admittedly that pretty much castrates you in attack. But if the plan is to bosh using Burgess with support from wings as I suspect, the fact that your other centre isn't a distributor or an offensive runner isn't so much of a problem. Neither is Farrell going to be tasked with trying to pick clever passes. He'll run tight, pass to Sam who'll be on crash ball route at Biggar all day or boot it away.

England appear to have become Sam Burgess. I hope to God he can deliver. I guess at least we know he'll try.

 

[MojoPin]

Wales: L Williams; G North, S Williams, J Roberts, H Amos; D Biggar, G Davies; G Jenkins, S Baldwin, T Francis, B Davies, AW Jones; D Lydiate, S Warburton, T Faletau.

Reps: K Owens, A Jarvis, S Lee, L Charteris, J Tipuric, L Williams, R Priestland, A Cuthbert.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Agree that you have to think about the message being sent to the lieks of Slade and Ford - that Lancaster would rather cobble together a hopelessly unbalanced backline than have those two playing!

Welcome to the forum Moaker.
You are right to say that our spark has come from the back 3, but tell me how are they going to get the ball now with those three in the midfield? Even if there was a will to spread the ball wide, Farrell, Burgess and Barritt are nto particularly quick of feet or hands.

I can only think that we plan to truck it up building phase after phase with Burgess and Baritt. The problem is our ball retention and breakdown work has been nowhere near good enough for that sort of game-plan to be a go-er.

 

[stus768]

I remember last years 6N when Lancaster refused to pick Ford for either Italy or Scotland because 'Farrell had done nothing to get dropped'. When this would have been perfect to get him Int experience. Now he's dropping ford when he's done nothing wrong. Not that he's been great.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wales: L Williams; G North, S Williams, J Roberts, H Amos; D Biggar, G Davies; G Jenkins, S Baldwin, T Francis, B Davies, AW Jones; D Lydiate, S Warburton, T Faletau.

Reps: K Owens, A Jarvis, S Lee, L Charteris, J Tipuric, L Williams, R Priestland, A Cuthbert.

So Who's this Francis lad and is he as bad as I want him to be?

 

[AzaMatt]

While I'm sure I wouldn't be saying this if I was an England fan...I wouldn't panic over the selection. England still have every chance of winning this and I can guarantee there aren't any Welsh fans sitting back thinking 'well, this is in the bag now'. But I have to say the selection is bordering on bizarre and if England lose, Lancaster is going to be facing some serious sh...er, questioning. Questioning.

Now to wait for Wales' selection...fingers crossed for Samson's name on the team sheet...

i dont think this means we will win convincingly. but it does give us more of a chance of just pinching it. our defence tends to be quite solid, JJ broke our defence quite easily in the six nations with some amazing footwork, replacing him with runners that bash stuff seems an odd choice as i think we will cope with that quite well. it will still be a tight game but im glad that we wont be up against JJ (not glad about the injury, thats genuinely awful for the guy) or George Ford as he is great in attack and chooses great options. This selection has certainly made the result more unpredictable

 

[MojoPin]

So Who's this Francis lad and is he as bad as I want him to be?

Tom Francis, prop for Exeter Chiefs. Very talented young guy - scrummages well and gets around the park. Fitness isn't the best but improving with experience it seems. I think he'll subbed fairly early in the second half for Samson Lee. Just broken into the Wales squad and will definitely stay there I reckon. Loads of potential but already very good.

- - - Updated - - -

So thoughts on the team...it's very strong. Interesting that Lee is on the bench - implies that he's not quite 100% perhaps, but to be fair Francis has been doing very well. Interesting that Mike Phillips didn't make the squad, and that Cuthbert is dropped to the bench. Tipuric back on the bench too - tough for him I think but Lydiate is often underestimated by Welsh fans and we'll just have to hope Tipuric can make a big impact when he comes on.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So Who's this Francis lad and is he as bad as I want him to be?

Just have to hope that he sings the right (or should that be wrong?) anthem


He's a Yorkshire lad, born and bred - Gatland offered him a spot in the wales squad due to their injuries, and England said he was a couple of seasons off so he went for the money.
Rob Baxter wasn't happy, didn't want to talk about it in interviews and just said "Well he's not Welsh, is he?" :lol:


He's decent enough for a young prop - his fitness and workrate is very lacking, but he makes up for it in better-than-his-age-suggests-scrummaging.
Absolutely ruined Corbisiero, for Exter, this season but didn't do much else, so no one is quite sure whether that's a tick for Francis for just Corbs being **** again.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I honestly believe Warren G has missed an opportunity here. I think the English pack will fancy that. Pretty much a man for man arm wrestle. Personally I reckon it'll be close. Tipuric and Warburton have the capability to utterly destroy England by winning turnover and in Tipuric's case the ability not just to win ball but to use it very very well. Lydiate is a fine player in his own right but doesn't bring the fear like the aforementioned.

