England v South Africa - 16/11/2024 (17.40)

[Reiser99]

England v South Africa: Jamie George says hosts have 'evolved' since World Cup defeat

Captain Jamie George says England have "evolved" from the side beaten by South Africa in the World Cup semi-finals last year.

www.bbc.com

The poster brenin brings up some good points in the comments section

Is there a term for when you evolve into something worse?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Borthwick's banging on about the law changes again. Don't want to turn the high ball stuff into Aussie Rules etc.

I think it's a good thing, and winning a competitive catch of a high ball is a real skill, at least much better than the 'innocent' blocking that's more akin to American football. When you think about how hard obstruction is penalised in any other phase of play that was totally inconsistent. But then again so's some of the anal stuff around whether a pass is forward by millimetres when the same ref is allowing the ball to be put into a scrum straight to the no8's feet.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You'd have thought he'd be all for it considering he's coach-by-numbers and Steward, Freeman and Roebuck all have crazy good numbers under the high ball

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Listening to good the bad the rugby on my long drive (after I'd gone through the other pods this week) and I find it really arrogant and annoying that they hold this, 'England are only millimetres off' view. It's all fine margins ********.

But we haven't improved and we arnt winning. I think we have great players and just need better selections and tactics. But I don't see that as fine margins, that's all controllable from a coaches point of view.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Listening to good the bad the rugby on my long drive (after I'd gone through the other pods this week) and I find it really arrogant and annoying that they hold this, 'England are only millimetres off' view. It's all fine margins ********.

But we haven't improved and we arnt winning. I think we have great players and just need better selections and tactics. But I don't see that as fine margins, that's all controllable from a coaches point of view.

Is that the Goode and Hamilton one? Fuxking unbearable.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Is that the Goode and Hamilton one? Fuxking unbearable.

Haskell, Tindall, Alex Payne.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You'd have thought he'd be all for it considering he's coach-by-numbers and Steward, Freeman and Roebuck all have crazy good numbers under the high ball

I do hope this rule doesn't bring us back to 2011-2019 when box kicks were more prominent and where wings and fullbacks were essentially the exact same player prototype with slightly different strengths and weaknesses.

Fullback has become a bit of a specialist playmaking position in the past 4 years and wings are far more varied types of player and it makes the game more entertaining aesthetically and tactically.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Steward pretty much neatralised our kicking game in the RWC SF. That said, the selection of Williams, Libbok and Fassi suggests to me that we will probably not be looking to employ the box kick as much as in the past.

On the defense of the high kick (expecting a number of testers considering the new interpretations of blocking the kick chase), Fassi is our best proponent only rivaled by Moodie. On the wings though I would not have been surprised to see Moodie exactly because of that but Kolbe and Arendse don't need much setup to get breaks which again tells me we are looking to move the ball rather than kick and chase if in the correct field positions.

 

[Saintjay]

I do hope this rule doesn't bring us back to 2011-2019 when box kicks were more prominent and where wings and fullbacks were essentially the exact same player prototype with slightly different strengths and weaknesses.

Fullback has become a bit of a specialist playmaking position in the past 4 years and wings are far more varied types of player and it makes the game more entertaining aesthetically and tactically.

A lot of talk that the refs have been over keen on enforcement of it. It'll be one of those laws they've been told to look at and fade away when something else comes along. Unintended consequences and all that.

The same with wanting to protecting nines but they are having a harder time at rucks at the moment.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Haskell, Tindall, Alex Payne.

**** me to hell and back absolutely no thank you

 

[Saintjay]

Jesus if that had a 70's disco funk sound track i thought it was an entirely different type of film.

The type of films Dad's had on VHS, that were kept in a secret box at the back of the wardrobe kind of film.

 

[Grizwald]

Steward I see as a special teams player, if the weather is filthy like it was in the world cup then his selection makes sense. To be honest my enduring memory is him putting a kick up which led to a knock on and one of the scrums that got dismantled.

I suppose that's also the danger this weekend if the idea is to kick more to contest more kicks with the new laws around blockers/escorts these 50:50 can go the other way and pontentially lead to more scrums where the Boks can eek a penalty or free kick. As someone else mentioned I think the refereeing of this will change as sides adapt and milk ot causing more issues than it was intended to address.

Alot of the English players are going to need their best game in a white shirt to have a chance of taking this. Feel like the backrow and a lesser extent the whole pack balance was off for the first two games, what was gained in size was lost in mobility so it may be a better fit for the Boks.

At least the 2021 victory showed its posisble to win depsite getting taken apart up front. However this Boks team is better, more experienced and if it's tight have proven to be serial winners.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

**** me to hell and back absolutely no thank you

It's quite impressive that Tindall is the biggest stain on it.

Kept quiet in the presence of Johnny at least.

I skim through the rugby pod from time to time around internationals and when something interesting is happening or has happened in the URC or Heino. Goode can offer decent analysis in some areas of the game and I quite like Hamilton even if he barely knows anything about

 

[AlRums]

Rugby’s ‘escort’ crackdown prompts disgruntled Borthwick to change tack | Robert Kitson

Shape of the game has tilted significantly since the latest law tweak that risks tactical monotony and a lack of charm

www.theguardian.com

 

[Which Tyler]

England coach annoyed about a "change" that sees existing laws actually enforced - meaning that if you're offside, you're not allowed to influence the game until retreating (or played) back onside.

FTFY

 

[IT157]

England v South Africa: Can hosts keep faith in the blitz?

England have invested time and expertise in their new high-tempo defence. As the defeats stack up, have they got enough faith to see it through against the world champions?

www.bbc.com

 

[McTallshort]

Let's be honest the Boks should win this but I just want to see a good 80 minute performance from England and most of all an entertaining, competitive game like I have seen in the last 2 England games which they lost by very narrow margins.

 

[Jimbo]

I want SA to turn up and play some good stuff, the last thing we need is for them to see England as what they currently are (useless) and end up losing, this will simply give SB far to much underserved grace, I am pleased to see underhill re-introduced but still baffled why he wasn't there anyway he is a unique player in the England setup, for a fair time I recall England playing some pretty good stuff doing well in games losing the momentum and then struggling to regain it or stem the oppositions, we literally have no better player for that purpose than Underhill, look back at his England involvements and you will continuously see it, the one which really stands out in my memory was that Semi final win over NZ.