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[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)
- Thread starter TRF_heineken
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**** it was all true
Team: Brown, Watson, Barritt, Burgess, May, Farrell, B Youngs, Marler, T Youngs, Cole, Parling, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Webber, M Vunipola, Brookes, Launchbury, Haskell, Wigglesworth, Ford, Goode.
Team: Brown, Watson, Barritt, Burgess, May, Farrell, B Youngs, Marler, T Youngs, Cole, Parling, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Webber, M Vunipola, Brookes, Launchbury, Haskell, Wigglesworth, Ford, Goode.
I've already accepted the loss and the knock out in the group stages seeing this team.
No change to the pack that struggled against Fiji and ransacked the backs.
Brown to cover a wing injury, he's proven to be not international standard in that position. Brown won't be changed so it's inevitable May will will be substited for Goode. Lancaster will not take off Farrell so he will be moved to 12 no matter what for Ford.
He's so bloody predictable. Watson can cover Full Back so why not have Nowell or Slade on the bench.
No change to the pack that struggled against Fiji and ransacked the backs.
Brown to cover a wing injury, he's proven to be not international standard in that position. Brown won't be changed so it's inevitable May will will be substited for Goode. Lancaster will not take off Farrell so he will be moved to 12 no matter what for Ford.
He's so bloody predictable. Watson can cover Full Back so why not have Nowell or Slade on the bench.
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UGH I dunno what annoy me most about this selection apart from the complete stupidity of changing the game plan.
WHY has Ford been dropped? Seriously opening 20 mins of loosing his head at the stade de france? If Lancaster wanted to drop him he should of done for Fiji at the latest.
WHY has players who have been severely underperforming like Marler been given a reprieve if Ford has been dropped? When there is an adequate replacement on the bench?
WHY GOODE WHY
Why Burgess? A man who barely impresses at center been selected over JJ like replacement in Slade?
Morgan for Billy is legit.
WHY has Ford been dropped? Seriously opening 20 mins of loosing his head at the stade de france? If Lancaster wanted to drop him he should of done for Fiji at the latest.
WHY has players who have been severely underperforming like Marler been given a reprieve if Ford has been dropped? When there is an adequate replacement on the bench?
WHY GOODE WHY
Why Burgess? A man who barely impresses at center been selected over JJ like replacement in Slade?
Morgan for Billy is legit.
I still don't think we'll loose this game but if we do Lancaster is going to ripped to shreds for this in Rugby media. If he'd just selected Slade like any sane person he'd have got away with loosing probably.
valley commando
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Is Goode Bad ? or ugly ?
He's a jack of all trades player, he offers no impact to a game at all.
Most subs will come on and make an impact, he'll blend in and offer nothing.
SelimNiai
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But won't do a whole lot wrong. Something he doesn't get anywhere near enough credit for. Yes, hes not a Le Roux-type game breaker but he's generally a solid, dependable player.
That said, I hope he comes on and throws 2 intercept tries, one of which to Samson Lee who flattens Farrell on his way to the line to win the game
*wakes up*
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Suspect Lancaster has always wanted to try this team.
Nowell is also a dependable player but he can make impact as well.
I hope Rob Andrew gets the sack as well.
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Trying to not get hysterical about it all......
But failing. This is madness! I can only assume is that on our ball, the plan is never to give the ball to the backs, ever. If by accident they do get it, Sam will smash into contact with all his smashy might! Over and over and over and over again. I'd love this plan if our pack had recently been obviously superior in every aspect to their opposition. I mean what would you need to ensure that a tight game absolutely guaranteed victory? Scrum dominance. Well we obviously have that nailed after watching Fiji push us around and the French positively had our front row looking at their own arses. O.K. so we'll kick for territory and use our superior lineout to bring the Welsh to their knees! Not on our throw ins we won't because Tom Youngs can be inaccurate. When it comes to stealing theirs? Possibly a strength, but a game winning one? Not for me. Well at least we'll have them nailed in the loose with our highly skilled breakdown specialists. What's that I hear you say? We don't have any? What's the plan then, stand around in a defensive line looking a bit stern whilst the ball gets turned over?
