[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Fiji (18/09/2015)

[Cookies]

There has been a lot of debate on Rugby Banter Page about singing over the top of the Cibi and other war dances in general.

Many are saying it is a lack of respect and should be treated like a national anthem.

I disagree.

They already have a national anthem, which we give the upmost respect to, and then sing to accept the challenge. Some will say it is a challenge to the team and not to the fans but when you're at home, home advantage is all about having the fans as part of your team. What do you guys think about it?

I also disagree. Just position the microphones right and the dance will be fine. I actually think that's one of the best parts of Union, the 'war dances' and singing. The whole stadium singing Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, for example, is always phenomenal.

 

[TommiG88]

There has been a lot of debate on Rugby Banter Page about singing over the top of the Cibi and other war dances in general.

Many are saying it is a lack of respect and should be treated like a national anthem.

I disagree.

They already have a national anthem, which we give the upmost respect to, and then sing to accept the challenge. Some will say it is a challenge to the team and not to the fans but when you're at home, home advantage is all about having the fans as part of your team. What do you guys think about it?

It's boring, for the last few years the home crowd has sung across the war tribal dances.

I know wales sing whatever it is they sing over the haka like England sing swing low. The World Cup has brought the game to people's attention who have no interest in the game. They just want to be a keyboard warrior.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I concur. Personally I like to see and hear the challenge being laid down. The crowd deciding to drown it out just seems a bit boorish. However, this in itself was partly a reaction to certain practicioners getting very precious about what constituted the correct degree of "respect" for their particular pre-match ritual. Personally i preferred the good old days of players on the pitch deciding what to do. The Cocker's face off, the Irish march up or even the Campese just ignore it. Everything is so bloody scripted now it ****** me off.

 

[McTallshort]

I concur. Personally I like to see and hear the challenge being laid down. The crowd deciding to drown it out just seems a bit boorish. However, this in itself was partly a reaction to certain practicioners getting very precious about what constituted the correct degree of "respect" for their particular pre-match ritual. Personally i preferred the good old days of players on the pitch deciding what to do. The Cocker's face off, the Irish march up or even the Campese just ignore it. Everything is so bloody scripted now it ****** me off.

+1

 

[donmcdazzle]

Does anyone actually get offended by the singing during war dances or is it just the media trying to stir things up? Can't speak for other countries but as a NZer I love it and the players do too. Nothing better the atmosphere it all creates.

 

[TommiG88]

Does anyone actually get offended by the singing during war dances or is it just the media trying to stir things up? Can't speak for other countries but as a NZer I love it and the players do too. Nothing better the atmosphere it all creates.

Edit: easily offended people.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would rather we sang Jerusalem than swing low but still.

 

[Cookies]

Can you point it out to me exact time? I just watched the entire passage of play up to that try again and couldn't see a knock-on, there's one point where a player looses it backwards in tackle. However it looks fine in real-time so no reason for Peyper to be "ignoring it".

79:56.

 

[brokenoses]

I thought that the crowd singing during the dance was brilliant and really increased the atmosphere and tension in the pre match build up. The overlapping harmonies of swing low I think serve as a rousing alternative to the Pacific nations war dances, and I, along with most others I would presume, would not consider it disrespectful to acknowledge a challenge and offer your own. I would say that the team (Fiji in this case) should be mic'd up enough to compete with the 80,000 odd people with neither side drowning the other out. It really adds to the intensity and excitement of the occasion.

In terms of the match, I know from an England perspective a lot of it was frustrating to watch. England players standing and watching their 9 stand behind a ruck barely protected and seeming quite content to let Fiji clear out with impunity and get the turnover. It almost seemed like a deliberate tactic at times... Line speed seemed to be lacking which I can almost understand due to Fiji's ability to smash through the smallest of gaps in a defensive line, there were one or two hospital passes from England (I think Anthony Watson copped at least one...) and a lack of desire to truck it up and use physicality to break the gain line, something that could be argued as traditionally one of England's strengths.

At the end of the day though, Fiji were a potential spanner in the works and still are to Australia and Wales. England managed to overcome them and a 5 point win and a boot up the behind from coaches is about the best scenario they could have in my opinion. Its all well and good to say 'if England played like that against so and so then they would get hammered...' but there are so many variables going into a match that im sure its a rare occasion where a team plays 2 consecutive matches in the same way. England will go into the Wales game with optimism and points to prove.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Overall, I'm pretty happy with how it went. A lot of people said there was potential to slip-up and we avoided it whilst securing a bonus point win. This Fijian side is the best in the country's history so at the end of the day it was a great result. We predicted a 25 point win here: http://fourballsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/rugby-world-cup-2015-fiji-vs-england.html, so for it to be 24 points I'm pretty delighted.

Some people thought the English thought we were going to trounce them, I don't know any Englishman that thought that would be the case, we all sort of went 25-30 point victory and that was pretty much what happened.

