[2013 TRC] South Africa vs. Argentina in Soweto (17/08/2013)

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Soccer City, Soweto (17/08/2013, 16:00 GMT)

Referee: Chris Pollock

Assistants: Pascal Gauzère

& John Lacey

Television match official: Eric Gauzins

South Africa
15. Willie le Roux, 14. Bjorn Basson, 13. JJ Engelbrecht, 12. Jean de Villiers (captain), 11. Bryan Habana, 10. Morné Steyn, 9. Ruan Pienaar, 8. Duane Vermeulen, 7. Willem Alberts, 6. Francois Louw, 5. Juandré Kruger, 4. Eben Etzebeth, 3. Jannie du Plessis, 2. Adriaan Strauss, 1. Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements: 16. Bismarck du Plessis, 17. Gurthrö Steenkamp, 18. Coenie Oosthuizen, 19. Flip van der Merwe, 20. Siya Kolisi, 21. Fourie du Preez, 22. Pat Lambie, 23. Jan Serfontein

Argentina
15. Juan Martin Hernandez, 14. Gonzalo Camacho, 13. Marcelo Bosch, 12. Felipe Contepomi (captain), 11. Juan Imhoff, 10. Nicolas Sanchez, 9. Martin Landajo, 8. Leonardo Senatore, 7. Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6. Pablo Matera, 5. Patricio Albacete, 4. Manuel Carizza, 3. Matias Diaz, 2. Eusebio Guinazu, 1. Juan Figallo
Replacements: 16. Agustin Creevy, 17. Nahuel Lobo, 18. Juan Pablo Orlandi, 19. Mariano Galarza, 20. Julio Farias Cabello, 21. Tomas Cubelli, 22. Santiago Fernandez, 23. Horacio Agulla

 

[Gavin]

Los Pumas to win, I hope

 

[Big Ewis]

i Vamos Argentina !

Tough way to start for the Pumas. And given the latest results, there's no way to get a really good idea of what'll happen here I'd reckon...

Haven't seen the real Pumas since November, and even that last match in Ireland was just a bit ridiculous (SEVEN tries ?). As for the Boks, they haven't played a worthy adversary since November 2012 as well. That quadrangular thing was more confusing as sht than anything: crushing Italy late in the game, having tremendous difficulty against a weakened Scotland side, and then crushing Samoa that showed to be very capable prior to that...

Don't even know at this point who has the advantage in the scrum. SA got DESTROYED in June by Italy, but how's the Argie scrum these days ?..
Hopefully we'll see a nice free-flowing game here, though I doubt it; while both teams may have good back play, I'd imagine this to be a grind-out up front game of wills.
2 tries to 1 SA, and a 10pt SA win ?..

 

[sifplay]

Hopefully the Bargies will play for 80 minutes and not only 60 minutes this year.

i Vamos Argentina !

Tough way to start for the Pumas. And given the latest results, there's no way to get a really good idea of what'll happen here I'd reckon...

Haven't seen the real Pumas since November, and even that last match in Ireland was just a bit ridiculous (SEVEN tries ?). As for the Boks, they haven't played a worthy adversary since November 2012 as well. That quadrangular thing was more confusing as sht than anything: crushing Italy late in the game, having tremendous difficulty against a weakened Scotland side, and then crushing Samoa that showed to be very capable prior to that...

Don't even know at this point who has the advantage in the scrum. SA got DESTROYED in June by Italy, but how's the Argie scrum these days ?..
Hopefully we'll see a nice free-flowing game here, though I doubt it; while both teams may have good back play, I'd imagine this to be a grind-out up front game of wills.
2 tries to 1 SA, and a 10pt SA win ?..

Samoa surely must be a worthy advisory? Scotland as well?

 

[SelimNiai]

Uh oh, Chris "The Pillock" Pollock reffing, prepare for a shambolic display of managing the breakdown

 

[sifplay]

Pollock came back from almost a hundred operations. He might not have been mentally and physically fit and up to standard yet after the lay off. But there won't be that much rucks anyways from a SA perspective. We prefer Le Boot

 

[Aspry]

What is good of being an underdog is that many neutral fans will cheer for you

 

[Big Ewis]

Hopefully the Bargies will play for 80 minutes and not only 60 minutes this year.