On their ball? Have a nice defensive line, tackle hard and hope they make a mistake. Don't aim to turn the ball over as it might leave a theoretical space somewhere that some magical Welsh johnnie might run through. Remember commit as few people to the breakdown as humanly possible chaps. A man on the ground is a man not defending another piece of ground!
Also there's a man management side to this. What is Ford to think? He needs to get bigger, slower and be able to kick further? What about Slade? They have rearranged a whole back-line to make sure he doesn't get a game. Goode must have been borne under a four leafed clover or something. He's not good enough to provide cover in any one of many positions Lancaster is likely to deploy him in.
People say that winning is everything. I'd suggest it absolutely is for Lancaster now. This selection looks like one made in fear. I'm not sure that's a good place to start to be honest. If he truly believes this is the best way to play the game and what is a depleted Welsh side turn us over at home. He's finished.
On edit - The more I think about it the worse it gets. So having shattered Ford's confidence for no reason whatsoever you include him on the bench to cover Andy's son. As an international 10 it's likely you'll see action at some point. George could be sent on to change the game! Apart from to do that he needs centres who are intuitive space finders and run clever lines. Well I'm not sure that's Sam. Brad? Even his mum wouldn't say that's his core skill set. So you could always bring on someone to change it up a bit? Wait a minute who have we got on the bench that might offer something different at centre? Oh yeah, Alex Goode! Well we could bring him on at full back, shift a few people around and use one of them with experience of playing centre to help out. Er... oh crap, no one has any experience of playing centre apart from er.... Owen Farrell! who you'd assume you'd take off due to fatigue and isn't an intuitive centre anyway.
This selection provides no plan B. None.
But failing. This is madness! I can only assume is that on our ball, the plan is never to give the ball to the backs, ever. If by accident they do get it, Sam will smash into contact with all his smashy might! Over and over and over and over again. I'd love this plan if our pack had recently been obviously superior in every aspect to their opposition. I mean what would you need to ensure that a tight game absolutely guaranteed victory? Scrum dominance. Well we obviously have that nailed after watching Fiji push us around and the French positively had our front row looking at their own arses. O.K. so we'll kick for territory and use our superior lineout to bring the Welsh to their knees! Not on our throw ins we won't because Tom Youngs can be inaccurate. When it comes to stealing theirs? Possibly a strength, but a game winning one? Not for me. Well at least we'll have them nailed in the loose with our highly skilled breakdown specialists. What's that I hear you say? We don't have any? What's the plan then, stand around in a defensive line looking a bit stern whilst the ball gets turned over?
On their ball? Have a nice defensive line, tackle hard and hope they make a mistake. Don't aim to turn the ball over as it might leave a theoretical space somewhere that some magical Welsh johnnie might run through. Remember commit as few people to the breakdown as humanly possible chaps. A man on the ground is a man not defending another piece of ground!
Also there's a man management side to this. What is Ford to think? He needs to get bigger, slower and be able to kick further? What about Slade? They have rearranged a whole back-line to make sure he doesn't get a game. Goode must have been borne under a four leafed clover or something. He's not good enough to provide cover in any one of many positions Lancaster is likely to deploy him in.
People say that winning is everything. I'd suggest it absolutely is for Lancaster now. This selection looks like one made in fear. I'm not sure that's a good place to start to be honest. If he truly believes this is the best way to play the game and what is a depleted Welsh side turn us over at home. He's finished.
On edit - The more I think about it the worse it gets. So having shattered Ford's confidence for no reason whatsoever you include him on the bench to cover Andy's son. As an international 10 it's likely you'll see action at some point. George could be sent on to change the game! Apart from to do that he needs centres who are intuitive space finders and run clever lines. Well I'm not sure that's Sam. Brad? Even his mum wouldn't say that's his core skill set. So you could always bring on someone to change it up a bit? Wait a minute who have we got on the bench that might offer something different at centre? Oh yeah, Alex Goode! Well we could bring him on at full back, shift a few people around and use one of them with experience of playing centre to help out. Er... oh crap, no one has any experience of playing centre apart from er.... Owen Farrell! who you'd assume you'd take off due to fatigue and isn't an intuitive centre anyway.