A good, strong start with some big matches ahead, it will be interesting to see how the Aussies handle the Fijians up next, with the Fijians having had that tough opening game. Either they will feel drained or motivated, we shall see.

 

[msf]

Yoshimitsu, I would agree with all your points.

I am trying to be a bit more positive about England than I have been though, so I would rather point out what an achievement it is to get a bonus point against Fiji without 1.) a stable scrum; 2.) a breakdown threat; and 3.) a threat at 12.

As for glass half full or not, I think this describes the England team perfectly at the moment...

We have a hooker who is great around the park, but who isn´t accurate enough at the lineout at this level, and possibly not good enough in the scrum either.

Because of this, we have to play Parling instead of Launchbury, which improves our lineout but gets rid of one of our only breakdown threats.

We have a scrum half who makes brilliant decisions and suberb breaks, but has not mastered the basics of scrum half play: passing from the base and kicking accurately under pressure.

We have a inside centre who is brilliant defensively, but offers very little in attack.

 

[McTallshort]

Does anyone actually get offended by the singing during war dances or is it just the media trying to stir things up? Can't speak for other countries but as a NZer I love it and the players do too. Nothing better the atmosphere it all creates.

The media mainly, we have a bit of a thing in Britain were we have to openly look for people possibly being offended by someone (normally Jeremy Clarkson) and when possible offence is found then everyone gets on their high horse about it. The fact that the people who we believe are offended couldnt give a toss is irrelevent. Someones been offended! and now we must all put up with the ensuing witch hunt.

 

[TommiG88]

I'm not so knowledgable about the scrum. However can the no.8 bind between the flanker and lock?

 

[McTallshort]

I'm not so knowledgable about the scrum. However can the no.8 bind between the flanker and lock?

Depends on the move they are planning as long they are bound on the back of the scrum its fine.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Some of the feeding at scrum time was terrible, I thought we were meant to have sorted that out by now! The Fijian 15 practically put the ball at the feet of the second rows!

 

[TommiG88]

Depends on the move they are planning as long they are bound on the back of the scrum its fine.

Ok, that's fair enough. Well played Fiji then with the matawalu break.

 

[McTallshort]

Some of the feeding at scrum time was terrible, I thought we were meant to have sorted that out by now! The Fijian 15 practically put the ball at the feet of the second rows!

Yeah the ref was waiting for the TMO to flag it up...

 

[ncurd]

79:56.

Eh it's a marginal one it drops pretty straight (but I think marginally backwards (ITV player is rubbish and I can't get a HD feed)) and goes backwards when hits the ground. It's also a split second thing those kind of knock on's get missed all the time. Nothing to cry foul about really far bigger calls get missed than that one (even if it was one).

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However what's suppose to happen if the ref thinks it's marginally backwards (who has a better view and angle than we do)? The TMO isn't going to flag up a knock on unless it was clear, he can't go that far back when try is scored as it's well beyond two phases of play.

Absolutely nothing to get your nose bent out of shape over.

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Sorry completely wrong it's not a knock on as it hits his face.

DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON12
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
'Forward' means towards the opposing team's dead ball line.

 

[Maxwell]

Well I wasn't far off, England scored over 30 points and Fiji struggled to get 11.
England missed a couple of kicks and Fiji missed a hatful.
The teams tried their best and England deserved the victory...
However, there were some very disturbing refereeing decisions in that game.
The worst of them being a Fiji try being disallowed just as the conversion was about to be taken.
It was the right decision but as Johnny Wilkinson pointed out when do you stop going back to reverse a decision, at half time, at the end of the game.
If the try is awarded then it has to stand. It's down to the referee to have a look first before awarding the try if there is any doubt.
That was a very ugly precedent.
Then there was the strange and indeed harsh decision by the referee to upgrade the legal try scored by England early in the first half from a try to a penalty try and then add a yellow card to a Fijian player for something that would rarely if ever receive any card. It left Fiji right on the back foot and while they were a man down England scored 12 unanswered points and there was the game.
Fiji were pretty ordinary, which is Kiwi euphemism for downright average.
At times England were excellent.
At times they looked like they were playing in molasses.
The best player of the night was Mike Brown a livewire performance from fullback. He was the standout.
After that Englands best players were the Samoan Vunipola brothers and the Aussie centre Burgess, those three looked excellent when they came on and England definitely went up a gear. Wigglesworth also looked much better than Ben Youngs at halfback on the night.
A very iffy bonus point try for England in extra time that did not look it had touched the line from the important angle from behind the line but it was awarded and there will be more than a few eyebrows raised in the camps of other teams about important refereeing decisions being swayed by the roaring of the crowd.

Vunipola's are Tongan

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It was pretty clear he was looking for any opportunity to bin a Fijian

 

[LiRFCMatt]

If any Welshman says that England's singing over the Fijian Cibi was disrespectful just show them this...