Still on the plus side the Welsh have beaten us in in at least one contest. Who has the worst bench player? I give you Alex Cuthbert.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Tom Francis, prop for Exeter Chiefs. Very talented young guy - scrummages well and gets around the park. Fitness isn't the best but improving with experience it seems. I think he'll subbed fairly early in the second half for Samson Lee. Just broken into the Wales squad and will definitely stay there I reckon. Loads of potential but already very good.

Bugger.
Haa. Yeah I've actually seen Tom Francis a few times, for some reason didn't realise it was him - or that he was Welsh to any extent!

Anyone any idea how on earth we're going to chase this game if we fall badly behind!?
Goode at 10 will be the only option. madness. Strangely, though, if we have to have Goode I'd almost rather have him at 10 than at the back where's he shown us repeatedly he doesn't have the pace for internatinal rugby.

 

[Patchey]

Doomed.

Wales by 10ish. England to defend well and limit Welsh to less than a bonus point but I'd be surprised if we scored more than one / any tries.

 

[SelimNiai]

Hahaha, his positioning is the worst I've seen from an international fullback in.....well, I don't even know. He simply doesn't have the skillset to play England's game. He was massively exposed in the warm ups.

.

Ok, maybe I should say, to me, as someone who has never played full back, he doesn't seem to do much wrong

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I honestly believe Warren G has missed an opportunity here. I think the English pack will fancy that. Pretty much a man for man arm wrestle. Personally I reckon it'll be close. Tipuric and Warburton have the capability to utterly destroy England by winning turnover and in Tipuric's case the ability not just to win ball but to use it very very well. Lydiate is a fine player in his own right but doesn't bring the fear like the aforementioned.

Still on the plus side the Welsh have beaten us in in at least one contest. Who has the worst bench player? I give you Alex Cuthbert.

Agree, if Tipuric had been starting I would already have shat myself multiple times. Instead, I've only shat myself just the once.
As for Cuthbert, I'd rather have him than Goode to some extent. Fact is, if Wales are rampant and creating opportunities all over the place, regardless of form Cuthberts can be a great asset. He's a finisher, albeit he lives off others' prowess in the same way Ashton did.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

.....

 

[Stumpy]

A

Welcome to the forum Moaker.
You are right to say that our spark has come from the back 3, but tell me how are they going to get the ball now with those three in the midfield? Even if there was a will to spread the ball wide, Farrell, Burgess and Barritt are nto particularly quick of feet or hands.

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If you look at Saracens who both BB and Faz play for who our our top try scorers? Our wingers by a country mile, so I don't think you should be too worried about the ball getting to the back 3

 

[Maverick1987]

I'm feeling a bit better now I've seen the Wales team . Francis just hasn't got the fitness to last deep into the game and it's impossible for Sam Lee to be fully fit after the small amount of rugby he's played . Same with Aaron Jarvis and AWJ . Also unbelievably happy Tipuric isn't starting .

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sarries also have a dominant pack and Bosch as a 2nd distributor, though.

I'm feeling a bit better now I've seen the Wales team . Francis just hasn't got the fitness to last deep into the game and it's impossible for Sam Lee to be fully fit after the small amount of rugby he's played

I'd feel much better if one, or both, weren't there.
They may not have much in the tank but they only need 40mins, anything more than that is a bonus. Both are scrummaging better than anyone we can put out (bar Wilson, who is on the same naughty step as Slade, it seems) and they can just give them a half each.

 

[MojoPin]

If I was Gats I'd be tempted to repeat the prop rotation from the Uruguay game but in reverse. Bring on Lee after half time and leave Francis with a bit left in the tank in case Lee can't last the full 40.

 

[Willodell100]

If you look at Saracens who both BB and Faz play for who our our top try scorers? Our wingers by a country mile, so I don't think you should be too worried about the ball getting to the back 3

I completely disagree.

Farrell missed a large part of last season for Saracens as did Barritt due to injury. I think you'll find the reason for Strettle & Ashton's success is down to Wigglesworth & Hodgson.

Farrell's distribution skills are ok but particularly weak off his left hand and Barritt's are non existent. Our wingers will be lucky to get any ball but the if they do the quality will be poor.

 

[Willodell100]

I'm feeling a bit better now I've seen the Wales team . Francis just hasn't got the fitness to last deep into the game and it's impossible for Sam Lee to be fully fit after the small amount of rugby he's played . Same with Aaron Jarvis and AWJ . Also unbelievably happy Tipuric isn't starting .

Agreed.

I have to say as disappointed as I am about Farrell & Barritt's inclusion if I was Welsh I would be livid that Lydiate is in instead of Tipuric.

Our breakdown is an area Wales can really attack us and to not have him in to pilfer ball along with Warbuton is a missed opportunity.