[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[Big Ewis]

Date: 14 June 2014
Location: Dunedin
Referee: Jaco Peyper

​

So this is New Zealand vs England (First Test 2...or simply Test 2).
England get a bunch of their players back, including their fearsome cheese-burger eating machine at no.8, but may want to preserve a lot of that lineup that produced such a quality game for them last weekend at Eden Paaahhhk.
For New Zealand, Hansen has said Kieran Read and Julian Savea are looking to make their return to test Rugby. Kieran Read is very likely to be playing at this hour, and Dagg is the other injury concern the AB's have got.

Who knows what this test will produce, but by the looks of it England are easily the most focused and sharp we've seen them since Lancaster's taken over a couple of years ago and both teams will be a lot closer to full strength and where they want to be relatively to the first test. Less "rust" for the hosts (Hansen estimated the AB's test 1 performance at 70%), and more power for the tourists.

 

[chippieolamus]

Hello, this is my first post here

I was wondering what other people's starting XVs for the second test either England or the ABs would be?
My England team:

1) Joe Marler
2) Dylan Hartley
3) Dave Wilson
4) Joe Launchbury
5) Courtney Lawes
6) Tom Wood
7) Chris Robshaw
8) Billy Vunipola/Ben Morgan

9) Danny Care
10) Owen Farrell
11) Manu Tuilagi
12) Billy Twelvetrees/Kyle Eastmond
13) Luther Burrell
14) Marland Yarde
15) Mike Brown

16) Alex Waller
17) Rob Webber
18) Henry Thomas/Kyle Sinckler
19) Geoff Parling/ Dave Attwood
20) Ben Morgan/Billy Vunipola
21) Lee Dickson
22) Freddie Burns
23) Jonny May

 

[Big Ewis]

welcome.
Tuilagi on the wing, huh ?...
Brodie Retallica finally gets to meet Michael again.

 

[Rich Taff]

Hello, this is my first post here

I was wondering what other people's starting XVs for the second test either England or the ABs would be?
My England team:

1) Joe Marler
2) Dylan Hartley
3) Dave Wilson
4) Joe Launchbury
5) Courtney Lawes
6) Tom Wood
7) Chris Robshaw
8) Billy Vunipola/Ben Morgan

9) Danny Care
10) Owen Farrell
11) Manu Tuilagi
12) Billy Twelvetrees/Kyle Eastmond
13) Luther Burrell
14) Marland Yarde
15) Mike Brown

16) Alex Waller
17) Rob Webber
18) Henry Thomas/Kyle Sinckler
19) Geoff Parling/ Dave Attwood
20) Ben Morgan/Billy Vunipola
21) Lee Dickson
22) Freddie Burns
23) Jonny May

First up, welcome to TRF.

Agree with Ewis, don't really see Tuilagi as a winger.
Also would swap out Wilson. He scrummaged well, but was at fault for at least two, maybe three missed try scoring opportunities, whether by dropping the ball, or failing to pass. If he doesn't have the ball skills to pull it off, he shouldn't be the one in those support positions.

 

[goodNumber10]

Also would swap out Wilson. He scrummaged well, but was at fault for at least two, maybe three missed try scoring opportunities, whether by dropping the ball, or failing to pass. If he doesn't have the ball skills to pull it off, he shouldn't be the one in those support positions.

Wilson is a brilliant ball handling prop, he just had a bad night, as did Brown imho.

Also, welcome Chippie!

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Owen Farrell wasn't pick for the squad was he ? btw i want to see cipriani starting at 10 next game

 

[Rich Taff]

Wilson is a brilliant ball handling prop, he just had a bad night, as did Brown imho.

Also, welcome Chippie!

Maybe the occasion got to him. I know he's ridiculously young (I remember him playing in the jnr game and thinking 'check that guys birth certificate for wet ink!').

I was shocked in the first half. Brown went from being England's best player to their worst for the first 25 minutes. Dont think he caught a ball (pass or kick) until about the 26th minute. Definitely a game to forget for him.

