[2013 TRC] South Africa vs. New Zealand in Johannesburg (05/10/2013)

[Draggs]

Why was Franco out into the 23 before PSdT? du Toit was in the squad before him, so logically he would have been preferred, right?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why was Franco out into the 23 before PSdT? du Toit was in the squad before him, so logically he would have been preferred, right?

Actually, Franco has been part of the group since the June internationals...

 

[Draggs]

I am aware of that, but he was not in the most recent squad, only called up to replace Flip.

 

[Larksea]

the one factor that should give the ABs a huge boost if used well is the bench

First and foremost Bauden Barrett should get a good 20min or so, hes been very safe and providing genuine impact. His speed can make tiring opposition look ordinary.
Piutau could also make a big impact later on, hard to figure out who to bring off, right now you would have to say Dagg straight swap or Nonu and bring Smith into mid field
Bringing off nonu for Piutau actually had a double positive effect in that last game - piutau's speed on the field and Ben Smith got the ball more.

Cane, Luatua, Crockett, Coles, TKB also have good potential to make impact.

It is a bit tricky how to get Cane and Luatua involved. The obvious thing to do is bring Messam off but he is the type of player that gets better as the game goes on, as we saw last week he had a measured 1st half then a very impressive 2nd half before being subbed

TKBs contributions off the bench have been a bit below par but hes due

outside the bench the key is Aaron Smith and Cruden, they kinda struggled a bit last game and was pretty much the missing ingredient from what would have been a very complete team performance.

Dagg has had some big, and memorable performances against the Boks. In fact hes scored two of the more important tries in away games against the boks of the modern era. Would be good to see him have a big game. Get more chances to come in as first receiver with quick ball.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

If they pick Franco over Pieter-Steph, don't use the experience as an excuse. Both players are uncapped so just pick the young guy. He's not in the starting line-up, he's on the bench. Give the guy a chance.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

If they pick Franco over Pieter-Steph, don't use the experience as an excuse. Both players are uncapped so just pick the young guy. He's not in the starting line-up, he's on the bench. Give the guy a chance.

Franco's spent more time in the Boks camp, so he probably knows the plays better, is what I'd assume.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Franco's spent more time in the Boks camp, so he probably knows the plays better, is what I'd assume.

Yeah, I think that's probably the only reason why. Perhaps PSDT is a plan for the EOYT?? Ellis Park is also Franco's home field, which could have a minor impact also.

Am I the only one thinking that the NZ scrum should be a big target for the Boks? With Faumuina starting?? he hasn't impressed me at all at scrum time, and I think Beast will love to break his back in Beast's 50th test. Also, Wyatt Crocket on the bench is another liability at scrum time. I have read many articles suggesting that the new scrum laws will be a big disadvantage to the taller props such as Crocket.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Yeah, I think that's probably the only reason why. Perhaps PSDT is a plan for the EOYT?? Ellis Park is also Franco's home field, which could have a minor impact also.

Am I the only one thinking that the NZ scrum should be a big target for the Boks? With Faumuina starting?? he hasn't impressed me at all at scrum time, and I think Beast will love to break his back in Beast's 50th test. Also, Wyatt Crocket on the bench is another liability at scrum time. I have read many articles suggesting that the new scrum laws will be a big disadvantage to the taller props such as Crocket.

I'm definitely with you on that front. It is a huge test for Faumu'ina. He is great around the paddock but he really needs to come good at the scrum.. I'm very worried.
If Crockett gets on it could be ugly for us too. I've read a whole lot of media saying he is a great scrummager, but all I ever see is him getting repeatedly penalised, which is suicidal at altitude given Steyn's punting and goalkicking accuracy.

I'm sure our back three has been doing a lot of high ball practice, because a thorough examination on that front will be guaranteed.

 

[donmcdazzle]

the one factor that should give the ABs a huge boost if used well is the bench

First and foremost Bauden Barrett should get a good 20min or so, hes been very safe and providing genuine impact. His speed can make tiring opposition look ordinary.
Piutau could also make a big impact later on, hard to figure out who to bring off, right now you would have to say Dagg straight swap or Nonu and bring Smith into mid field
Bringing off nonu for Piutau actually had a double positive effect in that last game - piutau's speed on the field and Ben Smith got the ball more.