This selection provides no plan B. None.
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Interested to know what Twitter is saying - outrage? Shock? Anger?
This thing Hastings and others have said about lancaster panicking and Yoshmitsu above about a selection made in fear - whatever's going on here, I don't believe it's that.
The addition of Burgess to the backline means that overall it's NOT an outright conservative selection - it's just a strange one. Given that Barritt at 12 and Slade at 13 would have made more sense and in many ways been safer, I don't believe Lancaster has panicked - I think he's just plain wrong.
Peat is right of course - our best bet is to hope that Wales' prop situation is worse than our midfield one.
This thing Hastings and others have said about lancaster panicking and Yoshmitsu above about a selection made in fear - whatever's going on here, I don't believe it's that.
The addition of Burgess to the backline means that overall it's NOT an outright conservative selection - it's just a strange one. Given that Barritt at 12 and Slade at 13 would have made more sense and in many ways been safer, I don't believe Lancaster has panicked - I think he's just plain wrong.
Peat is right of course - our best bet is to hope that Wales' prop situation is worse than our midfield one.
While I'm sure I wouldn't be saying this if I was an England fan...I wouldn't panic over the selection. England still have every chance of winning this and I can guarantee there aren't any Welsh fans sitting back thinking 'well, this is in the bag now'. But I have to say the selection is bordering on bizarre and if England lose, Lancaster is going to be facing some serious sh...er, questioning. Questioning.
Now to wait for Wales' selection...fingers crossed for Samson's name on the team sheet...
Now to wait for Wales' selection...fingers crossed for Samson's name on the team sheet...
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Morning all - new to the forum but given its the RWC felt it was time to throw my hat in the ring.
Personally I don't agree with the selection, but can understand it. Seems to me that with JJ out you either Go Farrell, Barritt/Burgess, Slade or Ford, Burgess, Barritt to bolster the defense in a game like this. Ford hasn't done much wrong but Farrell has looked good towards the end of the season (prem final) and when he has had a chance from the bench.
But looking at the last few England games all the spark has come from the back 3 at any rate. I fully expect the game plan in attack is to incorporate Brown into the attacking line early and get him as the second playmaker in the midfield, and we are clearly going to look to put the pressure on territoriality, which makes sense in a game like this.
Not saying I agree with it, but the starting XV isn't all that insane. Having Goode on the bench with Ford just makes no sense at all to me though, leaves us with no proper centre/wing cover at all. Not sure what Jack Nowell/Henry Slade have done!
Personally I don't agree with the selection, but can understand it. Seems to me that with JJ out you either Go Farrell, Barritt/Burgess, Slade or Ford, Burgess, Barritt to bolster the defense in a game like this. Ford hasn't done much wrong but Farrell has looked good towards the end of the season (prem final) and when he has had a chance from the bench.
But looking at the last few England games all the spark has come from the back 3 at any rate. I fully expect the game plan in attack is to incorporate Brown into the attacking line early and get him as the second playmaker in the midfield, and we are clearly going to look to put the pressure on territoriality, which makes sense in a game like this.
Not saying I agree with it, but the starting XV isn't all that insane. Having Goode on the bench with Ford just makes no sense at all to me though, leaves us with no proper centre/wing cover at all. Not sure what Jack Nowell/Henry Slade have done!
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Hahaha, his positioning is the worst I've seen from an international fullback in.....well, I don't even know. He simply doesn't have the skillset to play England's game. He was massively exposed in the warm ups.
Doubt it, the press have a mass chub on for Goode, Farrell and Burgess' selections. They'll probably just question why Twelvetrees wasn't there.
Welcome to the forum! And yes that's exactly the bit I think is most perplexing, personally. Goode is a solid enough player I guess but I would have had Nowell and Slade in there in a heartbeat. Great players, very unlucky to miss out.
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