Oh, and I was really impressed by Cipriani when he came on. He's always had talent, but fame seemed to go to his head. Especially when he married Charlot.....no wait, that's the other talented guy who pretty much wasted it.

 

[Big Ewis]

Brown did beat 8 defenders in test 1. His baldness is almighty.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think Lancaster will choose:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola (really tough on Ben Morgan, but I think Binny is Lancaster's first choice 8)

9. Care
10. Farrell
11. May. He did nothing wrong and I'd hate Lancaster to drop him for Ashton
12. Twelvetrees. Eastmond had a blinder, but Lancaster has persevered with 36 for a reason and if he's fit, he plays)
13. Tuilagi. I don't think Lancaster will put him on the wing. He is just a wrecking ball that gets Emgland over the gain line in midfield and the ABs are scared of him.
14. Yarde
15. Brown

16. Webber
17. Mullen
18. Thomas
19. Parling
20. Morgan
21. Dickson
22. Burns
23. Foden

The All Blacks, I think their 15 will only change with Savea and Read coming back, assuming they're fit:

1. Woodcock
2. Coles
3. Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Read

9. A Smith
10. Cruden
11. Savea
12. Nonu
13. C Smith
14. B Smith
15. Dagg

16. Mealamu
17. Crockett
18. Faumauina
19. Tuipulotu
20. Messam
21. Perenara
22. Barrett
23. Jane

Hansen will probably stick with Messam at 6, with Kaino on the bench, but I would love to see how Wood, Robshaw and Binny match up versus the 2011 World Cup winning back row.

 

[Jaguares]

McCaw critical of rusty ABs:

Like it Thanks to a 78th minute Conrad Smith try, the All Blacks avoided their first defeat in 20 years at Eden park on Saturday, beating England 20-15. But Richie McCaw warned his team mates after the match that they would have to lift their game to take the series. "We were a bit rusty in the first half. Test rugby is a step up in intensity and pace and it felt like we were half a yard off it," McCaw said.

English coach Steve Lancaster was forced to rest as many as 10 Test regulars due to club commitments, but a few replacements may have earned a starting spot for the second Test, such as the standout young flyhalf Freddie Burns.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-uni...ail&utm_term=0_53e97ccfb4-6c07fa41c8-63589685

 

[nzlizard]

The All Blacks, I think their 15 will only change with Savea and Read coming back, assuming they're fit:

1. Woodcock
2. Coles
3. Franks
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Read

9. A Smith
10. Cruden
11. Savea
12. Nonu
13. C Smith
14. B Smith
15. Dagg

16. Mealamu
17. Crockett
18. Faumauina
19. Tuipulotu
20. Messam
21. Perenara
22. Barrett
23. Jane

Hansen will probably stick with Messam at 6, with Kaino on the bench, but I would love to see how Wood, Robshaw and Binny match up versus the 2011 World Cup winning back row.

I am a huge Messam fan but if Read is fit Kaino should start at 6, Messam is great, Kaino is god mode.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I am a huge Messam fan but if Read is fit Kaino should start at 6, Messam is great, Kaino is god mode.

Agreed, kaino > messam

People thing dagg will get another start? How about cruden? Spent the game kicking away position ...poorly

 

[austingtir]

Agreed, kaino > messam

People thing dagg will get another start? How about cruden? Spent the game kicking away position ...poorly

If he starts Dagg in this test I would assume we are probably going to have to put up with him for the rest of the year if we dont loose many games. Im pretty sure Cruden will start when you think about it he is far more experienced than barrett for an important test like this one.

Dagg for me is a coil flip and Cruden is 98% starter. My gut feeling is Dagg will start though...

This is by far one of the most interesting team namings in years for me (both sides) it will be very telling on what Hansens upto. IMO he's got to make atleast 4 changes otherwise we are very likely to loose this match.

 

[donmcdazzle]

13. Tuilagi. I don't think Lancaster will put him on the wing. He is just a wrecking ball that gets Emgland over the gain line in midfield and the ABs are scared of him.

I don't think people get scared of each other in international footy do they? He is effective for sure but to say the AB's are scared of him is a bit weird.

Dagg just has to go if Savea is fit. Get Smith at the back and Jane on the right wing.