Samoa surely must be a worthy advisory? Scotland as well?

Oh I have to disagree with you there sifplay, I don't think Samoa really has too much great advice to give...Scotland, maybe so.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Marcos Ayerza and JM Fernandez Lobbe could miss this RC debut for muscle injuries.
I think it will be an entertaining match with Argentina attacking especially with the backs, and a pack of forwards with a modest performance (Crevy is the only salvageable with Albacete)
On the defensive I see a very sluggish performance overall, especially in the tackle.
Final score SA 40 Arg 20.

 

[Jaguares]

What would be the SA team? Perhaps something like this:

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Adriaan Strauss
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Flip van der Merwe
6 Siya Kolisi
7 Willem Alberts
8 Francois Louw
9 Ruan Pienaar
10 Morné Steyn/Pat Lambie
11 Bjorn Basson
12 Jean de Villiers (c)
13 JJ Engelbrecht
14 Bryan Habana
15 Willie le Roux

 

[SomeOke]

What would be the SA team? Perhaps something like this:

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Adriaan Strauss
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Flip van der Merwe
6 Siya Kolisi
7 Willem Alberts
8 Francois Louw
9 Ruan Pienaar
10 Morné Steyn/Pat Lambie
11 Bjorn Basson
12 Jean de Villiers (c)
13 JJ Engelbrecht
14 Bryan Habana
15 Willie le Roux

Just about exactly right I'd imagine. Loose trio may look difference, we might have a different wing but something like that.
Is Arno Botha back? Spies? JP Petersen? I haven't been keeping up with the news.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The following players were not considered due to injury; Frans Malherbe, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Arno Botha, Pierre Spies, Francois Hougaard, Johan Goosen, Jaco Taute and François Steyn

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The following players were not considered due to injury; Frans Malherbe, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Arno Botha, Pierre Spies, Francois Hougaard, Johan Goosen, Jaco Taute and François Steyn

So does that mean JP is fit? Maybe for an appearance later on in the tourney? I really hope so because I've not been overly impressed with Basson. Botha and Goosen are big pities because they've shown they can flourish at this level but now are missing out on the opportunity to build on their experience. S

pies and Hougaard have had their chances IMO and Hougaard and Frans Steyn could come back into contention if they work on their game; both have huge potential but somehow... I think Hougaard is overcoached and Steyn overweight.

Taute, Malherbe and Du Toit (Goosen to a lesser extent as well) still have something to prove in SR IMO, I just hope injury has not done for Taute; you see so many promising guys not recover fully from injury and Taute has had some horrendous luck with injury (Goosen as well).

EDIT; sad how we accept Burger and Smith are never gonna be included again. A tough way to say goodbye. And HM seems dead set to ignore Brussow no matter what and with Louw signing on for Bath for another 3 YEARS!!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Pietersen is currently playing in Japan for Panasonic Wild Knights. I don't think he will be called up. Fourie du Preez is the exception from the TOP League and the only Bok in the current squad actually playing in the land of the rising sun.

When it comes to the wings, we have to work with what we've got. Outside the 2 wingers selected (how the hell do you select 2 wingers?) we have Mvovo who is closest to being called up for that position.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So does that mean JP is fit? Maybe for an appearance later on in the tourney? I really hope so because I've not been overly impressed with Basson. Botha and Goosen are big pities because they've shown they can flourish at this level but now are missing out on the opportunity to build on their experience. S

pies and Hougaard have had their chances IMO and Hougaard and Frans Steyn could come back into contention if they work on their game; both have huge potential but somehow... I think Hougaard is overcoached and Steyn overweight.

Taute, Malherbe and Du Toit (Goosen to a lesser extent as well) still have something to prove in SR IMO, I just hope injury has not done for Taute; you see so many promising guys not recover fully from injury and Taute has had some horrendous luck with injury (Goosen as well).

EDIT; sad how we accept Burger and Smith are never gonna be included again. A tough way to say goodbye. And HM seems dead set to ignore Brussow no matter what and with Louw signing on for Bath for another 3 YEARS!!

JP is in Japan, and will not be available for selection. I'm very curious to see how the team will look like...