Cane, Luatua, Crockett, Coles, TKB also have good potential to make impact.

It is a bit tricky how to get Cane and Luatua involved. The obvious thing to do is bring Messam off but he is the type of player that gets better as the game goes on, as we saw last week he had a measured 1st half then a very impressive 2nd half before being subbed

TKBs contributions off the bench have been a bit below par but hes due

outside the bench the key is Aaron Smith and Cruden, they kinda struggled a bit last game and was pretty much the missing ingredient from what would have been a very complete team performance.

Dagg has had some big, and memorable performances against the Boks. In fact hes scored two of the more important tries in away games against the boks of the modern era. Would be good to see him have a big game. Get more chances to come in as first receiver with quick ball.

I would usually agree with you there Larksea, Messam does usually go well for 80 minutes. But using the same logic as you have with Barrett; Luatua has potential to come on and do some damage with his running game against tiring legs. 60 minutes at altitude against the ABSA pack is probably more than equivalent of a full 80 against any other side too.

 

[ABs2011]

I'm definitely with you on that front. It is a huge test for Faumu'ina. He is great around the paddock but he really needs to come good at the scrum.. I'm very worried.
If Crockett gets on it could be ugly for us too. I've read a whole lot of media saying he is a great scrummager, but all I ever see is him getting repeatedly penalised, which is suicidal at altitude given Steyn's punting and goalkicking accuracy.

I'm sure our back three has been doing a lot of high ball practice, because a thorough examination on that front will be guaranteed.

Were we watching the same game? The NZ scrum got significantly better when Faumuina came on. One of his strengths is his scumaging.
In saying that, yes, I think the Boks should target our scrum.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Were we watching the same game? The NZ scrum got significantly better when Faumuina came on. One of his strengths is his scumaging.
In saying that, yes, I think the Boks should target our scrum.

A one-game sample is rather small. Especially as Argy rung the changes as well. I'm talking about in general, Charlie is hardly known as a scrumming colussus. Solid sure, but he needs to be all of that and more on the weekend.

 

[nickdnz]

Charlie also got murdered against the Boks the week before..

 

[yarmolinsky]

My bet is NZ victory with BP.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Were we watching the same game? The NZ scrum got significantly better when Faumuina came on. One of his strengths is his scumaging.
In saying that, yes, I think the Boks should target our scrum.

I think the fact that Franks was injured was a major factor in our poor scrum against Argentina. Like Nick said, Faumuina wasn't particularly impressive a couple of weeks earlier when it came to scrummaging.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Charlie also got murdered against the Boks the week before..

At that stage in the game the Boks had 7 forwards, and had to sacrifice big Willem Alberts too...

 

[Darwin]

Faumuina has improved his scrummaging a lot over the last couple of years, but as others have mentioned his scrummaging is not as strong as some other aspects of his game. He is certainly not a poor scrummager, but he is certainly not in the same league as Owen Franks (when he is 100% fit) at scrum time. The AB's scrum is certainly not as strong as it has been in the past - Woodcock and Hore are past their best, Coles is not renowned as a powerful scrummager, Crockett is a penalty magnet, and the AB's are lacking a powerful scrummaging TH lock with Thorn gone and Romano injured (Retallick is a phenomenal talent, but is still growing into the TH lock role).

However.... I'm still not convinced that South Africa have scrum to exploit the AB's weakness. The AB's have generally matched (or bettered) the same South African front row over the last few years - obviously the new laws could make a difference, however I'm not convinced South Africa will have as much of an edge at scrum time as many are predicting (indeed I expect the scrums to be very even). Though I'm not a big fan of Van der Merwe he is known as a powerful scrummager, so I feel it will be missed at scrum time.

It is another set-piece - the lineout - that I'm more worried about. Our lineout hasn't been as efficient this season as it has been over the last two years, and I expect South Africa will target it (Etzebeth and Kruger are both superb lineout exponents in my opinion). South Africa's lineout has been brilliant this season, and their rolling maul is a real weapon - the AB's will have their work cut-out controlling South Africa here.

