[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Crusaders vs England XV

[ratsapprentice]

I've not seen enough of him to really comment but he is really better than robshaw?

Why Robshaw?

Wood is the one he's competing against.

 

[goodNumber10]

Why Robshaw?

Wood is the one he's competing against.

why would he be competing against Wood? or are you making the captain point?

 

[St George]

Kvesic was superb, getting to ruck after ruck and slowing the Crusaders' ball down at the breakdown. Got one or two turnovers as well. Well taken try by Anthony Watson; he's got pace and a rugby brain to find the angles and gap. Surely an England regular in the next 2-3 years.

Pleased to see they both had good games, and it was the first time i have seen Pennell who i also think bodes well for the future.
I believe we have some very good players alround, but we miss true World Class players in enough positions to warrant being called World beaters just yet. Time will tell.

 

[ratsapprentice]

why would he be competing against Wood? or are you making the captain point?

Why would he be competing with Robshaw instead of Wood - both Robshaw and Wood play 7 for their clubs.

In what circumstances can you see Robshaw being dropped?
The only one is if he has a massive drop off in form, or an injury.
Wood on the other hand isn't as consistently good, and isn't captain.

 

[goodNumber10]

but Wood is seen as a 6 (Blind) by England.

Kvesic seems to be seen as a 7 by Lancaster - or open side. I'm presuming, here, that England don't play open side at 6.

So i'd say there are other people he's competing against, like Haskell and Johnson ahead of competing with Robshaw/Wood. Kvesic's number one short term goal has to be to secure a bench spot, and the question is, is he versatile enough to do that?

And i can't see Robshaw getting dropped, and don't think he should be. Hence me saying are you making the captain point.

 

[Peat]

Well, they play Wood at 6, and he's a club openside, so...

Robshaw could play blindside. He might be better off playing blindside. Kvesic and Robshaw should be workable.

And I think Kvesic is at least as versatile as Johnson.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't think he'd be dropped on form, no. He wouldn't be dropped because he's captain - but until he starts playing badly then it's entirely irrelevant.

It's clear to me that Lancaster doesn't think of Robshaw as a 7 - he just doesn't want to engage with the argument over semantics/shirt number due to the rigidity with which some pundits/the public think of the roles.
When Lancaster says "Robshaw is an openside" he really means: "you don't need a traditional 7" IMO.

I don't think he would have any issues with the balance of a Kvesic/Robshaw combo.

Unless you use a Launchbury/Slater type player as your last forward on the bench then Kvesic is as versatile as it gets.

 

[St George]

My 2p worth....Steffon Armitage is regarded as one of the best 7s in Europe, and Toulon played him at 8 for the HC. He still managed to win alot of ball as a traditional 7 type of player. Maybe its the job you are asked to do and not so much the number on your back?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Haskell should be the one pressuring Wood for his shirt.

 

[ratsapprentice]

My 2p worth....Steffon Armitage is regarded as one of the best 7s in Europe, and Toulon played him at 8 for the HC. He still managed to win alot of ball as a traditional 7 type of player. Maybe its the job you are asked to do and not so much the number on your back?

Precisely.

 

[Peat]

Haskell should be the one pressuring Wood for his shirt.

Everyone should be pressuring Wood for his shirt. No huge fault of his really, he's a good player who's served England well, but he's too similar to Robshaw and Launchbury to keep unless he's exceptional, which he isn't as a rule. Time to find someone who fits the balance better.

 

[St George]

Haskell should be the one pressuring Wood for his shirt.

I think he was unlucky to be downgraded in the first place, as i dont think he had a poor WC.

Imo we are blessed to have such varied options in the Backrow with combinations of Robshaw, Wood, Kvesic, Haskell, Morgan & Billy V.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Everyone should be pressuring Wood for his shirt. No huge fault of his really, he's a good player who's served England well, but he's too similar to Robshaw and Launchbury to keep unless he's exceptional, which he isn't as a rule. Time to find someone who fits the balance better.

What is the point because we all know croft is the best England 6.

 

[St George]

Everyone should be pressuring Wood for his shirt. No huge fault of his really, he's a good player who's served England well, but he's too similar to Robshaw and Launchbury to keep unless he's exceptional, which he isn't as a rule. Time to find someone who fits the balance better.

I think this is a very good point, as i for one was looking forward to seeing him establish himself after the WC2011, but his injury (resulting in Robshaw becoming Capt.) has allowed Robshaw to become established instead and Woods just hasnt been the exceptional player necessary to become 1st choice.

 

[St George]

What is the point because we all know croft is the best England 6.

Jeez forgot about him....er...er....

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I don't understand why people don't rate wood. He is the best 6 we have to offer, tackling work rate, rucking. He does all the 6 role so so well.

Additionally I think he is one of the most consistent players for England.

He plays 6 a lot at club level too depending on who partners him. A lot of this is down to jim malinder joining the Lancaster school of 'I don't need a traditional open side' .

With Dawson he plays 6 with Clarke he plays 7! Random

 

[Patchey]

I don't think we don't rate him, but we've got so many good back row options and he isn't our captain so he's always going to be the one to drop if we want to try out another flanker.

The way he gets talked about as a leader by the management though I can see him being captain post 2015. I think he would have been had he not been broken in 2012.

Can't wait to see highlights of this game. Want to see how Hask and Ceviche worked well. I think for a World Cup group game (although maybe no this time) and/or some less important 6N games they'd be a great option to rest Robshaw and Wood.

 

[Jaguares]

It's too difficult for a team to face a national team without their best players.

 

[Aedaphon]

It's too difficult for a team to face a national team without their best players.

Tell that to Munster.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

If we are going to start this England no.7/true openside debate. My 2 cents worth: Lancaster needs to be confident that Billy or Ben can put in a 80 minute shift. If so, then he can put Kvesic on the bench and he comes on to replace Wood and Robshaw shifts across to play the 6/blindside role and Kvesic plays the 7/Openside role England are crying out for.

With Cole out injured, we're really looking at Launchbury doing a lot of the Jackaling work on the floor and he's not looked at his best in the last two matches.