Here's my team:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Jean De Villiers
14. JJ Engelbrecht
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Guthro Steenkamp
17. Coenie Oosthuizen
18. Adriaan Strauss
19. Flip van Der Merwe
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Fourie Du Preez
22. Pat Lambie
23. Zane Kirchner/Juan De Jongh

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Pietersen is currently playing in Japan for Panasonic Wild Knights. I don't think he will be called up. Fourie du Preez is the exception from the TOP League and the only Bok in the current squad actually playing in the land of the rising sun.

When it comes to the wings, we have to work with what we've got. Outside the 2 wingers selected (how the hell do you select 2 wingers?) we have Mvovo who is closest to being called up for that position.

JP is in Japan, and will not be available for selection. I'm very curious to see how the team will look like...

Here's my team:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Jano Vermaak
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Jean De Villiers
14. JJ Engelbrecht
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Guthro Steenkamp
17. Coenie Oosthuizen
18. Adriaan Strauss
19. Flip van Der Merwe
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Fourie Du Preez
22. Pat Lambie
23. Zane Kirchner/Juan De Jongh

Thanks, guys. I forgot I read somewhere that JP is earning something like 4 times what he had prior to this stint in Nippon. I would look outside our current SR wingers (which is a big.. how do you spell endightment?.. on how we pick our backs IMO) at centers or FBs who could make an impact at the wing. That's why my preferred 23 looks a lot like yours, Hein except I've got 12JdV, 13JJE and 14Serfontein.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Thanks, guys. I forgot I read somewhere that JP is earning something like 4 times what he had prior to this stint in Nippon. I would look outside our current SR wingers (which is a big.. how do you spell endightment?.. on how we pick our backs IMO) at centers or FBs who could make an impact at the wing. That's why my preferred 23 looks a lot like yours, Hein except I've got 12JdV, 13JJE and 14Serfontein.

Jan Serfontein is too slow to be a wing... he has never played there before... Maybe you mixed Jan and JJ up.

Between Jean and Jan at centre, it doesn't really matter to me who plays where, as both are the same type of centre...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Jan Serfontein is too slow to be a wing... he has never played there before... Maybe you mixed Jan and JJ up.

Between Jean and Jan at centre, it doesn't really matter to me who plays where, as both are the same type of centre...

I didn't mix them up and I hear what you're saying and my picks will never be implemented in any case (and lets all be glad of that); that's just my personal feelings of where their abilities might be best suited and the fact that I don't want to mess with JdV and JJ yet seeing as JJ is playing better and better at 13 and we're stuck with JdV for now (while he's not in the worst of form TBH) but would rather see Serfontein on the field ahead of Basson and an utility on the bench. If only to keep Serfontein in the mix and used to test rugby like we did with Jean when he started out. Serfontein is no slouch though!; maybe not Habana or Basson quick but he still has a lot to offer there IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I didn't mix them up and I hear what you're saying and my picks will never be implemented in any case (and lets all be glad of that); that's just my personal feelings of where their abilities might be best suited and the fact that I don't want to mess with JdV and JJ yet seeing as JJ is playing better and better at 13 and we're stuck with JdV for now (while he's not in the worst of form TBH) but would rather see Serfontein on the field ahead of Basson and an utility on the bench. If only to keep Serfontein in the mix and used to test rugby like we did with Jean when he started out. Serfontein is no slouch though!; maybe not Habana or Basson quick but he still has a lot to offer there IMO.

Yeah, I agree on JJ.

That makes me wonder if Jean might move out to the wing? Or Jan will be on the bench... But with only Habana and Basson as the real out and out wingers in the group, something tells me that JJ, Willie or Jean will be moved to the wing at some stage...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well I have heard that Jean's time fir the 100m is the fastest it has been ATM. Don't know if his speed over the first 10m is that great but I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the wing either. He was terrible there last time out though.. more so on defense ITO his positioning than anything else; you could see he was used to being more in the thick of things and did not have the... patience in defense of a wing.

When defending an overlap you either have to be dead certain to get the man and ball (or at least hit the man so hard that he has no chance of offloading) if you rush up or trust your speed to 'shepherd' the ball to the side line which is what I usually did unless they had close to half the field's width to work with. That being said you'd expect in test rugby that the ball will always win so maybe I'm being too harsh on Jean