[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[Ragey Erasmus]

Do any other countries have such a rule that you need to play for clubs in the country to be eligible for the national team?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Australia and New Zealand.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If Cole went, we'd still pick him.

No we wouldn't.

The PRL would simply withdraw from the EPS agreement and tell the RFU to **** themselves if that happened.

 

[Aristodemus]

It's not about Armitage, it's about England and as others have said him being selected from France would be very bad for our future. I think we need to do more to keep these guys here, it is working for the most part but we need all our talent to compete with the best. Our RFU is far richer than any in world rugby and I think a successful national team is a better recruitment tool for young talent than anything else money can assist with. Raising match fee's to a level that will compete with or surpass French club wages? Or likewise with an EPS squad payment. If we end up losing the amount of talent NZ are currently, we will suffer badly (not that we have that level of talent heh, an exodus XV of kiwi's would still be better than England).

 

[ratsapprentice]

Raise the match fee?

They get 15k per game...

 

[Tmartin995]

It's not about Armitage, it's about England and as others have said him being selected from France would be very bad for our future. I think we need to do more to keep these guys here, it is working for the most part but we need all our talent to compete with the best. Our RFU is far richer than any in world rugby and I think a successful national team is a better recruitment tool for young talent than anything else money can assist with. Raising match fee's to a level that will compete with or surpass French club wages? Or likewise with an EPS squad payment. If we end up losing the amount of talent NZ are currently, we will suffer badly (not that we have that level of talent heh, an exodus XV of kiwi's would still be better than England).

Quite frankly I'd say the honour of representing your country should be the factor that makes you stay in England, not some kind of financial incentive. We don't want to end up going down the route of football where international competitions mean next to nothing when compared with club games. If they would rather play abroad than play for England, then fine, they've relinquished the opportunity to play for England, which is still IMO the highest level of rugby.

 

[Patchey]

Remember, Armitage already has 5 (I think) caps but hardly had a great experience in the set up. He's just won back to back Heineken Cups, is paid better than most other professional rugby players and enjoys a quality of life that he probably won't find in London or Northampton or Leicester. Rugby careers are not long and rarely are they very financially rewarding (although that is changing). If he thinks staying in France is best for him and his family, I'm absolutely fine with that. Maybe the caps he has already is enough for him. At least he isn't like his brother who seems to think England should make an exception!

As long as we keep the no foreign based players rule the only guys we'll have move overseas are those who are too old, out of favour, not good enough or who, like Armitage, do so because it's right for them. I think that's. Very good system to have. I don't feel the need to lure players back with even bigger match fees or by taking exceptions unless we truly are buggered by injury.

Also, the fact that two of the three best rugby nations in the world have the same system suggests it's quite good.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rumours on twitter that Marler may not be fit for the first test...

 

[ratsapprentice]

Marler's injury is supposedly very minor... who's said he's possibly out?

 

[Big Ewis]

is there any chance he could change his name to "Moe Jarler" ? Much more attractive. Makes you want to meet a guy called 'Moe Jarler'.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Marler's injury is supposedly very minor... who's said he's possibly out?

Just general murmurs - I imagine they've seen "slight ****le" and then crapped themselves at the thought of a Mullan/Catt loosehead combo*.



*not a slight against their ability, but not exactly the experience level you want going into a test at Eden park.

 

[Aristodemus]

They may well get £15k per game but it isn't enough to compete with the wages French clubs can offer. Lets say they play 75% of England fixtures in a year, that equates to around 110k on top of the club wage. It isn't as much as a top player could earn in France, and when someone has a short career and a family to support who could blame them for taking the money. I would like to think that I (if I was a player) and every England international would choose to represent their nation but it isn't and won't be the case. I couldn't care less about Armitage, if he was playing in England I would want him in the team but he isn't so I don't consider him an option. It is about the guys we haven't even heard of yet. Fringe players are even more fragile, just look at the talent NZ have lost over the last few years.

 

[Jaguares]

My team:

1. Joe Marler
2. -
3. David Wilson
4. Joe Launchbury
5. -
6. James Haskell
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Ben Morgan
9. Danny Care
10. Freddie Burns
11. Jonny May
12. Billy Twelvetrees
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Marland Yarde
15. Mike Brown

 

[goodNumber10]

Armitage isn't anywhere near good enough to destroy an already creaking agreement, nor to smash the salary cap over.

We don't even know his form will transfer to the international game (and lets face facts it's highly likely it wont).

Lancaster is on record as saying he should be playing international Rugby, that's about as close to a promise of caps as he's likely to get so really when it all boils down to it the ball is in his court - come back and get caps, or stay in France and earn some money.

If he comes back and gets into a successful England team he's likely to drive his price up with the French clubs anyway.

I just don't think either he or his brother care much about the England problem, and why should they?

 

[kesh]

Would i pick SA ahead of Robshaw? - For some teams and conditions, possibly, against better sides no.

I'm not sure what the need is... wouldn't start 8 or 6, i didn't see or hear anyone call for a rule break when Corbs was injuried and a new to international standard football Joe Marler, had to face the king of the hit Adams Jones in the 6N decider. We had a in form (at the time) big Andy to call up. Yet nothing.

Would back the PL position all the way.

 

[McTallshort]

Quite frankly I'd say the honour of representing your country should be the factor that makes you stay in England, not some kind of financial incentive. We don't want to end up going down the route of football where international competitions mean next to nothing when compared with club games. If they would rather play abroad than play for England, then fine, they've relinquished the opportunity to play for England, which is still IMO the highest level of rugby.

Well thats not really true is it? The Football world cup and European championships are as big as they have ever been and as for the honour of representing your country etc etc its a short career and the players need to make what money they can.

 

[TheSaffycen]

In football you get guys like Ashley Cole saying how they would rather win things with Chelsea than with England, you don't want this happening with rugby. Even Gareth Bale who played in the champions league final is now injured again so is not going to play for Wales.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

November test on o2 priority tickets are up. against the big 3 the tickets are £90ish although you can get the NZ tickets @ £57.80, just ordered 3 adult and 1 kid for the Samoan game at 327.80 per adult ticket and £10.80 a kid good value I thought.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Well thats not really true is it? The Football world cup and European championships are as big as they have ever been and as for the honour of representing your country etc etc its a short career and the players need to make what money they can.

But each of those only last for a month and take place every four years. Every international rugby match is important for the likes of the All Blacks, the same cannot be said for the Spanish football team!

In football you get guys like Ashley Cole saying how they would rather win things with Chelsea than with England, you don't want this happening with rugby. Even Gareth Bale who played in the champions league final is now injured again so is not going to play for Wales.

Wales aren't even in the World Cup though, so it's not too big a deal

 

[j'nuh]

In football you get guys like Ashley Cole saying how they would rather win things with Chelsea than with England, you don't want this happening with rugby. Even Gareth Bale who played in the champions league final is now injured again so is not going to play for Wales.

Well, the England football team has been a horrible place to be for years. The expectation of the fans, the national attention to incessant failure (especially given that England had their supposed "golden generation" with Gerrard, Lampard, Cole etc.). At least with Chelsea, he tasted success and wasn't regarded as a let-down to his fans.

Anyway, to be honest, I prefer Gloucester to England. It doesn't make you a bad person to prefer the club-side of sports...