I expect New Zealand will be attacking South Africa in two main areas - in the air, and close to the breakdown. Aaron Smith's box-kicking game has been much improved this season - Ben Smith in particular has put a lot of pressure on the opposition in the air over the last couple of weeks. He doesn't always win the ball cleanly, but he has forced the opposition into a lot of mistakes, or knocked the ball back to supporting All Blacks. South Africa's defense is pretty impressive, but there are a few gaps in close to the base of the breakdown. The outside defenders push up quickly, but some of South Africa's bigger forwards (J du Plessis and Alberts in particular) don't have the lateral speed on defense to cover the gap close to the breakdown. I expect Aaron Smith will be encouraged to have a few darts around the base of the breakdown, while Cruden and Dagg/Smith (if the shift into first receiver) could cause some issues if they run hard at the line.

Overall I'm picking it to be a cracking game, and I'm finding it a very difficult game to call. I will pick the AB's by 5, but it wouldn't surprise me if it went the other way.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Faumuina has improved his scrummaging a lot over the last couple of years, but as others have mentioned his scrummaging is not as strong as some other aspects of his game. He is certainly not a poor scrummager, but he is certainly not in the same league as Owen Franks (when he is 100% fit) at scrum time. The AB's scrum is certainly not as strong as it has been in the past - Woodcock and Hore are past their best, Coles is not renowned as a powerful scrummager, Crockett is a penalty magnet, and the AB's are lacking a powerful scrummaging TH lock with Thorn gone and Romano injured (Retallick is a phenomenal talent, but is still growing into the TH lock role).

However.... I'm still not convinced that South Africa have scrum to exploit the AB's weakness. The AB's have generally matched (or bettered) the same South African front row over the last few years - obviously the new laws could make a difference, however I'm not convinced South Africa will have as much of an edge at scrum time as many are predicting (indeed I expect the scrums to be very even). Though I'm not a big fan of Van der Merwe he is known as a powerful scrummager, so I feel it will be missed at scrum time.

It is another set-piece - the lineout - that I'm more worried about. Our lineout hasn't been as efficient this season as it has been over the last two years, and I expect South Africa will target it (Etzebeth and Kruger are both superb lineout exponents in my opinion). South Africa's lineout has been brilliant this season, and their rolling maul is a real weapon - the AB's will have their work cut-out controlling South Africa here.

I expect New Zealand will be attacking South Africa in two main areas - in the air, and close to the breakdown. Aaron Smith's box-kicking game has been much improved this season - Ben Smith in particular has put a lot of pressure on the opposition in the air over the last couple of weeks. He doesn't always win the ball cleanly, but he has forced the opposition into a lot of mistakes, or knocked the ball back to supporting All Blacks. South Africa's defense is pretty impressive, but there are a few gaps in close to the base of the breakdown. The outside defenders push up quickly, but some of South Africa's bigger forwards (J du Plessis and Alberts in particular) don't have the lateral speed on defense to cover the gap close to the breakdown. I expect Aaron Smith will be encouraged to have a few darts around the base of the breakdown, while Cruden and Dagg/Smith (if the shift into first receiver) could cause some issues if they run hard at the line.

Overall I'm picking it to be a cracking game, and I'm finding it a very difficult game to call. I will pick the AB's by 5, but it wouldn't surprise me if it went the other way.

Can't find much fault with this.

As for the Arial battle, I think the Boks will be up for it, and will use it also as we have Fourie Du Preez, who IMHO is the best boxkicker in the game. Speaking of Fourie, it would be interesting how he will run the plays, as it will be his first game vs. NZ since his return.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I will be satisfied with a Bok win, be it 39-38 or 6-3.
Think us Saffas is getting ahead of ourselves, yes we are on a up but some distance from the top still.
If we do the the unthinkable and score 4 tries and beat the Blacks by 8+ them hell great but from where I sit now I don't think we are peaking yet

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Something very important that hasn't been mentioned is the crowd's involvement. The NZ crowd in Eden Park oohed!! and ahhed!! in a very big way at every perceived little thing and I am of the opinion the ref got influenced by this big time. So I am hoping for the Ellis Park crowd to go one up on the Eden Park crowd and see how much they can press Mr Owen (who is unfortunately not as impressionable as Poite seems to be).

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

well lets hope the SA crowd actually use their own vocal cords instead of those vuvuzelas haha like watching rugby while someone in the house is vacuuming, damn annoying.