 

[RoosTah]

McCaw critical of rusty ABs:

Like it Thanks to a 78th minute Conrad Smith try, the All Blacks avoided their first defeat in 20 years at Eden park on Saturday, beating England 20-15. But Richie McCaw warned his team mates after the match that they would have to lift their game to take the series. "We were a bit rusty in the first half. Test rugby is a step up in intensity and pace and it felt like we were half a yard off it," McCaw said.

English coach Steve Lancaster was forced to rest as many as 10 Test regulars due to club commitments, but a few replacements may have earned a starting spot for the second Test, such as the standout young flyhalf Freddie Burns.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-uni...ail&utm_term=0_53e97ccfb4-6c07fa41c8-63589685

Success on this tour is absolutely vital if England any chance of getting the psychological edge necessary to beat the All Blacks at home next year should they face them. They looked close on Saturday, but the All Blacks played terrible rugby, dropping the ball and falling off tackles in one of their classic "first test of the year" performances. The fact that they still won is quite incredible.


England have a lot more talent to choose from this week, but There was an interesting little article in the NZ herald suggesting England aren't all that fit too, so you can bet the ABs will using quick line-outs and restarts every chance they get to run the obviously aerobically challenged poms next week.

 

[squirrel]

seems to me that England have some serious depth in their squad these days, group stage exit for Australia next year

 

[nzlizard]

Agreed, kaino > messam

People thing dagg will get another start? How about cruden? Spent the game kicking away position ...poorly

Cruden will start, he is the experienced incumbent who will be needed for this test.

As for Dagg who knows, Hansen seems to have this thing for him and always gives him a couple of games to get in eye in. If he doesn't play I imagine they will put it down to injury not form. If Dagg doesn't play may go: 11. Savea, 14.Jane, 15. Smith and then Barrett and Fekitoa on the bench. When you look at it like that we are quite light on quality reserves in the back 3 with Dagg out of form and Piutau injured, we have players but experience is light.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I don't think people get scared of each other in international footy do they? He is effective for sure but to say the AB's are scared of him is a bit weird.

Dagg just has to go if Savea is fit. Get Smith at the back and Jane on the right wing.

Scared in the sense that they do not like playing against him; he busted through McCaw yet again in the tackle and just kept making yards in midfield. It was very reminiscent of the how McCaw fell off the tackle when England beat the All Blacks at Twickenham.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9342745,00.html

Maybe I was wrong about Tuilagi on the wing.

 

[goodNumber10]

Success on this tour is absolutely vital if England any chance of getting the psychological edge necessary to beat the All Blacks at home next year should they face them. They looked close on Saturday, but the All Blacks played terrible rugby, dropping the ball and falling off tackles in one of their classic "first test of the year" performances. The fact that they still won is quite incredible.

I think they will be looking for the win but I don't subscribe to this being absolutely essential for the world cup. The World Cup is at home, this England Squad have already beaten them at home - they will know they can raise their game to a level they can beat them with - and lets face facts their is really only one way for NZ to go they are top of the world right now someone will take that place at some point, the top 4 will all be confident of taking each other out come next year.

i'm more worried about Australia.

England have a lot more talent to choose from this week, but There was an interesting little article in the NZ herald suggesting England aren't all that fit too, so you can bet the ABs will using quick line-outs and restarts every chance they get to run the obviously aerobically challenged poms next week.

Awful sh*t stirring garbage article, and pointing the finger in completly the wrong direction. NEw Zealand play everything at pace always have, but you don't have to worry about Englands fitness.

Scared in the sense that they do not like playing against him; he busted through McCaw yet again in the tackle and just kept making yards in midfield. It was very reminiscent of the how McCaw fell off the tackle when England beat the All Blacks at Twickenham.

Smith struggles to contain Tuilagi for sure. There was lot's of cynical play when england made line breaks - prime example is Smith (9) deliberatley running through the passing line early on etc... New Zealand were slowing the game down tons on opposition ball, because they didn't want Tuilaigi, Brown et al coming onto the ball at pace (for obvious reasons).